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Offline dsrace

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clutch slave cylinders
« on: February 10, 2009, 10:38:48 PM »
just in case someone is interested, I am running 3800 series II v-6 with a stage 3 clutch 228 mm ( 9" ) instead of the more standard 200mm ( 8 ) clutch. I bought a set of floor mount jamar pedals ( won't ever happen again !!!!!! ) with their stand alone throttle pedal and supposedly the biggest ( 7/8" ) bore slave cylinder.

not only did their pedals not show up with 7/8" brake and 3/4" clutch and 7/8" slave but they don't even use any kind of bushing on the pedal pivots, they go chrome on chrome. my pedals showed up 11/16" both brake and clutch, they did correct that problem but not promptly! I was left with a clutch that damn near needed to legs to push. I took my slave off and checked the bore and found that it was 19mm. I first took the clutch pedal off its shaft and cleaned off all the flaked off chrome and coated the shaft with a chain lube that turns hard like wax and then installed a new 7/8" bore slave cylinder from speed way motors because I just couldn't stand one more conversation with jamar.

the end result was 45 - 50 percent easier throw. so for anyone with this problem I would recommend an 11/16" - 3/4" bore on clutch master cylinder and 7/8" bore on slave cylinder and NO jamar pedals, go with cnc or speed way ( willwood ) or neil, with some kind of bushing or bearing and make sure the bores are all stamped in or on the cylinders.
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Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 06:04:11 AM »
It seems like many component manufacturers don't deserve the reputation they have. It's great when info like this is passed along.Just because a name is respected does not necessarily mean it's deserved.
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Offline Yoshi

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 07:52:29 AM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on February 11, 2009, 06:04:11 AM
It seems like many component manufacturers don't deserve the reputation they have. It's great when info like this is passed along.Just because a name is respected does not necessarily mean it's deserved.
Is Jamar a respected name?....lol
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Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 07:56:31 AM »
It is to SOME people.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 07:56:47 AM »
I prefer Wilwood
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fastcorvairs

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 08:06:57 AM »
Quote from: Yoshi on February 11, 2009, 07:52:29 AM
Is Jamar a respected name?....lol

            Case in point.  I am trying to get Kennedy to fess up that the short star flywheel they sent me has the clutch pilot bearing off center of the short star crank shaft pilot bushing by .050 tho of and inch.  They keep saying that it just looks that way.   well (da)  the engine shakes when you wing the throttle.  Never did that when I had the old adapter and flywheel on it that was a home a built job.  When I purchased the Kennedy I thought I would be getting a pro unit.  Well so much for a thinking. Still haven't got the problem resolved with them. 
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Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 10:43:46 AM »
Details please
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fastcorvairs

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 01:47:54 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on February 11, 2009, 10:43:46 AM
Details please

        When I built my car I purchased the engine and flywheel and adaptor from a fellow that does allot of 3.5 short star and 3.8 Buick engines. He builds the adaptor plates and flywheels himself.  the car ran fine for a half season at LS.  When I tore it down for powder coat and chrome I decided that I needed a hi $$$$$$$$$$ Kennedy set.  (Just for looks and name sake) what I had was working just fine.  Needed that billet look and all that shit.  Ordered the Kennedy set and installed it.  fired the car up for the first time just the day before loading it into the toyhauler and heading south to Glamis for New Years.  found out that the engine would shutter like something was out of balance and omit a screaming sound when letting out on the clutch.  To late to tear down before trip.  So told myself I could live the the shutter and scream until I get back. 
After returning from Glamis I take's the trans off and looking real close I can see that the Kennedy pilot bearing is off center of the pilot bushing in the crank by .050.  No be deal.  Box everything up call Kennedy and tell them it is on it's way back for exchange.  Wrong.  Kennedy Call's back and Tell's my people that they can't find anything wrong with there fine product.  So here I am stuck with a flywheel that I can't use and Kennedy to dam uppity to omit that there machinist took that part out of a automatic lathe on a Friday night for clean up and then did not set it back in the lathe right Monday morning when he came to work.  Looks like I get to put my old set back on.  1: 1:
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Offline dsrace

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 09:40:10 PM »
Quote from: fastcorvairs on February 11, 2009, 01:47:54 PM
        When I built my car I purchased the engine and flywheel and adaptor from a fellow that does allot of 3.5 short star and 3.8 Buick engines. He builds the adaptor plates and flywheels himself.  the car ran fine for a half season at LS.  When I tore it down for powder coat and chrome I decided that I needed a hi $$$$$$$$$$ Kennedy set.  (Just for looks and name sake) what I had was working just fine.  Needed that billet look and all that shit.  Ordered the Kennedy set and installed it.  fired the car up for the first time just the day before loading it into the toyhauler and heading south to Glamis for New Years.  found out that the engine would shutter like something was out of balance and omit a screaming sound when letting out on the clutch.  To late to tear down before trip.  So told myself I could live the the shutter and scream until I get back. 
After returning from Glamis I take's the trans off and looking real close I can see that the Kennedy pilot bearing is off center of the pilot bushing in the crank by .050.  No be deal.  Box everything up call Kennedy and tell them it is on it's way back for exchange.  Wrong.  Kennedy Call's back and Tell's my people that they can't find anything wrong with there fine product.  So here I am stuck with a flywheel that I can't use and Kennedy to dam uppity to omit that there machinist took that part out of a automatic lathe on a Friday night for clean up and then did not set it back in the lathe right Monday morning when he came to work.  Looks like I get to put my old set back on.  1: 1:


I know how you feel!!!!  I have had to deal with a # of companies now with responses worse than this.

I don't know if this helps but on my 3.8 series II v-6, I had to send in my stock flex plate to have the new flywheel weight matched balanced to it. my motor ( so I was told ) is externally as well as internally balanced.

I have found that anymore you have to find the right person to ask just the right question before telling them of your problem with their product before they start lying through their teeth!!!!

you could call kep and ask them if this is true for your motor or the guy that made the old one. you could ship it back and ask them to check and make sure their flywheel is balanced and/or balanced matching the old one or take it to your local shop and have them check it.  I bought my 9" clutch and adapter through kep with out problems but we all know mistakes happen. kep did forget to tell me that with a 9" clutch the stock throw out arm on the out side of the 091 tranny would bend and then break. so I have had to order a new one off a mendi from weddle, they are also 1/2" taller for more leverage!
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Offline fastcorvairs

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 06:47:27 AM »
Dsrace

       How do you like your 9 inch?  I am thinking about calling Kep and ordering one for my Short Star.  My clutch slave is 3/4 and I have the longer arm on my Mindy that Bill @ AZ put on. They should be OK for the larger 9ner.
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Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 06:49:30 AM »
I love my "9 incher" wish it was a 10! LOL!!!!!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline dsrace

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 01:44:03 PM »
Quote from: fastcorvairs on February 19, 2009, 06:47:27 AM
Dsrace

       How do you like your 9 inch?  I am thinking about calling Kep and ordering one for my Short Star.  My clutch slave is 3/4 and I have the longer arm on my Mindy that Bill @ AZ put on. They should be OK for the larger 9ner.

I have two friends that have v-6 rails, one is a 3.1 ( dunebound 69 ) with a stage II clutch and allan 3.8 out of an older regal but warmed up , stage III clutch both 200mm. they don't have problems with them slipping but when I went to order mine from kep I talked to the rep about the 228 for added insurance. I have had 0 problems with slippage but I did have to go with the 7/8" bore slave and my clutch master bore is 11/16" and now my wife as well as my 13 year old daughter can run that clutch lever with no problem so when the new arm shows up from weddle I should be in great shape.

did you ever get that flywheel problem figured out? is your motor balanced exteranaly as well?  a good friend of mine is building another v-6 rail right now and currently runs a 3.8. he was wanting a lighter weight motor but still a v-6 so he called the gm dealership ( allan owns a body shop ) and asked for the shipping weight on a short star crate motor and the shipping weight on an 04  3.8 series II, the short star is 42lbs heavier! go figure the quad valve system would add that much weight!
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" the less talent they have, the more pride, vanity and arrogance they have. All these fools, however, find other fools who applauded them " .    ERASMUS 1509

Offline dsrace

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 01:50:14 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on February 19, 2009, 06:49:30 AM
I love my "9 incher" wish it was a 10! LOL!!!!!

You must have a tall wife john holmes!

lol
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" the less talent they have, the more pride, vanity and arrogance they have. All these fools, however, find other fools who applauded them " .    ERASMUS 1509

Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2009, 01:52:04 PM »
Nope,bug eyed.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: clutch slave cylinders
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2009, 01:52:23 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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