DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: Engineer on December 20, 2008, 09:15:46 AM
-
Ok, I have seen it done both ways, but give me some of the pros and cons of mounting to the spindle with the bolt horizontal or vertical. I understand that a rod end is stronger with the bolt horizontal. In the vertical application a ball and cup is usually used on the lower arm.
Do you get plenty of steering movement with the rod end/horizontal mount/high misalignment spacers? It seems that this is the easiest way. Anyone ever had a lower rod end fail?
I have seen some top end sand, and desert race cars mounted with the ball and cup, with the bolt vertical. Is it just overkill or is there good reason for it?
-
ball and cup allows for far more angles in up and down and steering, I found there is plenty of steering with the bolt horizontial in a heim... you could even use a 1" heim and reduce it to 1/2 if you want more...
-
The only thing I found was I had to use a good F&k heim at the top of my spindle to get my full steering cause it got just a little more angle. I have seen a couple buddys cars have failed heims when the bolt is vertical. They broke bolts and heims. Its hart to double shear the heims with the bolt vertical. Oh and I use 3/4" with 3/4 by 1/2 misallignments.
-
The bolts really need to be horizontal..And in double shear...I've built both ways and when the bolt is vertical your stressing the weakest part of the heim with shock loads of the wheel/tire movement thruout the range of the suspension...I have a shoebox of broken ends to prove this ..
-
I think people design spindles with a vertical bolt cause they are cheap and easy to make. No trips to the waterjet guy! I have a set programed at my waterjet guys shop with the bolts that go horizontal. I cant remember how much camber is built in them but I can find out and see how cheap I can get them cut for. They use vw stub axles so its easy to get wheels and brakes for them also. and the heims are 7" center to center.
-
Ya I spent a shit load of time with the mumbler to get the bugs worked out when I designed my front hubs and spindles
-
Thanks for the input guys!
-
Your welcome
-
If you want to go all out you can do uniballs. That is the best you are going to get. They are just a but pricey.
-
There is one more option, For larger cars... One that has been proven to be nearly indestructable... that is the screw in ball joints we use on Full size race cars...In My builds they are just too big and cumbersome...I'll get some pix next time i'm out to the shop...Oh wait that is now to feed the ''big hungry''
-
If you want to go all out you can do uniballs. That is the best you are going to get. They are just a but pricey.
Thats what he is talking about with ball and cups...
-
Really horizontal or vertical are both incorrect ways to use a heim. A heim is strongest in compression ,next strongest in tension and much weaker is horizontal/vertical. However if not put in a bind they are more than sufficient for the job if sized properly. Uniballs are actually nothing more than a fancy heim without the body.They are used primarily on larger stuff because they are far more compact than a similar sized heim . As for double shear,I feel that if a heim is used horizontally top and bottom then in effect they are in double shear even without a tab on both sides of each heim. IMO only of course.
-
A uniball is a comm bearing, fits into a tube, they use them primarily from what I have seen because of the size, they generally are in the 1" plus range which offers huge angles when reduce, And if you really get technical, they are far superior to arm building as you can dead the end of both tubes into the housing, unlike having to bring one tube into the side of another to have a hole left for the bung...
-
I have seen some rhino long travel kits with some 3/4 uniballs on the arms.
-
I have seen some rhino long travel kits with some 3/4 uniballs on the arms.
you can get them in 1/4" if thats your fancy, if you look at most of the big v8 cars and such, they likely are in the 1.5" range...
-
-
I was looking to mount the Cup in sheet metal. 8) 8) 8) To heavy to make a square bung that holds the heim....... I will have to draw a picture...... Now where is my crayon? ;D
-
uni's ...... way to expensive for a quality one ....
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Uniball-Bearing-2125quot-OD-w-10quot-bore_p_1614.html (http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Uniball-Bearing-2125quot-OD-w-10quot-bore_p_1614.html)
these aren't bad ....
-
Aurora and others offer the same thing(non rebuildable) in all sizes but you'd have to make your own cup..Don't know about QA-1 tho.
-
Aurora and others offer the same thing(non rebuildable) in all sizes but you'd have to make your own cup..Don't know about QA-1 tho.
Qa1 has them, with cups... ;D
-
What sizes of them and what is the corresponding cop dimensions .I assume 3/4 and 1" but what about any other size.Also are they kevlar/teflon and are they rebuildable ? Fill us in man!!!! LOL!!!
-
What sizes of them and what is the corresponding cop dimensions .I assume 3/4 and 1" but what about any other size.Also are they kevlar/teflon and are they rebuildable ? Fill us in man!!!! LOL!!!
Well, if they come with a cup they are obviously rebuild able, take out bearing throw in trash, replace bearing.... They do have teflon kevlar ones, same quality as the rod ends...Ill see if i can hunt up some specs.... they come all the way to 1.5" i think...
-
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fqa1.thomasnet.com%2FAsset%2FAD-83.gif&hash=3c7e814828809f31e6514af0bfbdaf868894edf9)
Ill dig up the specs later, probbaly will have to call them....the cup and bearings are about 40.00
-
True (or what I understand them to be called)uniballs are completely rebuildable.Disassemble ,replace liner,reassemble.
-
The ball and race is reused unless damaged.
-
-
A uni ball assembly is rebuildable, that means remove the com bearing, which is only a heim joint with no stud and a nice machined edge, and replace it in the cup... I dont see anyway possible to rebuild the bearing part and inject a new teflon kevlar race.... as you can see in the pic, the one with no threads is a uni ball assembly, the bearing comes out with a snap ring on one side.... the weldables are not cast....
-
These are qa1 parts...
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Uniball-Bearing-2125quot-OD-w-10quot-bore_p_1614.html (http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Uniball-Bearing-2125quot-OD-w-10quot-bore_p_1614.html)
-
-
So can anyone say how many degrees they actually get with their steering? And what limits the steering... Rack or Hiems? Do you just let it turn till it binds up at the rod ends? This would seem dangerous if the heims were at the limit, then you hit a bump......
-
Limit it at the rack.... yoshi says he limits his by adding a ball bearing under the cover.... Most small cars use 3/4 heims with 1/2 high mis adapters....So you get about 30 degrees each way...
-
-
Please do a search. I know what you are showing.You are apparently unaware of those that I'm talking about tho..
I found them, thats why i posted i was wrong....Qa1 is not rebuildable i dont believe, only replaceable, is my take via the description....
-
And actually you wouldn't use a ball bearing in there or at least I wouldn't.To me that would be concentrating the force and possibly blow out end of rack box sooner or later. .An aluminum spacer would be good tho.
-
From what I know the rebuildable ones I'm referring to are like1 1/4 or some stuff like that. I need to look them up but I doubt many here are interested in the ones I'm talking about. Too big.
-
Ballistic sells them as well...
-
-
um ...... ? pete and repete were in a boat ...
Pete and repete would be in the boat, If you told the manufacturer.... cc: gg: gg: gg: ff: