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Offline fabr

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Loading turret problem
« on: July 02, 2009, 06:34:04 PM »
Trying to load  toolchanger turret on Fadal VMC. When I do a TC,1 command the head travels to max Z travel and then trips the E-stop. Any ides on what the issue is?
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Offline Doug Heim

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 07:44:52 PM »
Is the control strictly G-code or is there some conversational programming? Sorry Im not familiar with the machine and the control your using but would like to offer any help I can.

Is there a limit switch that activates when the machine is at the Z-axis for tool changing? If so is it faulty?

Is the machine's "true position" set correctly for the z axis?
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Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 08:13:07 PM »
Quote from: Doug Heim on July 02, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
Is the control strictly G-code or is there some conversational programming? Sorry Im not familiar with the machine and the control your using but would like to offer any help I can.

Is there a limit switch that activates when the machine is at the Z-axis for tool changing? If so is it faulty?

Is the machine's "true position" set correctly for the z axis?
It's all g code. It will do a tool change but when it dwells at top of Z axis to allow a tool to be loaded manually into the turret it goes into E stop due to axis overload since it is still trying to travel higher than physically possible. The Fadal uses travel of ballscrew-I assume number of revolutions- to determine x,y and z axis position. No limit switches or the like. so far I have found no way to adjust the axis travel limit. i believe there must be a way . 
Hmmmm, I just thought about something.There is a "rod" that runs along side the z axis that MAY have something to with where the physical travel limit is at. I need to check that out.
 july 4th is our 13th anniversary so I may have to wait till Sunday.The suspense will kill me. Might have to sneak back from the lake for a bit saturday.  ;D ;D GOt a great wife. She understands my shitheadedness. VERY 8) to be so lucky!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 08:14:09 PM »
Oh and the home position is set correctly. The machine will change a tool .It just faults when trying to load the turret with tools.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 08:15:13 PM »
Hey ,Spec,go down to mumblers shop and ask him what he thinks.I bet he can help out.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 09:22:09 PM »
If you asked this about two yrs ago i wouldnt even blink,i lived on a fadal 40 20/60 40 for many yrs.However it escapes me now.I do remember them having consistent problems with the ATCs though.Also the ones i was familiar with had an encoder mounted on top of the "z" motor that would come loose or go bad and try to drive the "z" through the table!Ask me how i know!

Just some random thoughts,
You can load more than one tool in the carriage,starting with tool one?
You can "set" tool one?
Is there a tool height set in the tool chart that may be tool long?
Can you jog the z ok without getting an alarm?
Can you manually load a tool and jog the z to the top?
And last, do you know how to home the axis?

Good luck ,keep us posted.
Also try the cnc zone,some real gurus on there.

Woops ,just read you homed it already.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 09:24:11 PM by Hammerworks »
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Offline Doug Heim

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 09:54:45 PM »
You must be able to set it in the common perameters.

Thats how I set stops on the Lathe I run. It stops travel before it faults the servo. There must be a parameter for that ?
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Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 10:11:20 PM »
Quote from: Doug Heim on July 02, 2009, 09:54:45 PM
You must be able to set it in the common perameters.

Thats how I set stops on the Lathe I run. It stops travel before it faults the servo. There must be a parameter for that ?
One would think but I haven't found it.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 10:14:12 PM »
Quote from: Hammerworks on July 02, 2009, 09:22:09 PM
If you asked this about two yrs ago i wouldnt even blink,i lived on a fadal 40 20/60 40 for many yrs.However it escapes me now.I do remember them having consistent problems with the ATCs though.Also the ones i was familiar with had an encoder mounted on top of the "z" motor that would come loose or go bad and try to drive the "z" through the table!Ask me how i know!

Just some random thoughts,
You can load more than one tool in the carriage,starting with tool one?
You can "set" tool one?
Is there a tool height set in the tool chart that may be tool long?
Can you jog the z ok without getting an alarm?
Can you manually load a tool and jog the z to the top?
And last, do you know how to home the axis?

Good luck ,keep us posted.
Also try the cnc zone,some real gurus on there.

Woops ,just read you homed it already.

Can't load turret since the tool load command is what is giving trouble. it will go through all the motions for a tool change out tho.
 I'll check the tool heights but I don't think so.
Z jogs just fine.
 CNC zone is my next stop.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

SPEC

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2009, 06:11:48 AM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on July 02, 2009, 08:15:13 PM
Hey ,Spec,go down to mumblers shop and ask him what he thinks.I bet he can help out.



I'd love to ...Only one problem...They think he had a stroke or has an ugly case of MS :-[
I'm running out to his house today to check up on him...
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Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2009, 09:50:55 AM »
Are you putting the tool in the spindle ,then trying to load it into the carousel?Or are you loading the carousel then trying to load a tool into the spindle?

I cant remember the command(might be TC1) but,it brings the carousel over and opens the guard so you can load all the tools,then you load the tool you want to be tool one in the spindle and type in "T1",that "sets" tool one.

Sound familiar?

Can you post a pic of your controller and maybe one of the turret/spindle?
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Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2009, 12:34:51 PM »
Yes using the tc,1 command to load the turret the head travels to top of z axis and then faults.I know how to do the change and load procedure-M6Tx. The z is appaerntly trying to overtravel and faults/goes into e-stop in less than a second.  It will do a M6Tx command without faulting but does slam at top of Z travel.  It's an over travel in Z+ that is the issue  I'm sure doing a TC,1 . Possibly a resolver problem on Z? That's what I'm going to check out next anyway.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 12:36:35 PM by Masterfabr »
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 05:28:06 PM »
OK,did a bit more checking out the issue.I finally thought about jogging Z +4.0" above the tool changer position and it over traveled and faulted.WTF? It traveled 4.75".  So I tried it at Z+2.0 and the head traveled 3.25 approx. inches.WTF again! So I checked X and Y axis at 5.0 inches and they traveled almost 9"! WTF????????? Apparently I have an issue with whatever determines the travel of ALL the axis. Any ideas?
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 06:51:46 PM »
Nope!
Are the new screws the same pitch as the old ones?
Is it set for metric measurements?
 
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Offline fabr

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Re: Loading turret problem
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 07:05:56 PM »
Set to inch and only the z ballscrew has been replaced so far. Same pitch as old. I see a g code of G51.3 called axis scaling that allows x ,y and z to be scaled a factor of whatever you want. 
Such as :

G51.3 Axis Scaling This allows the programmer to scale all or individual axis dimensions. The
G51.3 code with the R1# parameter will scale all axes. The R2# will scale the X
axis only. The R3# is used for the Y axis, and the R4# for the Z axis. The # with
the parameters represents a percentage to scale. The percentage is
represented in the decimal form. For example 2.0 would double the size, .5
would half the size.
EXAMPLE: N1 O1 (PART 1234
** Cut part **
N2 M6T1 (TOOL #1
N3 G0 G90 S2500 M3 E1 X0Y0
N4 H1 D1 Z.1
N4 G51.3 R1+2. Scale all axes by 2 times scale factor 2
** Cut part **
N4074 G51.3 R1+1. Cancel scaling or scale factor 1
N4075 G0 G90 H0 Z0


Is it modal or not? If so that might be the problem???
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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