DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Member Project Logs => Topic started by: Boomer-61 on November 10, 2009, 03:39:37 PM
-
Pitiful thing.
-
tell us more.
-
This buggy is an evolution. It started life as a Yerf Dog go kart packing a 6hp engine. That morphed into a 9hp, bigger shocks, disc brake etc until my son and I were out driving that set up. Now the only thing left from the original kart is the floor pan. I've been collecting parts for it for about 5 years and have a Yamaha FZR 600 in the shed as a power plant. I ran accross a great bargain on an industrial motor, the water cooled Kawasaki 750cc. My first set of plans came from Desert Karts but that has morphed into a Double Down'esque rig. The buggy is intended to be a woods buggy so the DD set up may not be the best but I like they way he thinks and builds. I'm at the point of getting the engine on and hooking up the power to the rear wheel. But I had a set back when I couldn't get the driven clutch off of a donor kart I bought. After much adu the clutch was damaged and now I'm scrambling to find a new clutch. That's the Readers Digest version.
-
Goodies be on their way soon ;D
-
Don't look like no pickles to me.
-
;D YUP AND A STICKER TOO :o
-
No pickles! What the... Deal's off! Ha!
Man does not live by pickles alone.
-
;D
-
Since Carl's going to be there I sent you some of his....... :-*
I got something in the mail today ;D
-
:nw 9: Hair on fire
-
No pickles! What the... Deal's off! Ha!
Man does not live by pickles alone.
We don't?
-
No comment until I taste those beasties for myself. ;D
-
Gratutious plug.
Those are some really, really good pickles. Did you try the beans?
-
FABR'S AFRAID OF GREEN THINGS ;D
In all fairness it was my Chiropractor that got me to whip up the zippy beans...
-
engine
-
I've got a question about the A-arms. See the attached. I have a problem, the bottom A-arm wont fit. What are the difficulties in turning the heim joints 90 degrees. Can I build an arm out from the spindle so my arms clear the rims or will that totally bungle up the steering geometry?
-
I can't tell what's hitting. The lower Heim bolt hitting rim/wheel?
-
Yes the bolt head of the lower A-arm is hitting the rim. I can change things around a bit here and there but one word of advice I got a while back is that I should turn my heims so the holes are aligned fore and aft. As you can see by how deep the arms project into the rims I can't really to that with this exact set up. I've seen others build their spindles with attachments for the heims that curve outside the hubs, inboard. I can do that but I thought that would adversely affect steering. Am I wrong?
-
Hey I know that assembly ;D
I think by looking at the pic you may be able to shave down the Hi-mis spacer and get the clearance you need...
Looks like some more goodies are going to be changing hands pretty soon
Looks like your motor will have no problems feeding power off both ends 8)
-
Otherwise....
Geo metro steering ball joints will fit and give you enouph angle yo have 14" of travel
-
I think I'd rather shave things down a bit. Gotta stay with what I own. Gets too expensive to change to a different system. Good advice though.
-
I AIM TO PLEASE :o ;D
-
Just use about a 1/4 " thick wheel spacer.Space the wheel out.
-
That's simple, why the heck would I do something so simple? Seems like I should take something apart, destroy it and rebuild it, and waste a day in the shop. ;D Thanks.
-
8) To each his own I always say. ;D
-
those spindles look the same as mine.. and if they are, they appear to be upside down. what are they off of?
-
Their my old 250R set up off of Barb's buggy
Boom's got them on right
They have been heavily reworked
The only difference is Boom is using heim joints and I used Metro ball joints
-
well dammit... second time those dang spindles got me.. i think i thought the same thing when i was looking at your pics spec...
-
;D
-
I used ball joints too, on Yama spindles...................
-
Sexy set up Carl. What kind of travel are you getting? My A-arms will do 24" but my shocks wont.
-
16" Limited by ball joint.
-
Hey Boomer can you measure the Bolt pattern on the flywheel the small one...I want to make sure it will match up yo my output for the hydrostatic drive
-
Dilemma. See the pictures and imagine those parts in the back end of my buggy where everything is all lined up the way it's supposed to be. From the engine the clutch is a 94c mounted to the 27hp Kawi motor. The drive belt goes to the Polaris clutch on a 1" key'd jack shaft. Key'd on one end and splined on the other. The disc and jack shaft sprocket are on the splilned end and clutch on the key'd end. The jack shaft sprocket is for a 520 chain. My final drive sprocket is for a 40 series chain. I need the jack shaft sprocket to feed off of the center line of the jack shaft so it will align with my final drive sprocket which is in the center of my buggy. I have two problems: 1. the jack shaft sprocket is not in line with my final drive sprocket, 2. I have a mis match sprocket to chain. What is the best option to make all of this align and compatable?
-
Ditch the 40 series chain sprocket first off and get a keyed 50 series one,get a new piece of keyed shaft. Have keyway broached in the disc or make an adapter for it to work on the keyed shaft. Problem solved.
-
Keyed hubs and sprockets are readily available BTW
-
If I remember right we talked about cutting a keyway in the jackshaft for the front sprocket to run and leaving the disc where it is on the shaft,
That will solve all but the 40 sprocket...I know that Doug can get you hooked up with the sprocket ;D
1" keyed weld hubs are readily available too...Now is there not enouph room for the brake rotor to clear the motor?///I know you can lop the keyed end of the jackshaft off and re-key that really easily...That shaft has been shortened already
-
The problem I ran into with the jack shaft sprocket is the inside dia., it's so small it wont fit onto the 1" dia. jack shaft. To get the ratio I need, I need to run a 10 or 11 tooth sprocket. There isn't a whole lot of material to work with to weld a hub onto it. The steel is hardened on the two sprockets I bought. They are intended to fit a motorcycle so boring them up to 1' was not within my scope of tools. If I go up in teeth on the jack shaft sprocket to get to a bigger ID I start to mess with my ratios. I need to run a 70T final drive to make it work with my 24" tires. I like your ideas of keying everything, works for the most part. I've already spoken with Doug about a sprocket. Where can I get some jack shaft sprockets with a big enough inside dia. so I can weld a key'd hub to them?
-
Spec, We did talk about that and I can adjust the length of the shaft no problem. What I'm not able to do is slip that jack shaft sprocket to a more central position to get it in line with the final drive sprocket. It too is hardened steel and I'm not able to grind it out to increase the ID. I don't have a cutting torch either. I'd like to keep all this stuff key'd to make my life easier. So, where can I get some sprockets and hubs to weld up to fit a 1" dia jack shaft? the disc is fine and should be out of the way.
-
I had to custom grind and machine the one I sent you...
The other shaft I have is parked in a snowbank on the 750 :-[
-
You can shorten the shaft on the clutch end, to put the sprocket where ever you need it to be, as long as the rotor will clear your motor, The chain and secondary clutch should even out the torque on the shaft...Plus I know those bearings will take the load ;D
-
I'm having trouble seeing what your problem is. I do know that fitting a 10-11 tooth sprocket on a 1" shaft is unrealistic. You're going to have to reduce the diameter of the shaft.
If it where me.....I'd move the disc to the rear shaft next to the big sprocket, then have the shaft with the secondary turned down and keyed on the end so you can purchase a one piece sprocket and hub in the 10-11 tooth range. They are available, in fact I have one sitting out in the garage for my buggy project. I have come up with a novel solution, but will not post info on it till I complete the machining. It'll make ya say, "why didn't I think of that?"
-
10 or 11 tooth used with that huge rear sprocket is not going to give much chain wrap is it? You should have a minimum of 120 degrees wrap to prevent tooth skipping.
-
Boostin,
Look at the pics which I posted early on. The rear drive is a piece of key'd axle to which I mounted my VW transmission hubs of which are attached my CV hubs, axles and stub axles. The orientation of this unit has to be in the centerline of the buggy. The jack shaft is splined on one end to accomodate the sprocket (smallest ID) and disc (2nd smallest dia). Spec and Masterfab, this is where I'm having trouble. I like the 1" jack shaft but to get the sprocket I own from Spec the ID is too small and I'd have to spline at least half of the axle to get the sprocket to line up where I need it. I can't just shift the unit side to side, the clutch has to be in line with the primary clutch and the disc has to be way out board to clear the engine. Is turning down the jack shaft on one side and keying it the best option? Seems like there should be a better ratio or something so I can run a larger jack shaft sprocket and make this all work. Incidently, I got my numbers and ratios from the engineer at Comet before they closed.
-
Once more,first things first,check to see what chain wrap . No need to do what you want to do if you have less than 120 degrees chain wrap.You NEED to go larger and your shaft is doing you a favor by being 1" diameter and not allowing you to use a 10 or 11 tooth sprocket. Yes you will also need a larger rear sprocket to keep the ratios you want. BTW turning that shaft down smaller than 1" with all that overhang is a bad idea at best. IMO.
-
I agree about the turning down concept but I am keeping my options open. In my limited mind, bigger is better, ie the shaft. I can jump up a tooth or two and get the inside dia where I need it. That will get it to a point where chain wrap will be adequate and to fit the 1" dia shaft. Where is good source for sprockets and hubs? I have some split key'd hubs I can use I suppose but solid would be better. I still need some sprockets with a large enough ID. I see things on the different sites but they lack complete details about size, ie the two sprockets I bought in which the ID's are way too small. I can always run a tensioner/idler cog to get more wrap if need be but I'd like to avoid it to simplify things.
-
I'd get a keyway cut in the jackshaft between that brake disc and the clutch. Doesn't have to be keyed all the way only couple inches in center. Tractor Supply has keyed hubs that you weld sprocket too, 1" hub and sprocket as small as 12 teeth. Dont remember how many teeth on that final sprocket but a 70t 520 sprocket is prob 12". Might be better keeping the 40 sprocket and doing a double chain sprocket setup to keep smaller. Plus I've been wanting to see someone do it. ;D
-
Thanks Carl, you want me to be the test lab victim! ;D Yeah, I thought about that too, that big old sprocket hangs down detracting from my ground clearance. Anyone out there use a double jack shaft set up? I hate to complicate issues but if it'll work out better in the long run....
-
Carl,
I ran a lot of numbers this weekend and couldn't figure out a good combination to maintain my 7-1 ratio with the double shaft idea so I think I'm stuck with what I got. I did get the "weldasprockets" from Tractor supply. I got a couple and the smallest one for a one inch shaft is 16 tooth. They had smaller tooth counts but they wont fit a 1" axle. That changes my ratio to about a 6-1 so not a huge compromise. I do have a guy that can cut that keyway for me so I'm off and running. Thanks for your help.
-
my local bomgaars has 11tooth weld-sprockets
-
Voodoo, the problem I had with the lower tooth count sprockets is that the hole in them was too small to accomodate the mounting hub for a 1" dia axle. Do the sprockets at Bomgaars have 1" ID holes and ready for mounting on a key'd axle? The other issue I noticed is that the smaller count sprockets had such a small OD that the chain would rub on the hub. I'll do a search for Bomgaars and see what they have. It would be nice if they had one to fit my need and I could run the lower tooth count and maintain my ratios.
-
i dont think they show squat on their website.. i'll go after wokr tonite and see. i'll look if they have them for a 1" shaft, and weather a chain would rub or not.
almost forgot to ask which chain size? 40 series? i know the 11tooth ones i was looking at before were for 50series.
-
Yeah, I checked them out and you're right, no on line cataloge. I'd get both and I have both a 40 series and 50 series chain and sprocket. I'm mocking things out with the 40 series and if I get it all up and running I will eventually run the 50 series. If you verified that they have them and are in stock, I could call and have them ship'm out to me. That'd be a big help and I'd really appreciate it. I don't want you to go out of your way on my account but it'd be like someone asking me to go to Home Depot. I just need an excuse to go. ;D
-
i go to lunch here soon. i'll swing over there and see what they got. if they have what you need i can get it and ship it to ya.
-
went to bomgaars. Smallest sprocket for 1inch shaft in 40 series is 16teeth. smallest in 50 series is 13teeth. but!!! smallest sprocket there was 11teeth(cent hole of 1-1/8", which the hub for it fits a max of 7/8" shaft) you could easily bore that to 1inch.. and have the keyway made to match.
-
Thanks for looking. That's what they had at Tractor Supply and I picked up both. I even got one with a smaller hole and tried expactly what you suggest, bore it out. It's hardened steel and working it with a file for 10 minutes barely touched the steel. I think I would have to take it to a machine shop to get it bored out. But Hopefully I can get what I have to work. I just need to get it running with what I have and fart around with fine tuning later. Thanks again for checking that out for me.
-
machine shop can do it easily.
-
I'm looking for some mounting tabs for 1" dia tube steel. The hole needs to be for a 1/2" bolt. The prefered distance from the tube to the center of the hole needs to be as close to 1" as possible. I need 16 if anyone has any lying around their garage needing a new home. The other thing I need is heim joint spacers, the high offset alignment type that take the 5/8 hole in my heim down to 1/2". I need 16 of those also. If I'm not making myself clear enough I can take some picures of exactly what I need.
Thanks.
-
I bought my bushigns from this guy. the link is for tabs like you need but radius for 1.5" tube. I messaged him and he will make whatever radius ones you need. just tell him you need them to fit 1" tube. but i know my 1"PST (pipe size tube) is actually 1-1/16".
Ebay Tabs (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jeep-Rock-Crawler-16-weld-on-tabs-1-2-bore_W0QQitemZ290322775237QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item439895fcc5)
-
Thanks for the PM Boomer. I can certainly help you with these parts and be competitive. 8)
-
i figured 26$ for enough tabs to do a front or rear end was pretty darn good price.
-
It is a darn good price. I can usually do these simple tags for about $1 - $2 ea.
-
well shit!!!! i'll be ordering some tabs from ya sometime soon doug.
-
And I will make them to any specs!
-
This past weekend I was mounting the radiator. I had to put a cross member in to support the radiator. The cross member will be removable so I can get the engine out. I drilled the frame and tapped the holes to bolt the cross member on. Will that create a stress riser or is it ok. Is there a better way?
Thanks,
Boomer
-
Weaker, yes. How much depends on which tube, picture??? I would also be concerned about the threads having enough bite in the tube to stay put. There are no normal conditions in offroad.
Weld a tab-bolt onto it.
Weld a nut to tubing-thread into it.
Others???????
-
Pics please. But I'd say threads directly in tube is a bad idea at best. nono BTDT :-[ ;D ;D
-
Horrible picture but I think you can get the gist of what is going on here. What you see here is the radiator fan mount. The radiator is mounted to the tabs on either side which are welded on. But the removable cross member that the bottom of the radiator is mounted to is attached in the same screw in fashion. drowning
-
This is what I use. I saw these guys at the Fabtech show in Chicago, IL and this thing works awesome. We had to have one so we had it ordered before we left their booth.
http://www.formdrill.com/english/index.html (http://www.formdrill.com/english/index.html)
-
wow, thats neat. whats the cost on a set of bits and taps like that?
-
I don't remember off hand, but I can ask the Chief how much he paid for them. I know he'll remember, he is always reminding everyone in the shop how much everything costs. He thinks that if you know how much he paid for it you're less likely to break it. LMAO
I do think we got a deal on it though, because he bought it at Fabtech. Something like 25% off I think.
-
Guy with coolest tools wins! That would solve the striped threads issue, and I don't think that tube is a very structural member of the buggy. Some have to be in certain places just to attach crap too. After meeting Clint's wife, She is wanting that garage back one day so, that piece of robot equipment is out. nono
This is simple:
-
The formdrill is cool and makes very effective threads but I still dislike the use of threaded fasteners entering a tube. Water infiltration and rust are just one of my concerns. IMO,and it's just an opinion, is that on offroad builds we want no open tubes. Not saying I haven't done so but I avoid the practice now.
-
so ideally a tab, or a threaded inset welded in is best?
-
A closed end welded in insert or tab is what I prefer. Not saying it's the best but I like it . I used to do threaded directly into tube for small stuff but others have convinced me the water infiltration is an issue I'd like to avoid.
-
Water and rust, hmmm, hadn't thought about that. The hole/threader tool looked cool but I didn't see them using it on a hand drill. Not sure a hand drill is the best way to go, not very precise. Some of the pieces that have holes are already integrel to the frame. I like the tabs idea, seems easy enough and a lot more solid than my cheesey tapped holes. Tabs it is. Thanks guys! Carl, my dear sweet wife will get the first ride in my buggy. You can have the 2nd ride if you promise not to tell her how much I have in that money pit! ;D
-
Fair , this post will seft detruct in 5 sec. :nw