DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => "AP" General Discusion => Topic started by: wightsparks on November 23, 2018, 05:00:41 AM
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As mentioned in my intro I have a UK VW based Sandrail that I modified with a Miata Engine, Porsche 944 suspension (IRS torsion bar), Bike mufflers (see I can talk American!) and other random bits of cars.
The frame is a Fugitive that is an 80's rip off of a Chenowth
(https://i.imgur.com/LIdFoVAl.jpg)
Despite it's looks it is mainly a road car with the odd excursion to the mud.
Having done the mods on this one now I am looking to build a "Road Rail" from scratch, something along the lines of the Arial Nomad - this has about 8"-10" of travel which will probably be plenty. Shown here with our finest British weather
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBfKjwqG/mud-honey-down-and-dirty-with-the-ariel-nomad-inline-1-photo-661.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBfKjwqG)
Looks wise I like these: (Only looks I don't need rock crawler ability!)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mzjC0SCm/s-l1600.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzjC0SCm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BPt4JqLd/tn-e-Rod-offroad-2346-freigestellt-web2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPt4JqLd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/p5jcf7gm/9t-YWd3-BSw-RE1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5jcf7gm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4nH0R7mX/pjkbuggy2-jm9exit2bn6f.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nH0R7mX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3dMc88vm/Project-Fun-Buggy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dMc88vm)
For road registration as Baloo has mentioned there are a couple of options.
a) Build it custom then put it through an IVA test - a very detailed examination to a spec that runs to 300 pages, costs $700 a test with a 92% first time fail rate. Transport to the test for me would add around $300 each time, also adds 3-6 months to the build time.
b) build it using an existing chassis from a "Body on Frame" car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body-on-frame , you also have to use a few other parts - choose from suspension, axles,steering engine etc. BUT then it is just a form, a few pics and free. A tube frame can be added as long as you don't cut the original chassis.
Like this :
(https://i.postimg.cc/dh9sRSYN/Screenshot-2018-11-22-Vehicle-registration.png) (https://postimg.cc/dh9sRSYN)
For b) I have not yet been able to find any rear engine RWD separate chassis cars - (except the beetle of course ) -though @Baloo is the expert on this and has started a few similar projects
The little Suzuki Jimny/Vittara 2WDs are front engine RWD, which does not fit with the look I want but I may be able to compromise! - The IBIS above is front engined of course but then they are HUGE! (for the UK anyway) A lot of the big US SUV's use body on frame but we don't get them over here - and I could not afford one if we did.
Stealing this picture off Baloo you can see the Suzuki chassis could be interesting
(https://i.postimg.cc/D4s95mtd/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/D4s95mtd)
Some chassis dimensions here https://www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk/tech-specs/chassis-diagrams
I was hoping to find some designs/plans to buy that I could modify for the cage shape, but nothing I can find in the UK - The Tomala above is Polish and not been put into CAD as far as I know. The US/AUS etc plans that I have found are for extreme off road vehicles - Edge, Rorty and the like. So like Baloo I'm stuck with designing my own. Going to start with wood sticks!
That is where I am at the moment - I have another small project first that is an off-road electric reverse trike that I inherited - but that will be a separate post!
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so only you can choose your level of difficulty. as far as what you want to build... if one had to choose from those pics, this one would be the easiest to duplicate with out plans.
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If at all possible,I would go with option A since I hate what the restrictions would make me do with option B. It sounds/looks like you and baloo are kindred spirits! Welcome to the site!
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i added 2 lines to that pic. the lower line needs to be added imo and he upper line is where that upper tube should come from to follow the secondary down the hood. otherwise i don't know why they bother building it like that??
you could design and build a tube chassis yourself, it's not as hard as people think. here is a pic of a pretty standard universal design. the red arrows need to be 13" apart inside of the tube then one can fit a decent long travel a arm front end on it. now if one was only going to run 16 " travel you could lower that to prob 11" apart. back on the side where your arm would sit if you were sitting in it, make that spacing, between upper and lower frame sections, 15" or 17" depending on the front.
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so only you can choose your level of difficulty. as far as what you want to build... if one had to choose from those pics, this on would be the easiest to duplicate with out plans.
I like it and the Tomala. Either would be pretty easy to build.
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here is a pic of an extremely easy one to build ;D ;D
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i added 2 lines to that pic. the lower line needs to be added imo and he upper line is where that upper tube should come from to follow the secondary down the hood. otherwise i don't know why they bother building it like that??
you could design and build a tube chassis yourself, it's not as hard as people think. here is a pic of a pretty standard universal design. the red arrows need to be 13" apart inside of the tube then one can fit a decent long travel a arm front end on it. now if one was only going to run 16 " travel you could lower that to prob 11" apart. back on the side where your arm would sit if you were sitting in it, make that spacing, between upper and lower frame sections, 15" or 17" depending on the front.
Remember,he has no need for that much travel.His build ,suspension wise,is a piece of cake compared to LT buggy needs. THat said he will have the option of shorter arms both front and rear enabling a wider dimension between the inner pivots. That opens up some real estate. Consider the rally cars,limited travel yet they handle a LOT of stuff and handle all sorts of stuff very well .
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as far as plans and measurements well , grab a tape measure and find the car you feel most comfortable for foot room and head room. measure from the back of the seat to the fire wall in front of the pedals and from top of seat to head liner. then when you choose seats for the road rail you can add the base measure of that seat to your existing. measure the motor and add 6" beyond the acc's for ease of access.
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here is a pic of an extremely easy one to build ;D ;D
Brian,I don't think he is looking at building any type of actual off road/dune vehicle. He ,I think,needs a project Binky . ;D
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i added 2 lines to that pic. the lower line needs to be added imo and he upper line is where that upper tube should come from to follow the secondary down the hood. otherwise i don't know why they bother building it like that??
you could design and build a tube chassis yourself, it's not as hard as people think. here is a pic of a pretty standard universal design. the red arrows need to be 13" apart inside of the tube then one can fit a decent long travel a arm front end on it. now if one was only going to run 16 " travel you could lower that to prob 11" apart. back on the side where your arm would sit if you were sitting in it, make that spacing, between upper and lower frame sections, 15" or 17" depending on the front.
Remember,he has no need for that much travel.His build ,suspension wise,is a piece of cake compared to LT buggy needs. THat said he will have the option of shorter arms both front and rear enabling a wider dimension between the inner pivots. That opens up some real estate. Consider the rally cars,limited travel yet they handle a LOT of stuff and handle all sorts of stuff very well .
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true but he will find his way to baloo's offroad course eventually so atleast 10" wheel travel. he can use a vw torsion at point with a 3x3 trailing arm on the rear to simplify that end.
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here is a pic of an extremely easy one to build ;D ;D
Brian,I don't think he is looking at building any type of actual off road/dune vehicle. He ,I think,needs a project Binky . ;D
project binky would be fun and very time consuming. the pics he posted paint a diff pic! ;D
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i added 2 lines to that pic. the lower line needs to be added imo and he upper line is where that upper tube should come from to follow the secondary down the hood. otherwise i don't know why they bother building it like that??
you could design and build a tube chassis yourself, it's not as hard as people think. here is a pic of a pretty standard universal design. the red arrows need to be 13" apart inside of the tube then one can fit a decent long travel a arm front end on it. now if one was only going to run 16 " travel you could lower that to prob 11" apart. back on the side where your arm would sit if you were sitting in it, make that spacing, between upper and lower frame sections, 15" or 17" depending on the front.
Remember,he has no need for that much travel.His build ,suspension wise,is a piece of cake compared to LT buggy needs. THat said he will have the option of shorter arms both front and rear enabling a wider dimension between the inner pivots. That opens up some real estate. Consider the rally cars,limited travel yet they handle a LOT of stuff and handle all sorts of stuff very well .
[/color]
true but he will find his way to baloo's offroad course eventually so atleast 10" wheel travel. he can use a vw torsion at point with a 3x3 trailing arm on the rear to simplify that end.
I don't believe baloos course woud actually need 10" travel. That much travel would ,in some ways,be detrimental to a road car.
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In the end,he needs to cement his needs and build to that end. Compromises never yield the best results. Or put another way,one size doesn't fit all. LOL!!
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here is a pic of an extremely easy one to build ;D ;D
Brian,I don't think he is looking at building any type of actual off road/dune vehicle. He ,I think,needs a project Binky . ;D
glad to see you watch blinky over there too, he has quite a following over here, I cant help feeling he is over engineering it a bit though, probably just to show case his not inconsiderable engineering skills this series must have done wonders for his motorsport business, don't get me wrong its very very very good but its a rally car and has a very high chance of been destroyed when they start competing with it , most rally cars just have all the drivetrain swapped into another shell when they are severely damaged and there's the problem he cant just get another body shell that one is a bit Special
but I do take my hat off to his skills, also their humour is funny lol
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As mentioned in my intro I have a UK VW based Sandrail that I modified with a Miata Engine, Porsche 944 suspension (IRS torsion bar), Bike mufflers (see I can talk American!) and other random bits of cars.
The frame is a Fugitive that is an 80's rip off of a Chenowth
(https://i.imgur.com/LIdFoVAl.jpg)
Despite it's looks it is mainly a road car with the odd excursion to the mud.
Having done the mods on this one now I am looking to build a "Road Rail" from scratch, something along the lines of the Arial Nomad - this has about 8"-10" of travel which will probably be plenty. Shown here with our finest British weather
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBfKjwqG/mud-honey-down-and-dirty-with-the-ariel-nomad-inline-1-photo-661.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBfKjwqG)
Looks wise I like these: (Only looks I don't need rock crawler ability!)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mzjC0SCm/s-l1600.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzjC0SCm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BPt4JqLd/tn-e-Rod-offroad-2346-freigestellt-web2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPt4JqLd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/p5jcf7gm/9t-YWd3-BSw-RE1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5jcf7gm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4nH0R7mX/pjkbuggy2-jm9exit2bn6f.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nH0R7mX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3dMc88vm/Project-Fun-Buggy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dMc88vm)
For road registration as Baloo has mentioned there are a couple of options.
Like this :
(https://i.postimg.cc/dh9sRSYN/Screenshot-2018-11-22-Vehicle-registration.png) (https://postimg.cc/dh9sRSYN)
Stealing this picture off Baloo you can see the Suzuki chassis could be interesting
(https://i.postimg.cc/D4s95mtd/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/D4s95mtd)
Some chassis dimensions here https://www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk/tech-specs/chassis-diagrams
some interesting designs there I still intend to use the Suzuki Vitara/sidekick chassis with a frame on it that looks like your fugitive
with a v8 up front, need a set of fug body panels if you see any anywhere, even just to take moulds off
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so only you can choose your level of difficulty. as far as what you want to build... if one had to choose from those pics, this on would be the easiest to duplicate with out plans.
I like it and the Tomala. Either would be pretty easy to build.
Actually they are the same! - or possibly the frame is a copy of the Tomala. The Tomala guy is Polish and has build thread but I need to sign up to a Polish forum to see it and get hold of him - failing so far even with google translate!
As Fabr says I don't need lots of travel 8-10" will be fine. The VW rear rorsion bar set up is what I put on the Fug from a Porsche 944 so i may well do that again.
dsrace - thanks for the frame design input.
Baloo - someone just posted on my thread in the mig forum with a fug - he might have a set of panels. I would want to lower the engine on the Suzuki if I went that route.
Don't think they will be Rallying Binky - far too much gadgetry, fun to watch but hugely over engineered.
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Ya,electric powered tilt fronts are not typical race fare. I truly enjoy the build though. I do like how they try to tell just how many "easy fabbing" things take well------FOREVER to do well.
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still fun to watch
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Somehow I missed Baloo's thread on here about the "beach buggy" I have seen it elsewhere in less detail but this pic jumped out
(https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/andyhaycock/Hoppa%20Buggy/untitled4wt_zpsimcarttf.png) (https://s259.photobucket.com/user/andyhaycock/media/Hoppa%20Buggy/untitled4wt_zpsimcarttf.png.html)
Coupled with the idea that I can get a 2.5L V6 version of the Suzuki Vittara, remove the FWD bit of the 4WD and drop the engine lower - or get the RWD version if such a thing exists - might get me close to what I am looking for.
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just needs a roll cage ;D
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https://i.postimg.cc/p5jcf7gm/9t-YWd3-BSw-RE1.jpg
This looks pretty interesting. Beefy, heavy, but I like it.
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Some build photo's mixed in with other designs and stuff here http://mudmasters.pl/
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Somehow I missed Baloo's thread on here about the "beach buggy" I have seen it elsewhere in less detail but this pic jumped out
(https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/andyhaycock/Hoppa%20Buggy/untitled4wt_zpsimcarttf.png) (https://s259.photobucket.com/user/andyhaycock/media/Hoppa%20Buggy/untitled4wt_zpsimcarttf.png.html)
Coupled with the idea that I can get a 2.5L V6 version of the Suzuki Vittara, remove the FWD bit of the 4WD and drop the engine lower - or get the RWD version if such a thing exists - might get me close to what I am looking for.
hi yes 2wd vitaras exist, and that pic is well old lol
it ended up with a 3.9 rover engine and a fugative bonnet
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jKyMhLN/screenshot-19.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fR4LTsvH/screenshot-20.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKvnSn6B/screenshot-21.png) (https://postimages.org/)
so that is a mk 1 vitara chassis mk 2 has some differences which imho are good
mk has power steering rack not the vague steering box of the mk1
mk 2 has 5 link rear axle not the the 3 link
mk 2 has lower front strut mounts easier to hide under the body work
you can get a V8 lower than the suspension tops
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTrppqtP/DSC00210.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Mk2 is up to 2005 yes?
If I can lower the engine and keep the 8 points it gets interesting.
Alternatively, in a too much coffee moment I wondered if it was possible to reverse the gearbox output/drive and run the whole thing backwards giving me rear engined 4WD 8)
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Mk2 is up to 2005 yes?
If I can lower the engine and keep the 8 points it gets interesting.
Alternatively, in a too much coffee moment I wondered if it was possible to reverse the gearbox output/drive and run the whole thing backwards giving me rear engined 4WD 8)
hi
yes 2005 they finished might be a few 2006 out there
you can get reverse drive transfer boxes but they will probably be remote boxes like a Suzuki sj or g wagon, think milner and raceway make them but price will make your eyes water
http://www.rakeway.co.uk/page12.html
the other issue I see with rear engine is that it will be above the rear diff which rises and falls with the suspension travel
unlike the front diff which is fixed so you will have to mount the engine high to give clearance and its already a tall engine
I pondered using a Subaru engine up front, nice low flat 4 or 6 with a nice engine sound, however the drivers side exhaust exits straight at the front prop shaft so maybe a Subaru engine in the rear ? mated to a 2wd box feeding a reverse rotation remote transfer simples ;D
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Subaru have been making cars for much longer than most of us think, some early models had a separate chassis with a rear engine and 4wd, I have a sambar rolling chassis from 1980, at least I think its a sambar it came as a rolling chassis, will get some pics of it
Subaru also made a small 3 cylinder engine car with cvt transmission that was 4 wd as well that has potential to make into something too , like this guy
http://subarujusty.proboards.com/thread/2684/4x4-justy-buggy
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Yes I had considered the Subaru engine as well. Probably need to mate it to the existing transmission though to keep the 8 points.
Saw your Justy project, did you finish it?
I'll be keeping my eye out for a cheap LWB Grand Vitara <2005 then. Though that will need another garage, but if I build a scratch frame I can get it almost finished in the space I have. decisions, decisions!
No rush, still have the electric reverse trike to finish..
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so did any of the manufacturers over there across the pond make a v8 front wheel drive car? as in for a rear engine turn it sideways and weld the spiders in the diff then run a drive shaft to an independent front and rear diff??
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so did any of the manufacturers over there across the pond make a v8 front wheel drive car? as in for a rear engine turn it sideways and weld the spiders in the diff then run a drive shaft to an independent front and rear diff??
not to my knowledge, biggest transverse I think I have seen is a V6 Toyota or jag, I think wrightsparks wants to use an un modified chassis so he can keep the title of the vehicle it came off mounting a transverse engine and box amidships is going to call for chassis mods meaning he wont be able to use the title anyway ,and you would need some humongus wheels/tyres to counter having 2 diffs in the drive line
the justy is nearly finished l couldn't get it to run I might have fried the ecu, back then stand alone engine management wasent common or cheap and I lost interest but it is still in the hay loft, I will drag it back out sooner or later and get it running
and they make a 2.7 V6 Vitara with close to 200 horses its called the xl7 that would make a good base ?
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Thanks for the tip Baloo The 1st gen XL-7 up to 06 looks good, the 2nd gen XL7 (no hyphen) is a unibody.
" The first-generation XL-7 was a Suzuki design, had a body-on-frame construction, and was essentially a stretched Grand Vitara. The North American version had a Suzuki-designed 2.5- or 2.7-liter V6 engine , on a rear-wheel drive-based platform with optional four-wheel drive. The UK version was also available with a 2.0-liter diesel engine, made by various manufacturers including Peugeot. "
A bit pricey for a donor as a runner but a crashed one might come up. 2L or the V6 would be fine for me. Hopefully the chassis does not extend too far as it's 4.8m (187in) long!
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you can find them for less than £300 quid, im just waiting for an auto version to fall into my lap ;D
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUZUKI-GRAND-VITARA-XL7-V6/132872959424
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But that's an Auction will probably go north of 2K . err actually no it wont - worst feedback ever! " We never give the reg out" rofl
However I did spot one for you, badly described https://ebay.us/rdS5rz
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But that's an Auction will probably go north of 2K . Also worst feedback ever! " We never give the reg out" rofl
However I did spot one for you, badly described https://ebay.us/rdS5rz
a couple finished last week under 700
this was 5 miles down the road but a manual 595 buy it now
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUZUKI-GRND-VITARA-XL-7-V6-STARTS-AND-DRIVE-EXPORT-SALAVGE-REPAIR/153253072356?hash=item23ae984de4:g:9m8AAOSwWrxb5X7Q
Birmingham is convenient for that one but its one of them dam manuals lol
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Yea taking a look at some of the sold stuff there are a few S/R ones. Anyway don't you already have a project or two!
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read through this
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/using-a-fwd-drivetrain-for-a-mid-engine-awd-setup/91900/page1/
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these 2 pics of an mx5 with no clothes on caught my eye whilst looking on ebay just
(https://i.postimg.cc/W40GXnX8/s-l16004-DQNHCUC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KNH3zCH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzFnVMW2/s-l1600-ZGX42-O0-T.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3s6JN9s)
they look like you could make something out of it ? maybe like a fug with less rear overhang and engine up front, seems to have double wishbones all round h'mmm
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Yea taking a look at some of the sold stuff there are a few S/R ones. Anyway don't you already have a project or two!
a few more than 2 lol but there is no law against it
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read through this
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/using-a-fwd-drivetrain-for-a-mid-engine-awd-setup/91900/page1/
looks interesting will have a read through tonight
transverse layout was how mark built his rockcrawler
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLy2HDgM/screenshot-27.png) (https://postimages.org/)
I had a fiddle with Subaru with a 2wd transaxle
(https://i.postimg.cc/28BgCp6S/screenshot-28.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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The Exocet uses the stripped MX5 joined with a space frame. There is a US off road version too. It's a monocoque so back to IVA.
I've stripped an MX5 to build an Exocet - Fugly when I saw it though, which is why the engine is in the back of my rail!
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF/2016-05-07-00-35-39.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF)
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The Exocet uses the stripped MX5 joined with a space frame. There is a US off road version too. It's a monocoque so back to IVA.
I've stripped an MX5 to build an Exocet - Fugly when I saw it though, which is why the engine is in the back of my rail!
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF/2016-05-07-00-35-39.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF)
mx5 appeals to me, was it hard to sort the wiring on the engine ?
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Medium I would say. The engine loom is fairly well self contained, immobiliser is not that complicated. ECU Needs a speed input from the transmission via the instruments which you can do with a Dakota sgi-5e and a feed from an ABS ring or elsewhere. Clutch and N sensor. Battery is mounted in the back end so lots of wire. I had to extend quite a bit to re-use the gauges. and I had already used the column switches for lights so just built a bit of circuitry. Bonus is that wiring diagrams are available. Mine was a Mk 2.5 from 03
I undid all the unneeded pins from the connector blocks rather than cut wires
To Start
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFbDzqGL/2018-05-18-14-25-53.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFbDzqGL)
Spare bits
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj0Gwg2Q/2018-05-23-17-29-03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj0Gwg2Q)
Packed
(https://i.postimg.cc/TL7KD20y/2018-06-05-23-49-29.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TL7KD20y)
Made up bit
(https://i.postimg.cc/tnsYt0vB/2018-06-06-23-49-13.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnsYt0vB)
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I wish you and baloo were on this side of the pond. Would be fun getting you both to one of our gatherings.
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I wish you and baloo were on this side of the pond. Would be fun getting you both to one of our gatherings.
I wish l was too
I will make it over there at some point 8)
probably next year as I am thinking of going to see my pal in chatanooga
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The Exocet uses the stripped MX5 joined with a space frame. There is a US off road version too. It's a monocoque so back to IVA.
I've stripped an MX5 to build an Exocet - Fugly when I saw it though, which is why the engine is in the back of my rail!
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF/2016-05-07-00-35-39.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGK3PLxF)
which version of the mx5 id that ?
I wonder what the definition of a chassis is, how far could you push it ? that frame that connects the gearbox to the back axle is a sort of chassis ;)
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Medium I would say. The engine loom is fairly well self contained, immobiliser is not that complicated. ECU Needs a speed input from the transmission via the instruments which you can do with a Dakota sgi-5e and a feed from an ABS ring or elsewhere. Clutch and N sensor. Battery is mounted in the back end so lots of wire. I had to extend quite a bit to re-use the gauges. and I had already used the column switches for lights so just built a bit of circuitry. Bonus is that wiring diagrams are available. Mine was a Mk 2.5 from 03
I undid all the unneeded pins from the connector blocks rather than cut wires
To Start
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFbDzqGL/2018-05-18-14-25-53.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFbDzqGL)
Spare bits
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj0Gwg2Q/2018-05-23-17-29-03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj0Gwg2Q)
Packed
(https://i.postimg.cc/TL7KD20y/2018-06-05-23-49-29.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TL7KD20y)
Made up bit
(https://i.postimg.cc/tnsYt0vB/2018-06-06-23-49-13.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnsYt0vB)
nice neat work there sparks
got any links to mx5 wiring diagrams ?
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Thanks - the key is to put it in a box 3x the size you think you will need - just about fits then ;D
It was a Mk 2.5 from 03
http://www.mellens.net/mazda/
I got some 2.5 diagrams from elsewhere but can't remember - I have 2 versions - if you end up with one I'll ping it over.
I lived in the US for a couple of years, FL (hmm) and WA (yay!) spent 6 months in Alaska/BC as well (awesome!)
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read through this
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/using-a-fwd-drivetrain-for-a-mid-engine-awd-setup/91900/page1/
I have read through this but don't understand why they suggest a reverse cut gear set would be a good idea
"this is an excellent idea. I propose we toast, and then get started right away.
I guess one problem would be that many front axles have an offset front diff, because the engine is usually in the way, but maybe you can get away with that with CVs on both ends of the front driveshaft.
Do any serious rock crawling people make reverse cut rear diff gearsets? if so, getting another IRS rear diff on the front but using FWD CVs, Spindles, brakes, steering gear, etc might work."
I can take a diff out of the back of a range rover and put it in the front its still the same item why would you want it reverse cut ?
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well my only thought when i read that was......a front wheel drive cars axles turn counter clockwise in forward gears. i assume that most rear wheel drive drive shaft turn clockwise .I assumed that was it, but i also think one could simply roll the diff over imo.
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Getting back to my "Road Rail design", I did some sketches based on a print out of the LWB Vittara chassis, sort of part trophy truck, part sand rail, part bouncer. Unfortunately I suck at design or drawing but I sketched this>
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9drmc4F/2018-12-08-14-01-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9drmc4F)
Then today on one of my google trawls I found this uncannily similar awesome looking thing
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hcc7w588/12-16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hcc7w588)
https://www.wideopendesign.com/evolution-rock-crawler-chassis
Now I don't like the Jeep grill just the flat hood but I just love the layout and form - obviously it's not designed to mount on a chassis but that shape of a low-ish slung cockpit between the wheels look great.
There is a sketch of the frame somewhere so time to get to CAD, wood sticks and duck tape
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looks very robust. i like it
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Getting back to my "Road Rail design", I did some sketches based on a print out of the LWB Vittara chassis, sort of part trophy truck, part sand rail, part bouncer. Unfortunately I suck at design or drawing but I sketched this>
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9drmc4F/2018-12-08-14-01-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9drmc4F)
Then today on one of my google trawls I found this uncannily similar awesome looking thing
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hcc7w588/12-16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hcc7w588)
https://www.wideopendesign.com/evolution-rock-crawler-chassis
Now I don't like the Jeep grill just the flat hood but I just love the layout and form - obviously it's not designed to mount on a chassis but that shape of a low-ish slung cockpit between the wheels look great.
There is a sketch of the frame somewhere so time to get to CAD, wood sticks and duck tape
your drawing looks like its on a print out of a lwb sj chassis not Vitara leaf springs and weak solid axles
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Vitara swb chassis mk1
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXgdCrHq/IMG_20170404_181600496.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whwjb2tk)
well it was a lwb but I shortened down to a swb
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this is where I am going with my Vitara chassis, big V8 up front and a tube frame that bolts onto the 8 body mounting points
(https://i.postimg.cc/59KrT9Ty/screenshot-30.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Yep I think you are right it is the Samurai Chassis drawing - all I could find.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vDXgndzf/samuraichassisdimensionslwb-zps3e2a43f9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDXgndzf)
Wheelbase is 10cm different I think. Do you have a LWB Vitara drawing by any chance?
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Yep I think you are right it is the Samurai Chassis drawing - all I could find.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vDXgndzf/samuraichassisdimensionslwb-zps3e2a43f9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDXgndzf)
Wheelbase is 10cm different I think. Do you have a LWB Vitara drawing by any chance?
search using escudo or sidekick there seems to be more results for those names than vitara
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdmFDcdD/sidekick.png) (https://postimages.org/)
.
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best part of this thread is all the vehicles i have never heard of or knew existed!!
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no shit! Carry on!!
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Thanks. Have you got a link to that file please - postimage shrinks it and makes it low quality.
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I think I just googled sidekick chassis dimensions which threw this up
https://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=110158.0
then I just copied the chassis image half way down the page
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Thanks. That is exactly what I googled too, just got the same ones for the SJ that I have.
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Thanks. That is exactly what I googled too, just got the same ones for the SJ that I have.
your welcome
its also know as the Chevrolet tracker in Canada I think, might throw up some better drawings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Tracker_(Americas)
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heres another xl7 starting cheap at least
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183574886163?ul_noapp=true
to get a Vitara cheaper look at the 2lt 4cylinder they are always breaking timing chains, ditch the body and the engine and box
and your good to go, maybe a rover v8 or a Subaru out of a forester, you would still be well in on your 8 points to keep the identity
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chevy tracker or geo tracker before gm ( government motors ;D) acquired them like daewoo
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heres another xl7 starting cheap at least
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183574886163?ul_noapp=true
to get a Vitara cheaper look at the 2lt 4cylinder they are always breaking timing chains, ditch the body and the engine and box
and your good to go, maybe a rover v8 or a Subaru out of a forester, you would still be well in on your 8 points to keep the identity
I'll probably get whatever comes up on the island, gets expensive to drive over in one and come back in two - even more so if it's a non runner and/or 150 miles away!
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heres another xl7 starting cheap at least
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183574886163?ul_noapp=true
to get a Vitara cheaper look at the 2lt 4cylinder they are always breaking timing chains, ditch the body and the engine and box
and your good to go, maybe a rover v8 or a Subaru out of a forester, you would still be well in on your 8 points to keep the identity
I'll probably get whatever comes up on the island, gets expensive to drive over in one and come back in two - even more so if it's a non runner and/or 150 miles away!
I can imagine, think its the most expensive ferry per distance travelled in the world lol
it costs me over £100 every time I come over there in my transit and I can almost reach out and touch your island from Portsmouth
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Using the Sidekick chassis this is where I am leaning at the moment. Hood would be inside the towers, not sure how low I can get the engine. Lower enclosed upper frame open
(https://i.imgur.com/r1jICYXm.jpg)
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That could be made to look very nice.
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Using the Sidekick chassis this is where I am leaning at the moment. Hood would be inside the towers, not sure how low I can get the engine. Lower enclosed upper frame open
(https://i.imgur.com/r1jICYXm.jpg)
looks good, chassis looks a little high if that is to scale, think the bottom of the chassis in the middle section is level with the bottom of the rear axle casing , that would bring the front suspension towers down quite a bit, possible below the bonnet line, I have a rolling chassis out side some where will get some pics of how it sits
orange line wants to move down to where the yellow line is more or less
(https://i.postimg.cc/sXwcy7WZ/screenshot-33.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Thanks. I had assumed I would be lifting it for clearance - but possibly not that much!
It is to scale, those are 31"/780mm wheels on it same as the rears on my 'rail.
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ground clearance is a good thing! never know when you may need to hop off the road and into a field ;) ;)
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or a pond
(https://i.postimg.cc/bd26KM6s/offroad3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bd26KM6s)
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or a pond
(https://i.postimg.cc/bd26KM6s/offroad3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bd26KM6s)
Pfft! Around these parts we call that a driveway to the house.
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looks good, chassis looks a little high if that is to scale, think the bottom of the chassis in the middle section is level with the bottom of the rear axle casing , that would bring the front suspension towers down quite a bit, possible below the bonnet line, I have a rolling chassis out side some where will get some pics of how it sits
orange line wants to move down to where the yellow line is more or less
Baloo did you get a chance to take a look at this ? Like to get an idea if it is do-able.
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aaaand he's back. :)
Not a huge amount of progress except having sold my business a few months back I am on the look out for a new one - so considering producing frames for people to do their own 4WD car to Buggy conversion. However I've got to build the prototype first which brings me back to the Road Rail design.
As this may (or may not) be a commercial venture I checked out what was a good donor car to base it on that was cheap, plentiful and not overly prone to rust. Lots of research and opinion turned up the Mitsubishi Montero/Shogun/Pajero and handily a month later a LWB version came up for locally with a blown head gasket or possibly a cracked head- they are made of cheese on the 2.5L Diesel and melt at the first sight of an overheat - expensive to fix in a garage (lots of labour) but even a new head is only around $300.
So I bought it.
(https://imgur.com/n1qxDnBl.jpg)
All it has had so far is a good coat of looking at as I need to sell the Sandrail so I have room in the garage. Plan is to fix it, use it for a couple of months then bring it in for dismemberment. Decisions on viability of actually making money from it to follow...
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best of luck on that venture. this should be a lot of fun!
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Keep us informed!