DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: Adnoh on November 13, 2010, 08:37:59 AM
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I'm looking to get a set of 14" or 16" fox 2.0 remote coil overs. Is there any information out there on compression and rebound rates when ordering. or is there a work sheet of any kind or is it trial and error. The shock are gona be put on the rear of my pilot pretty light weight around 750 with driver.
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I just printed out the fox shim charts for bump/droop dampening percentages last night. A bit hard to find but it's on Fox's site. As to what percentage to start from it's a crap shoot IMO.
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I'll look agian. I have a dyno chart of the shock I'm using now so I can use it as a guide. Thanks
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Valving chart for 2.0's http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/20_SERIES_VALVING_SPECS.pdf
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Thank you. It does help.
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So what is the realistic time for making a valving change.
Besides the basic tools do you need a vice?
You would need to be able to recharge the nitrogen? Does anyone do that at LS?
And how big of a difference is #5 gonna make?
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we do all take n2 with us to the dunes and that's the easy part but as far as re-valving we get close at home then when we get back we make the changes but it could be done at the dunes at least on 2.0 air or 2.5 air and that does include 2.0- 2.5 coil assist air also. those I can speak for personally!
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Valving chart for 2.0's http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/20_SERIES_VALVING_SPECS.pdf
oh ya this is good info! I have shim staks left over from re-valving I can get creative with now!! ;D
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Valving changes will require shock removal,a vise is invaluable,shock disassembly and reassembly and replacing on vehicle. Realistically you'll see 20-30 minutes minimum per shock IMO. Yes nitrogen will have to be recharged. I know of no one that does shock work at LS. #5?
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Valving changes will require shock removal,a vise is invaluable,shock disassembly and reassembly and replacing on vehicle. Realistically you'll see 20-30 minutes minimum per shock IMO. Yes nitrogen will have to be recharged. I know of no one that does shock work at LS. #5?
The chart goes in #5 increments. #30, #35, #40 If you were bottoming hard would you change by #20? I suppose that there would be no way to quantify it with different weights ratios etc.
Can you post up where yours are at Fabr? I never saw when I got my shocks if they told what the factory setting was.
It is probably also not linear. Like on my rear the shock will be connected directly to the wheel carrier. If someone else had their shock mounted at 75% of their trailing arm length. Would that ratio get you close?
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The chart goes in #5 increments. #30, #35, #40 If you were bottoming hard would you change by #20? I suppose that there would be no way to quantify it with different weights ratios etc.
Can you post up where yours are at Fabr? I never saw when I got my shocks if they told what the factory setting was.
It is probably also not linear. Like on my rear the shock will be connected directly to the wheel carrier. If someone else had their shock mounted at 75% of their trailing arm length. Would that ratio get you close?
Factory valving should be engraved on the lower shaft mount. On a 2.0, its usually hidden under the o-ring (like "50/70" for example). On a 2.5 its in the same location, although sometimes tricky to read because of the overlap of the shaft. (not much room there for the engraving)
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And how big of a difference is #5 gonna make?
I started with 30-90, then changed my rebound on my Fox Airs 2.0 from 90 to 65, and didn't feel it, but that was with a month between the before and after rides. I've always said I don't have that sensitive of "seat of the pants", though. If you were at the dunes, then did the change there, I still doubt you'd feel a change of 5. I would do changes of 20, myself.
Ideally, I'd pull into the pits and have a crew bolt on a different set of shocks already set up with the new valving without getting out of the buggy. Then I figure I'd have the best chance to feel the difference.
The other thing about revalving at the dunes would be keeping sand out of the process. Draining and refilling the oil, as well as all the oily parts, presents a lot of oportunity to pick up contaminants.
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I started with 30-90, then changed my rebound on my Fox Airs 2.0 from 90 to 65, and didn't feel it, but that was with a month between the before and after rides. I've always said I don't have that sensitive of "seat of the pants", though. If you were at the dunes, then did the change there, I still doubt you'd feel a change of 5. I would do changes of 20, myself.
Ideally, I'd pull into the pits and have a crew bolt on a different set of shocks already set up with the new valving without getting out of the buggy. Then I figure I'd have the best chance to feel the difference.
The other thing about revalving at the dunes would be keeping sand out of the process. Draining and refilling the oil, as well as all the oily parts, presents a lot of oportunity to pick up contaminants.
Yah that is the problem. Going home and making the change then coming back a week to two weeks later is going to be hard to compare.
I guess I need some dirt tires to do some terrace jumping to get close.
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I started with 30-90, then changed my rebound on my Fox Airs 2.0 from 90 to 65, and didn't feel it, but that was with a month between the before and after rides. I've always said I don't have that sensitive of "seat of the pants", though. If you were at the dunes, then did the change there, I still doubt you'd feel a change of 5. I would do changes of 20, myself.
Ideally, I'd pull into the pits and have a crew bolt on a different set of shocks already set up with the new valving without getting out of the buggy. Then I figure I'd have the best chance to feel the difference.
The other thing about revalving at the dunes would be keeping sand out of the process. Draining and refilling the oil, as well as all the oily parts, presents a lot of oportunity to pick up contaminants.
Ya,I agree. I'd probably go in 10# diffs myself. my shocks are factory 50/50 I think. They are too soft on bump and seem to be about rught on rebound. But there are many factors that will make big differences in how much a #10 change will make . Just one is motion ratio. Every car will be different. On one such as mine the rear shocks are at around a 80 degree angle to the arms but on the front they cary frommaybe 60 degreeto 90 degree. Same # change in back will be a totally different animal on the front due th the progressive motion ratio up front. Soooo.......it's truly trial and error. If I had to do valving changes at the dunes I'd NOT do it in the open. In the trailer with the AC on only.No blowing sand needs to get inside the shock.
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The chart goes in #5 increments. #30, #35, #40 If you were bottoming hard would you change by #20? I suppose that there would be no way to quantify it with different weights ratios etc.
Can you post up where yours are at Fabr? I never saw when I got my shocks if they told what the factory setting was.
It is probably also not linear. Like on my rear the shock will be connected directly to the wheel carrier. If someone else had their shock mounted at 75% of their trailing arm length. Would that ratio get you close?
I haven't really done a thing since the LS trip. Been wayyyyyy too busy at work. What we need to do is for several of us plan a true test and chassis tune weekend . All go out and make some whoops runs and observe/vid others cars. Go back to cam ,review vids and then someone/s remove/reinstall shocke while someone/s are doing valving changes. Take some spare components just in case. we could all chip in on a couple of sets of shim kitsw maybe? How close are you to getting yours done? Have you been been doing a stealth build? LOL!!!!!
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My build log may not be quite up to date. ;)
But I have been busier than heck as well.
If you are going to do it I would be glad to help. I can take shocks on and off, and observe the inner shock surgery to see what I am in for. rofl
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Ya,I agree. I'd probably go in 10# diffs myself.
Yup, I should have added, "You may find yourself needing to pull them back apart to back track if making changes of 20". Also, the shocks I was tuning are on a ATV Racing long travel kit on a Honda Pilot, which has the shocks nearly vertical. I believe the motion ratio is 1:1. I not sure, but my pea brain thinks changes will be less pronounced with that ratio.
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Maybe this will help you. My Revolt is 850lbs without me in it. I believe my shocks are set up 120/90 from fox. I got alot of body roll out of it so I added 30cc of oil which helped a lot and lowered my ride height but also helped on landings. I pumped up the nitrogen pressure by 40 lbs when I rode at LS versus where I normally ride. You really must have a Nitrogen set up if you have these shocks. I think I put my rig together for about $200.00. I would just call Fox and tell them what you have and they can suggest a starting point for you. They will revalve them for free once after you have bought them so you can get a second set of valves for free if you do that.
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I don't think that you are right on the valving you have. Fox runs their system on percentages of dampening fro 10%to 90%. 100% would lock the shock theoretically. I may be wrong but that's the way I understand it.
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Is oil level a variable for the coil over shocks as well? And viscosity?
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Oil levle no and viscosity yes on shocks with rezzies. The airs use oil and gas as an adjustments used in conjustion with the shim while coil over use spring rates and transitions /pre load collors. Gas pressure can be a slight varible in coil overs to the point of cavation. It's harder to dial out body role with airs with out changing ride height than with coil overs and transition spacers ( on dual rate set up) and compressiion adjusters. This refering to slow shaft speed ( low speed ) good for body role and woops.
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Why is it that nobody tries different weights of oil? Is 5w the only weight Fox recommends?
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My build log may not be quite up to date. ;)
But I have been busier than heck as well.
If you are going to do it I would be glad to help. I can take shocks on and off, and observe the inner shock surgery to see what I am in for. rofl
I posted this over a year ago for the 2.0 fox shock guys.
http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=1051.0 (http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=1051.0)
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2.0 coil overs are pretty much the same thing. Minor differences. If you can do one you know how to get the other kind done.
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Make sure to take a temp gun with you to log the numbers. If you traction increases due to better valving than the temp should so up. The heat increase means the shock is working more and not skipping over the bumps. Than you can compare the numbes to the viscosity of the fluid. The non rezzie shock should have a higher heat reading than a rezzie if pushed long enough. One can also take different reading for longer and short section and and see if the shock damping will loose some of its effectivness as the heat builds warrenting a viscosity change.
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Why is it that nobody tries different weights of oil? Is 5w the only weight Fox recommends?
I forgot to mention that. I went to a 5W oil as well instead of the 0 weight or whatever Fox uses, it is very thin.
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I don't think that you are right on the valving you have. Fox runs their system on percentages of dampening fro 10%to 90%. 100% would lock the shock theoretically. I may be wrong but that's the way I understand it.
You are probably correct. I was going from memory of what I thought I was told about a year ago. The 30cc of heavier weight oil helped me so much I moved back to the clutching and turbo issues at hand. I will try and check it out again.