DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: Punkur67 on March 14, 2009, 05:35:32 AM
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I don't want to use the alum washers on my wheels for the flat wheel to acorn lug nut. Can I buy a counterbore bit made for the acorn nut? All my wheel flanges are 5/8 billet so there is plenty of meat to drill.
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do you have to run the acorn nuts? I think I know what you want, but pics would be helpful.
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Are you saying that you want to c'sink the alum. wheel for the nut's taper?
I remember reading somewhere not to do this with alum. wheels.
Most are designed with the holes sized tight to the studs for location. If you c'sink the wheel it can egg out the hole over time. I could be wrong, but this is what I've heard.
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Here are the nuts i want to run. http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=WHL014&Category_Code= (http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=WHL014&Category_Code=)I want to drill a countersink or bore (not shure of the correct term here) so the nuts have the proper mating surface and not need to run these stupid washers.
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And I will expose more threads by doing this also.
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I use the washers - they are not too bad. never thought about drilling the wheels.....
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Are you saying that you want to c'sink the alum. wheel for the nut's taper?
I remember reading somewhere not to do this with alum. wheels.
Most are designed with the holes sized tight to the studs for location. If you c'sink the wheel it can egg out the hole over time. I could be wrong, but this is what I've heard.
Yes, this is what I want to do. They are so thick I figured it would not affect them. I just want to go in about 5/16. That is half way. There are other wheels that are thinner than 5/16 at the mounting surface, like my old douglas wheels.
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Here are the nuts i want to run. http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=WHL014&Category_Code= (http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=WHL014&Category_Code=)I want to drill a countersink or bore (not shure of the correct term here) so the nuts have the proper mating surface and not need to run these stupid washers.
Pictures of the your rim's.
Show us some pic's of you rim's. Are you saying that you have a 5/8 thix rim that does not have a lug nut champher in them? I though that the .190 non bead locks were the only ones that required the big washers.
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I use the washers - they are not too bad. never thought about drilling the wheels.....
I have in the past. Just hate them cause its just one more thing to loose in the sand
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If it were me I would open up the wheel holes to accept stainless slugs with the taper.
The tapered slugs would have a wide flanged head and be pressed into the wheel.
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Pictures of the your rim's.
Show us some pic's of you rim's. Are you saying that you have a 5/8 thix rim that does not have a lug nut champher in them? I though that the .190 non bead locks were the only ones that required the big washers.
Yes the rim is 5/8 at the wheel mounting surface.
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There are pics of the wheels on my build page. Sorry having trouble getting the pics of the car off my computer
http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=561.30 (http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=561.30)
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I'm with Rick on this one
Punch them and put in the inserts...I was just out looking at the wheels I use that have tapered lugs and they all have the insert...Bonus is no washers to loose as you stated...Bad is I don't have a clue where to get them :-[
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I found these...
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DBX9 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DBX9)
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DBY5 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1DBY5)
Thought they might do the job.
Anybody have an idea where to get the stainless inserts?
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be sure you get the correct angle. I did this once and believe the angle was 82*, Not 60*.
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be sure you get the correct angle. I did this once and believe the angle was 82*, Not 60*.
I just saw adapters on pacific customs to go to 60 accorns. How did it work for you doing this.
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Just countersink to the same angle as your lugs.My DWT's are like that.Won't harm a thing.
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Do the wheels have a piloted center? Why not just run regular flange nuts? Otherwise I think rick was on to something. Counter bore the holes for the washers and press them in. Could use a little loctite or someting to keep them in if you are worried about loosing them.
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Standard Acorns are 60deg.
You won't even have to go half way through.
I just made some adapters, and used a 60deg C'sink. Went down till the hole got the same size as the nut. I could measure the depth tomorrow.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D242&hash=f90d5f39d1a4a7d194201cb8c423eb8d529ce5c9)
It looks identical to the lug holes in the Douglas heavy beadlocks.
C'sinks that big are a bit pricey though.
I think the key as with any aluminum wheel is torque it then recheck after a couple miles.
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What bore diameter bit did you use? What you did is exactly what I was asking to do.
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My studs were 14MM, so that is the size that I drilled through. On the C'sink, you need to get your lug nuts to know how deep to go. I got some that had a taper head that was bigger than the hex of the nut, so they could have been C'sinked deeper. But for the 14mm X 1.5, I couldn't find a nut with that built larger diameter, so I just went as deep as possible, without sinking the hex in the hole. I was worried about it digging in when torqueing it down.
I am not sure what you mean by bore diameter.... The OD of the C'sink needs to be as big or bigger than the nut.
I can measure the ID, OD, and depth of the C'sink tomorrow.
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I was asking what diameter the counterbore was. I was thinking 3/4 or 7/8
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Counterbore makes a square bottom hole, C'sink makes a tapered hole. I believe my C'sink was 1", but it doesn't hurt if it is to big it only matters that it is big enough for the depth your going, because the taper comes clear to the top of the hole. In order to know the minimum size that you can get away with, measure across the lug nut, tip to tip on the hex if there is no flange. And as I said if the nut has a larger flange where the taper is, you might want to go larger.
I didn't go off any standard, I just made it to fit the nuts I had.
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Counterbore makes a square bottom hole, C'sink makes a tapered hole.
Thank you! That was bugging me.
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Sorry for boing a retard on terms
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No prob. I never knew till I dealt with it everyday. I just thew it out because it seemed others were unsure as well. I bought my C'sink from MSC. I think anyone can order from them on the web. I use 6 flute chatterless, but they also have 3 flute and single flute. I have always used a mill to C'sink, so I am not sure which kind would work best with a drill press or hand drill. Maybe someone else can chime in here.
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Single flute works best by hand or drill press.I wouldn.t suggest doing this by hand tho.
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No hand drill with a CS. You need to have the bit nice and sturdy.
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I have a small press/lathe I can use. They sell them at grainger in many sizes so I think thats where im going.
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No hand drill with a CS. You need to have the bit nice and sturdy.
LOL!!! I've CS thousands of holes with a single flute CS by hand.No problems ever.BUT for this operation I really feel you should do it on a mill using coordinates if you don't have a rotary table. If any one of the 5 are off that one will not tighten properly.Take the wheels to a machine shop and for the same cost as a large CS or barely more they should do the job right for you. WHeels aren't cheap so why take any chances???????
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I agree you need to use a mill. I would clamp the wheel to the table then pick up the holes one at a time by carefully dropping in first with a collet mounted dowel pin.
I'd use a single flute c'sink and run it slow 60rpm using WD40 or oil.
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Ditto.