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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: Carlriddle on March 19, 2019, 05:00:15 AM
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Well pulled buggy out check few things and start up. Noticed a big drip of water out of center cartridge of turbo. Its cracked!!! WTF. So further inspection, I have a cracked head or block not sure yet, gotta try fig out which. Looks like not enough antifreeze and it froze. beathorse.gif~c200 beathorse.gif~c200 beathorse.gif~c200
So can I fix it, find another motor, head, block, and get it going? 6 weeks!!!!!!
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Wellllll,that does suck for sure. Ya got time though.
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Ya got a couple leads if I can pull it off. Got A LOT going one right now. But hell I may come wo car just to see the gang!!!
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well i hope you find a low mileage one with good gears! that does suck for sure and i never wouldnve guessed it got cold enough long enough to freeze to that point down there.
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Motor coming out now. To see if repairable or gotta swap.
Anyone got a zx12 laying around let me know
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fleabay has a few listed. I've bought 3 good busas there without issue. I required about 30 pics of the things first though.
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Yeah made 2 offers. Found another is Miss
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I also never bid on an engine too far away to make the drive to inspect before paying. Ebay policy is against this but eff ebay. What I did was to contact seller ,require well lit pics of each exhaust port that shows all the way to the valve ,same with intake ports and then pics of engine from all directions. Then I would make the deal where seller would remove listing from ebay and then I paid seller 10% down payment with paypal directly to seller thus avoiding ebay .Seller always like this because it saves them paying ebay their commission. Then I would meet the seller in person in a Wal-mart parking lot (security cam protection)to complete the sell after inspecting the engine. I had very good experience that way and almost no way to get effed on the deal.
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there are too many stolen engines and parts being sold on ebay so ya....need to cover your bases!
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Ya ,I forgot to mention I ask for pic of the engine numbers and inquire at the PD about that.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/SJCG28fY/D3-B959-B6-0637-42-D7-9222-AC293-DBB6-A4-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJCG28fY)
Cracked cylinder head allowing the water to make way into where timing chain runs. Finding a head is worse than a whole motor.
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And a crack in center of turbo housing.
Turbo I can understand Head puzzles me a bit plenty of weaker areas w water to expand and crack.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HcHYjtCc/7-CFADA59-B9-E2-46-DC-B0-CD-91037-B12-B208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcHYjtCc)
So I bought a good head and ordered new parts for turbo. Here’s to hoping I don’t find more! Come on Carl luck lol
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Antifreeze is your friend. Welllllll,it could have been . kick ;) Yup,c'mon Carluck!!!!!! You got time at least to get it fixed.
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i mix mine 50/50 but we do get -10* ambient days here. well i hope that all of the coolant passages from jugs to water pump and back are fine. have you pulled the pump and looked at the blades? so are you going to take the head over and have them true it? also have the valves re cut ( re seated)? stronger springs??
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Looking at upgraded springs.
Thinking about lowering compression a little with spacer plate, but cant confirm if I will need the adjustable cam gears. Think so and found a set.
Stock cr 12.2:1 like to drop a point or so, and be able to run about 10psi boost safly. What to do what to do, oh and do I have the time!!! kick kick
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honestly if you did drop 1 full point i bet you would be safe to 14 psi on your current e55 fuel.
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Yeah trying to find how thick a plate I need to do that. More zx12 voodoo. Lol
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found this interesting ;D
https://youtu.be/GsgiaAMc7cM
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this guy makes me chuckle ;D
https://youtu.be/Eft2KWdy0Eg
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and here's the gear stack in your 12r
https://youtu.be/bl5SxlHo-rk
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He is funny to listen to for sure. He does make you think though. Honestly, I was always under the impression that the undercutting purpode was to make for a faster shift due to the dogs being drawn into full engagement faster then the cam would naturally move the dogs into full engagement.
I do see the undercut helping the dogs staying engaged under power though if there is the slop he describes in the cam/follower/weak spring or worn shift drum.
Most super bike trans dogs are already undercut BTW. Only reason to increase the undercut is to cut a few thousandths off the ET.
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yes he is ;D i cannot say it's good or bad. i can say that enemy has enjoyed it in his turbo busa. i do agree that if one is having issues then one really needs to find the problem and repair rather than just sending a set off. now for the abuse they suffer in rails......???? not sure. i can see it making that spot weaker though and yes does make you think!
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The weaker part is pretty much BS ,IMO. You ever see a dog broken? Maybe I just missed it but I've never seen it be an issue.
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i have never seen one of those dogs break. i personally have never had a bike trans fail either. so when the back cut that do they anneal the gear and then re harden it or just back cut and hope the case hardening was deep enough, i know some cryo the gears as well.
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i have never seen one of those dogs break. i personally have never had a bike trans fail either. so when the back cut that do they anneal the gear and then re harden it or just back cut and hope the case hardening was deep enough, i know some cryo the gears as well.
They only cut(grind) the dogs a few thousandths ,just enough to add a couple degrees of back cut. SFAIK the dogs need to be in pretty much undamaged condition or they can't back cut the dogs without cutting through the hard layer.
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carl, old article but i think you may find it useful.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=9753
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As usual with the zx12 not tons of info out there, but heres the plan.
Got a replacement head,
Going to use a spacer plate, .020, to lower compression to 11.5:1
Head studs
Billet clutch basket
Got couple other things to check, but this should allow boost to 10-12lbs, on e60 fuel. :nw :nw :nw Drowning
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sounds like a plan!!
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WOOHOO!
Let there be MORE boost!
Sucks that it had to happen this way, but what the hell right?
Any regards to what cam timing you want with the plate? On the Busa I have read of some leaving the cams in stock position and not being too far off from their target * after a 030 plate but results will vary lol. I had to go to adjustable cam gears to get mine where I wanted them but I have no spacer plate.
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enemy interesting you bring that up! i don't know what carl came up with but i searched for a while to see if i could find any posts on this subject on the 12r's. i couldn't find squat in regards to it. i could find that stock plates are .010 and a .020 would drop cr 1/2 to 3/4 point depending on head and condition of all. i could not find any info on what the .010 extra spacer would do to timng. honestly it advanced timing 2* mechanically that wouldn't be so bad especially if carl can turn the cam sensor back 2* rather than the 2* advanced he has it at now.
while i was helping search for carl, i did find an interesting article about how some are setting the exh cam diff than the intake for turbo applications. less overlap and some other reason. would have to re read that again.
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http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115104
i think that is the article and btw i guess there's a kawi 12r engine in the marine world that shares parts with your engine!
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http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115104
i think that is the article and btw i guess there's a kawi 12r engine in the marine world that shares parts with your engine!
I read and saw that water ski.
Not much info on spacer and how much makes me have to use adjustable sprockets on cams. I can run diff thicker head gasket too but some post say that’s weaker. I got a killer deal lead on cam sprockets lined up. Just trying to fig all out because don’t have time to redo reorder stuff lol
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well hopefully that aem guy will know how apprx how far off the timing will be.
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Got the billet clutch basket in. So good looking hate to hide it inside cover. Nice piece from MTC.
Ordered the adj cams, only way to get crank and cams back to time.
Also .040 spacer plate for cylinder to lower comp to 11.2:1
And new head studs and nuts so I keep it all squeezed together tight
Also pu some antifreeze 🤣🤣🤣
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Got the billet clutch basket in. So good looking hate to hide it inside cover. Nice piece from MTC.
Ordered the adj cams, only way to get crank and cams back to time.
Also .040 spacer plate for cylinder to lower comp to 11.2:1
And new head studs and nuts so I keep it all squeezed together tight
Also pu some antifreeze 🤣🤣🤣
10: 10:
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50/50 on the antifreeze this time? so do you plan on setting timing back to factory marks or are you going to find that article about advancing intake cam and retarding exh cam for a turbo application which requires a degree ring of course? should be a runner !
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all the parts on the way carl? ;)
enemy your running out of time ;D
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Head is here. New billet clutch basket here and installed. Adj cams be here today. Waiting on turbo parts, spacer plate, head studs, and new head gasket. Hope all by end of week. I got a case of cold beer waiting to help assemble and install. Hopefully test fire this weekend.
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all the parts on the way carl? ;)
enemy your running out of time ;D
"Time" is an agreed upon construct..
And I no longer agree with it!
I just need to explain that to the turbo, the header, the power steering, the shock revalve, the alignment, and the tuning.
See, plenty of time!
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all the parts on the way carl? ;)
enemy your running out of time ;D
"Time" is an agreed upon construct..
And I no longer agree with it!
I just need to explain that to the turbo, the header, the power steering, the shock revalve, the alignment, and the tuning.
See, plenty of time!
I just spoke to the 6 of them and they nOw understand.
Damn head studs and base gasket miss del today because I wasn’t her. Shit I gotta work to pay for this stuff. beathorse.gif~c200
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i have spent the last 2 night trying to figure out why my furnace won't work in the camper.
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On an RV I once had , I had to remove the gas orifice and blow it out every trip. It would work perfectly during trip but if it sat unused for even a week I had to once again remove it and blow it out.I never found out why it would plug up. I just kept a 5/16" (I think it was 5/16)inside the outside furnace door so it was handy every time.
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that might have been irratating but doable once a year. in my case i have a high efficiency furnace. mine is mounted flat under the countertop with all the electrical to the back wall. the t stat has a small control board in it and send a signal to a control board in the roof ac unit then then send a signal to the control board on the furnace itself. from there it trips a relay that turns the brushless 12 v fan motor on that has to actual fans attached to it. one is for interior and other is for furnace vent. it is supposed to have a time delay relay so the fan will purge the exh vent before igniting. i cannot fing that time delay relay on the furnace. i pulled it out to find that they didnt put a quick disconnect on it so had to cut the wires and then re crimp. the board must handle the time delay. but the fan wont turn on and it has to turn on first. i hot wired it and it runs fine. i traced output from t stat to ceiling ac unit and then verified 2 wires with batt volts leave and head to furnace. i now need to pull the furnace again and now check to make sure those 2 wires reach the board and that a mouse didnt eat one in a wall. if it does then i prob need a new control board at the furnace. spent prob 14 hrs testing circuits and chasing wires through the camper. put the furnace back in to re coonect just to see if the fan turns on. i will make and extension courd this time. these new systems are a little more complicated now a days.
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the thermostat is nice. i can set a 1* or 2* diff before furnace or ac restarts. i can also set it so the ac fan runs on auto, low or high while the furnace runs or on and off with it. and of course auto, low or high continuous while ac runs/cycles. its when 1 of 3 boards takes a dump that its not so nice lol
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Everything is waaaaayyyyyyyy to complicated today.You have my sympathy.
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i do not have nor can i find a schematic on the control boards themselves. if i could find them i could check each board and i only say that as they like to discontinue the older designs and sell you all new ones for the new designs and then you have to buy the t stat to go with it. we'll see tonight hopefully, many many have the time delay relay fail as that is what activates after the fan turns on then it sends power to gas pressure switch which opens the gas valve and turns the igniter on. now from what i can tell i can convert the roof ac back to a manual control with knobs at the ac then wire in a standard lever styl t stat to the furnace.
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I just add more wood when it's cold. Hope you find the gremlin
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Older ones and home have to lower the fan thru a sail switch to turn gas on. KISS why they screw w that I don’t know.
But did get my adj cam gears. Now if other crap will show maybe fire soon.
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i found the problem! only 20 hrs but i found it. well the way it works is 2 wires from thermostat, 1 to furnace and 1 to circuit board in ac unit. 12v comes out of both wires so hot at furnace and hot to ac unit board. relay at ac unit board trips and send that 12 v down to furnace also. 12v is coupled to a on off toggle like switch that is worthless and you have to pull the furnace to access it! other 12 v wire from ac unit goes to 3 wires that they used spade connectoers to couple together. out of that 3 way, 1 wired goes to temp snap switch then out of that to sail switch. 2nd lead goes to 4 wire connection at circuit board on furnace. that wire activates the other side of a relay that starts the fan motor. fan has to start to trip sail switch that trips gas valve which also activates ignitor. so i had this furnace standing on end resting up against my lap while tracing 12v from both wires to all there connections and out of that 3 way i only had 12v on 2 wires. so i went to disconnect that spade connector and the fan turned on. scared the $hit out of me and i damn near jumped through the window! rofl dead quiet and watching v meter and the damn fans turn on and start vibtaing in my lap rofl so they must have ran out of one kind of connector so grabbed a cheap $hitty one and it broke internally and sparked and burnt the connection until i touched it. crimped all 3 so no spade connecters to eliminate this issue. the time delay relay is integrated into the circuit board which is what that 3rd leg energizes. there is no reason they need to assemble connections like that!!!! so sorry carl back to the zx12r report lol
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Problem w crimp connectors is squeeze em too tight cut half the cheap ass wires they prob use. Add way DS runs the bumpy rds and broke wire. Lol. Glad ya fig out.
Now if I can fig out getting tiny broke tstat housing bolt from head. Two were broke of 4. Not sure but must have used locktight? the broke bolt removing. Seized up good.
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thanks
map gas and a left handed drill bit may work. that really sucks wen bolts break!
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Good fine. I bet that was a real hair puller.
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Problem w crimp connectors is squeeze em too tight cut half the cheap ass wires they prob use. Add way DS runs the bumpy rds and broke wire. Lol. Glad ya fig out.
This is why I try to use only very high quality connectors . If building a harness I will only use deutsch or amp sealed connectors for 99% of all connections.I like rock solid reliable.
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Good fine. I bet that was a real hair puller.
i was happy it wasnt the control board as i bet its been discontinued!
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Problem w crimp connectors is squeeze em too tight cut half the cheap ass wires they prob use. Add way DS runs the bumpy rds and broke wire. Lol. Glad ya fig out.
This is why I try to use only very high quality connectors . If building a harness I will only use deutsch or amp sealed connectors for 99% of all connections.I like rock solid reliable.
i completely understand! this furnace did not need to be wired together using spade connectors nor did they need to use standard t stat wire from t stat to roof ac then back down to the furnace. that is tiny solid wire that doesn't like to be wiggled much lol . no matter what i have always known camper are kindling on 4 wheels lol
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Finally some progress head studs and spacer plate. Now if slow head gasket would show. But looks like Monday dang it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mnjv65Bk/8-FE3588-C-F0-F8-4-AC5-8-F3-D-58-FBF49199-D4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mnjv65Bk)
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come on head gasket!! making some progress
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Motor built and back in. Wired up and finishing plumbing. Fingers crossed for a test fire soon.
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Hell yea!
You musta went all-out this weekend!
I'm still working on a header, getting close but now have to switch intake and exhaust plumbing completely around.
We need a "Phuck"emoji... but too many ways to use the word
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Motor built and back in. Wired up and finishing plumbing. Fingers crossed for a test fire soon.
your a animal
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did it fire off?
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Too busy for updates.
But she did fire off last night. Still buttoning up things. But hopefully I’m back on!
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8) 8) 8)
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good to hear!
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cool, good to hear its running aging.
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So fired off first time let idle for 5 min trying to flush out. Drain oil. Sat for few days doing couple other things, refilled oil new filter now a hard spot while cranking. Very hard to start or not start just crank. So looking coils had water around them and plugs, cleaned and dried. Still same
Pull plugs motor spins lovely
Put plugs back in no coils spins perfect
Coils have good spark layed against head.
My thought timing? I’ll check that next I guess. Any other ideas
Trying to attach short video to help
https://www.facebook.com/100010553495491/posts/830160114012431?sfns=mo
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I would definitely check timing before anything else other than making sure firing order is right.
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first once put the coils back on now that 1 or 2 of them aren't submerged and crank it again. if it does it still then i agree with fabr, check timing. shorting the coil discharge into the block does weird things with everything attached to the block. like the starter lol
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Valve cover s number stamped as coil harness is too soooo I think they are right but 5:
Really not enough room for chain to jump a tooth but I’ll check.
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If the chain jumped a tooth you will usually have low (maybe it's high-it's been a long time since I had to check it)compression.
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or cam sensor ;D
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or cam sensor ;D
Just for that no Jack, or whole bottle let’s see. Pick one up today along with coils. Same guy go figure. Gonna see what else he has, maybe a running motor
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I have spark and timing is good. But not fuel from inj? Squirt of fuel and fire off for a bit. Pump works pressure 43psi. Thinking elec signal to inj. Gonna check fuse. Have looked harness wiggled plugs. Had a bad rain and she wasn’t covered and that when this happened.
Any other ideas?
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I would pull apart all electrical connections that you can get to, that deal with injectors, ECU, etc and blow them out, maybe a electric cleaner spray. Also checks ground wires, the frame attach points could rust.
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What signal controls the injectors firing? Cam? I assume it is sequential so I also assume it is the cam sensor that controls the injectors. Bad cam sensor or associated wiring would not allow injectors to fire but would still fire off fuel squirted into intake correctly. Hell,I don't know.
+1 on Mitch's/budlights suggestion also.
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Well cased it down. Loose ground on engine. Guess I fingered it tight thinking I’d come back and tighten up. Duhhhh. It runs!! Gonna throw a n new plugs. Another oil change and couple little stuff then load. Still have a funny crank sometimes. Maybe the starter? Stator wire and reg warmer than I remember but it’s charging.
Load time but a side trip first. Always down to the wire lol
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well atleast you found it and its running again. that is frustrating for sure.
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There is no luck like Carl luck!!
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now isn't that the truth!! ;) ;) ;D
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i do hope that slight surge he is hearing on cranking isn't a cyl slighty out of round from the freezing.
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i do hope that slight surge he is hearing on cranking isn't a cyl slighty out of round from the freezing.
Doesnt do it all the time, leaning toward bad spot in starter. Come on Carl luck, I may pu a lotto ticket!!