DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Member Project Logs => Topic started by: Odyknuck on January 19, 2010, 10:50:53 AM
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I have taken a break from the Turbo Buggy to get back to work on another Long travel Pilot mini Buggy. I started this 2 years ago and it got shelved to build the Woodsbuggy. Then shelved another year to do the Subie Motor Swap. The other Long travel Pilot has a 75 HP 500 cc 2 stroke motor in it. My wife drove it and now somehow its hers. Funny how that happens. So not to be out run by the Wife unit I have to build this one with a 700 CC 126 HP Rotax. I have streached the frame to make more room for the new motor and to give me moro stability with the additional HP and speed. The original roll cage would not fit after that and is to weak in my opion so I built a new one.
Here are some progress pics:
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/ (http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/)
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Do you do anything to the carb return springs on the Rotax engines to make the throttle effort easier? I find the throttle on my 670 is gonna be too stiff for lengthy use.
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I have not got that far yet. All the guys I know have the same complaint. I suggest removing the spring the thumb throttle for starters. There is plenty of spring pull on the Sled motor carbs to not have worry about that spring. I am considering a foot throttle however I have not made the decision yet. I have toyed with the Ideal of a bell crank to Increase the leverage ratio however you would need to push the thumb throttle farther. I dont know yet if there is enough lattude to do that. I have also thought about spring assist however that gets tricky to balance. The last thing you want is a stuck throttle on a 100 Plus HP motor.
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Looking good! Looks like the cage work is done. Are you building new suspension? Is this a new conversion to the Rotax motor? Why did you build a whole new upper cage? Strength, saftey structure?
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In the process of steaching the frame it also got wider as you went back so the Bolt on cage would have need to be modified a lot to make it fit. Also After watching one crush in front of me on a ride a few years back i decided to make one out of 1 3/8" .095 DOM in lieu of the OEM .062 ERW. Yes I will be building new long travel for the rear w/ Fox 10" Coil overs and using one of Aftershock motorsports long travel kits with Works Coilovers on the front. My other Long travel Pilot is using the same front and rear setups and work well. Except the rear has Axis Shocks.
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Got the radiator and Air Filter mounted over the Weekend. Also made new Acetel Trans mount Bushings.
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/ (http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/)
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Tell me more about that air filter.
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The Air Filter is a 4 stage design with an Inlet turbine to throw out the majority of dirt and water before it hits the filter media. One of my riding Buddies tryed one of these in his Woodsbuggy with great sucess. His is the earlyer version with the bolt on Turbine. Here is the link to the Manufacture. BTW you can buy direct.
http://www.enginaire.com/integrated.htm (http://www.enginaire.com/integrated.htm)
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Cool,thanks for the link.
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Approx what cost was yours?
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Weekend updates:
Mocked up a cardboard gas tank so I could weld the mounts on, Modified the Exhaust expansion chamber to fit the application. Ordered a new custom silenser from AAEN today. Did I say welding sheet metal is a pain? Made Tree bar mounts and welded them in. Added "X" bracing on the front. The stock Pilot lower "A" arm section is a poor design in the front and can and will bend on a full weight corner hit. Been there done that.
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/ (http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/)
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Approx what cost was yours?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^?????????
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If your asking the cost of the Air filter it was around $140.00
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Not bad for a good filter/prefilter that does a good job of keeping clean air available. I was looking at their sizing chart and it appears it needs to be HUGE for a turbo busa. Am I missing something? I guess I COULD call them huh? Well,there's another thing i need to get done. drowning
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BTW ,I am quite interested it one if they're not huge for the busa.
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What CFM did you calculate? Assumming the Busa is at 1300 cc w/ a 1.6 VE at 6K RPM I come up with 220 CFM. That would put you into a 3" unit that has the same dimensions as mine. They offer the 4" that is 10" in dia. and about 18" long that would surley handel the Busa. Keep in mind you want to size it close so the turbine spins fast enough to spit the dirt out.
Not bad for a good filter/prefilter that does a good job of keeping clean air available. I was looking at their sizing chart and it appears it needs to be HUGE for a turbo busa. Am I missing something? I guess I COULD call them huh? Well,there's another thing i need to get done. drowning
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The busa turns 12,500 rpm though. You do the sizing according to max rpm don't you? The 10x18 wouldn't be so bad but any more than that it becomes a packaging issue.
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Oops! Yes you would size it for max RPM. That would put you in to the 5" series and it would be 32" long. Are you actully running the motor at its peak? I would call the supplier and talk with them. The max of 10 "WC shown on the chart equates to only a .3609 PSI pressure drop thru the filter. Thats not much. You could probably use the 4" and still be ok. The velocity would be higher however still acceptable and not impede performance. You would need to know what the max turbine RPM is however.
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No, I would not be running iut at its' peak unless on long fast runs but that's not the point. I agree I should call them directly. Just got to get time.
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Oops! Yes you would size it for max RPM. That would put you in to the 5" series and it would be 32" long. Are you actully running the motor at its peak? I would call the supplier and talk with them. The max of 10 "WC shown on the chart equates to only a .3609 PSI pressure drop thru the filter. Thats not much. You could probably use the 4" and still be ok. The velocity would be higher however still acceptable and not impede performance. You would need to know what the max turbine RPM is however.
You lost me there.
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The VLR air cleaner has a Turbine (fan) built into it to expel the dirt before it hits the filter. I assumme it has a critical RPM before it goes Kaboom. The motor vaccumme spins it, so if your outside its range then it could be a problem. That would be a question for the Manufacture.
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That turbine does not turn. It is stationary.It makes the air swirl to form a vortex that expels the debris before it gets to the element. At least that's how all have been that I've seen on heavy equipment.
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Yes it has an actual mechanical turbine that spins. Your probably thinking of the McDonnel series that does not have one.
That turbine does not turn. It is stationary.It makes the air swirl to form a vortex that expels the debris before it gets to the element. At least that's how all have been that I've seen on heavy equipment.
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Currently eyeing off the girlfriends Dyson vacuum...
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Yes it has an actual mechanical turbine that spins. Your probably thinking of the McDonnel series that does not have one.
Really!?! Post up a pic! I'm getting more interested all the time.
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Got the frame back from the powder coater over the week end. Ready for assembly now.
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/ (http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/)
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The required Trans output shaft bearing is discontinued and had to find a replacement for it. I was able get a wider one that required machining .118" of the flange it rides against. The recieved the replacement 17mm wider bearing and installed it. As it turns out there was just enough clearence to install the shifter paw with the bearing in. I trimmed .118" off the shaft to accomadate the wider bearing and all looks good to go. Well with the exception of I am not pleased with the excessive play in the new bearing. My experience with ball bearings is they tend to have a zero to a slight side play in the inner race, however this one allows me to rock the shaft about an 1/8". I also discovered the main shaft seals are discontinued and had to find replacements for them too.
Bearing Installed with shifter Paw clearence
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru325.jpg&hash=d114e09443ac44b94d7b7c1d7e29a2ad4ce2446f)
Bearing Installed with shifter Paw clearence
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru324.jpg&hash=35ea7f6766b6b1b376ef1fc26169ab9adfa20842)
Shaft trimmed down
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru326.jpg&hash=d353d51b66eada74225100bc8a9232dacdcf653a)
New Main Shaft replacement seals with 2 options for the right side shown on the left.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru328.jpg&hash=64d77167bebd7e825f4405c557e6a67c05c909da)
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Weekend Updates, Completed Trans assembly with new 2 piece Driven clutch shaft and Gas Tank.
Installation complete.
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/ (http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72/Odyknuck/Pilot%20Build/)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru332.jpg&hash=3a2479a71965258c14ce8b1bafd96ac6572e197d)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru335.jpg&hash=590e55cd101d444a7cbf0e046f7a0e36b639dea3)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru331.jpg&hash=a7035af5cd7d8b64fdbeea94501ee5a214b328d3)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru330.jpg&hash=e51765752cba4bf0dbb671b75065f6dc520072f5)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru329.jpg&hash=fcdd16bee53d75aa1e66efc2f236eab02ebbc50c)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru334.jpg&hash=3609d87271a271f22e995754c5f800bae6a8e779)
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Very nice install!
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Thanks, It certainly did not come without its trials and tribulations :-[ :o lol. After working thru all the bearing issues on the trans I get it Installed and discovered that my Driven clutch would not clear the frame and trans primary shaft. Even with all the pre measuring to determine were to split the 2 piece shaft I was 3/8" to long for clearence. So my solution was to remove 3/8" off the clutch wear it slides onto the shaft. I made a split arbor so I could chuck up the driven clutch in the lathe and removed 3/8". I then made an additional spacer to make up for the 3/8" I removed as shown near the trans. Allways something!
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Thanks, It certainly did not come without its trials and tribulations :-[ :o lol. After working thru all the bearing issues on the trans I get it Installed and discovered that my Driven clutch would not clear the frame and trans primary shaft. Even with all the pre measuring to determine were to split the 2 piece shaft I was 3/8" to long for clearence. So my solution was to remove 3/8" off the clutch wear it slides onto the shaft. I made a split arbor so I could chuck up the driven clutch in the lathe and removed 3/8". I then made an additional spacer to make up for the 3/8" I removed as shown near the trans. Allways something!
Very true my friend!
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Project Updates:
Motor tork stop assembly
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru337.jpg&hash=d2118b3fd109c43da4e380630641e0b000b13a8a)
Motor tork stop assembly Installed
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru338.jpg&hash=2aa276f1599ea04ab7fbd497da2f545083053d07)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru339.jpg&hash=ca7d1b79af150362a7ef69aa3bd57ef2d95d8adb)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru345.jpg&hash=a113bd51830ae89743dca691afb731c9cb716547)
New Laser cut Rotor Installed
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru343.jpg&hash=dfffee8f492a74b8177640122b410139ac10edec)
Long Travel Front suspension Installed
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru349.jpg&hash=858853e6a918831bd22d56bf3f151a9fe5777d9a)
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Exhaust System Installed
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru353.jpg&hash=886833b47943811ef411f0362c96fb892406b61b)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru356.jpg&hash=70f47fb4760ea9ef0fd2b964b27f08e8ee8a083e)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm72%2FOdyknuck%2FPilot%2520Build%2FPilotSubaru354.jpg&hash=b8f846dbccba2b3ee7314fe54ed28f1fa1e369b3)