Chain Heat Testing

[standfast]

I decided to start testing how beneficial airflow to the chain would be.  I ran my car up to 60mph in 6th gear with the gearbox in neutral for 5 minutes continuous.  Before the test the chain was at a ambient 84*.  After the 5 minutes of run time my chain was at 206*. 

I let the chain cool all back down to ambient. I set the air compressor at 40psi and applied the airflow to the topside of the chain so it was spraying on the barrels and sideplates right near the topside of the drive sprocket.  Ran it for the 5 minutes at 60mph again.  No change really. It still got to 205-207 degees. 

Maybe there is a better way to apply airflow to the chain but this doesn't look like it is gonna work.  It's gonna be hard to generate that kind of focussed airflow with any fan or blower. 

Now I know this is a "no load" test but I am pretty sure most of the heat problems come from chain speed and not so much the load based on time spent at low speed and high speed in the car when problems arrive. 

Images were taken with a Fluke TiR1 infrared imager.

Chain at speed just before the 5 minute mark with airflow.  Temp was measured at the sideplates.  Temp on barrels was about 20* hotter.  I was just using the sideplate as a reference since it was a safer part to measure with the chain at speed.


This image was take after I stopped a test.  Notice how much more heat there is at the master link?  It was 30* hotter at this point after the test.  This makes sense because all the failures we have had are near the master links.  This chain has a rivet link on it.  It doesn't matter whether we use a clip link or a rivet link. 


Here is another image of the master link after a test.  When looking at the chains that have failed so far they burn the the o rings in the links next to the master links.  This is on both my car and the sinister cars.  Is this where others are noticing initial o-ring failure as well?  I am stuffing lube into the masterlinks when I put the chains together. 


I am fairly convinced that airflow is not a viable solution at this point unless someone has a better idea to apply the air somehow.  I can test it if it is fairly easy to do but if this didn't seems to make ANY difference, I don't see how something else is gonna be the solution.

I am now starting to consider trying dual 420 chains like RickS did with the Geo car and like bugpac was suggesting.  I was thinking dual 530's but I think 420's would generate less heat in the first place and that is the goal isn't it?  I am just not sure if the combination of the two of them is going to be as strong as a single 630 like I am running now.

You can see how the sections near the master link are burning up at somepoint in this vid.  I think this is a chain off the black sinister car that I just replaced the other day.  This is a RK 630 GSV X-ring chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgnO9Ehi1G0&feature=channel_page

[fabr]

I decided to start testing how beneficial airflow to the chain would be.  I ran my car up to 60mph in 6th gear with the gearbox in neutral for 5 minutes continuous.  Before the test the chain was at a ambient 84*.  After the 5 minutes of run time my chain was at 206*. 

I let the chain cool all back down to ambient. I set the air compressor at 40psi and applied the airflow to the topside of the chain so it was spraying on the barrels and sideplates right near the topside of the drive sprocket.  Ran it for the 5 minutes at 60mph again.  No change really. It still got to 205-207 degees. 

Maybe there is a better way to apply airflow to the chain but this doesn't look like it is gonna work.  It's gonna be hard to generate that kind of focussed airflow with any fan or blower. 

Now I know this is a "no load" test but I am pretty sure most of the heat problems come from chain speed and not so much the load based on time spent at low speed and high speed in the car when problems arrive. 

Images were taken with a Fluke TiR1 infrared imager.

Chain at speed just before the 5 minute mark with airflow.  Temp was measured at the sideplates.  Temp on barrels was about 20* hotter.  I was just using the sideplate as a reference since it was a safer part to measure with the chain at speed.


This image was take after I stopped a test.  Notice how much more heat there is at the master link?  It was 30* hotter at this point after the test.  This makes sense because all the failures we have had are near the master links.  This chain has a rivet link on it.  It doesn't matter whether we use a clip link or a rivet link. 


Here is another image of the master link after a test.  When looking at the chains that have failed so far they burn the the o rings in the links next to the master links.  This is on both my car and the sinister cars.  Is this where others are noticing initial o-ring failure as well?  I am stuffing lube into the masterlinks when I put the chains together. 


I am fairly convinced that airflow is not a viable solution at this point unless someone has a better idea to apply the air somehow. I can test it if it is fairly easy to do but if this didn't seems to make ANY difference, I don't see how something else is gonna be the solution.

I am now starting to consider trying dual 420 chains like RickS did with the Geo car and like bugpac was suggesting.  I was thinking dual 530's but I think 420's would generate less heat in the first place and that is the goal isn't it?   I am just not sure if the combination of the two of them is going to be as strong as a single 630 like I am running now.

You can see how the s

Opinion only here but I feel that it's not the focus but rather the very short time the chain has to cool in the airflow before again being subject to reheating
Great write up! Very informative.Thank you.

[standfast]

Is anyone else seeing their failure near the masterlink like this?  Whats up with that? 

[dsrace]

Is anyone else seeing their failure near the masterlink like this?  Whats up with that?

great information and you put some time into this!!  I don't know that enemy has had a masterlink fail but I bet he will chime in before to long. his rail might be my design but he the one putting the hurt to it for testing!!

[Yoshi]

Your were focusing the air on to one point of the chain, a fan will actually blow air across a 4"+ diameter from the middle of the sprocket out.  Can you back the blower up so it pushing air over roughly a 4" circle, and aim it right at the center of the sprocket to see if that changes the results?......

[Yoshi]

I'm also concerned about how fast the air was moving, larger, slower air moving fans are actually quite a bit better for cooling....

[Enemy]

Is anyone else seeing their failure near the masterlink like this?  Whats up with that?

That is a question I wonder the answer to as well. My last chain I would of had to cut the masterlink to remove it, for it pretty much welded itself in place. I also notice the most rainbow of colors around the masterlink as well.
 Great investigating you are doing standfast!!

[fabr]

I'll guess that the masterlinks whether riveted or clip type loose their lube first. Writeups like this are very useful. Again ,thanks stand, for the great info.

[Dunebound69]

 I'm also concerned about how fast the air was moving, larger, slower air moving fans are actually quite a bit better for cooling....

Yoshi I thing the fast are would have helped cooling. Think of windchill in the winter. The harder it blows the worse it becomes. Air has a low specific heat, it heats and cools quickly. You need a higher volume of air to cool than oil or h2o. On my rail the rad fan move 2500 cfm.

Nice work Standfast.

I was looking at my air compressor the other day. The pulley on the pump has fan blades shapes for the spokes. Has anyone ever made a sprocket like that. Cool the mass of the sprocket and let it cool the chain. Just a thought.

[Nutz4sand]

Heat takes time....

Heat takes time to move from one place to another.
Trying the same test with air blowing into a device that creates an "air knife" if you will and covers as large an area as possible would be an interesting addition to the test.

If its to hard to get the air blowing out a long slot a simple smaller piece of PVC tube with many holes directed towards the chain would do I would think.

At the same time a simple smaller fan farther aways just for a control test might yield some results? Good or bad?     

[standfast]

What are you guys thinking?  Like a small radiator fan blowing into the drive sprocket?  I can probably rig that up.  I
have a couple of stock fans from a busa here.  I seriously doubt it would make the kind of difference needed though.  I
am looking to get the temps down like 50+ degrees at least in this same test to make it worth it. 

[Nutz4sand]

Arrowhead claimed he was using a bilge pump or something like that.

Even a hand held hair dryer set on cool would move air in a casually way. Could try it a foot out. Then in closer?

[Nutz4sand]

I would also be curius about the heat opn the CENTER of each sprocket (drive AND driven)

Also as noted on MBN ny another person (I am still DL-ing the video. I LOVE dialup!)  the temp seems to hang along and then really go up at one point. All of a sudden kinda?

Is this due to to motor heat reaching the front sprocket and entering the chain there?? ?? ?? ?? ??

Might have to monitor engine heat to to see if that is just when the chain heat climbs too.

[dsrace]

What are you guys thinking?  Like a small radiator fan blowing into the drive sprocket?  I can probably rig that up.  I
have a couple of stock fans from a busa here.  I seriously doubt it would make the kind of difference needed though. I am looking to get the temps down like 50+ degrees at least in this same test to make it worth it.

 I just don't see a small fan bringing temps down this low if much at all. don't get me wrong if a fan would work that would be great.  I still think the solution is to go to a 530 or 525 chain and increase sprocket size like ( #'s for example only ) from a 14 tooth counter shaft to 18 tooth and drive sprocket from 24 tooth to 31 tooth to add links and decrease wrap angle.   standfast you have posted what everyone has wanted to see so I say thanks and if you get the chance to make the same test with smaller chain and larger sprockets that please post up!

[Doug Heim]

Dont want to sound like I smart ass but Yoshi's cars dont have chain issues right?  :P