DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV General Discussion => Topic started by: Enemy on April 03, 2009, 10:12:34 PM
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How many PSI do you guys like to run in your paddles and why? I'm still a bit up in the air on my final decision. I've been used to paddles behind a wicked Banshee for the last 20 years so the car is a different feel. Last time out to the dunes, I had to run more and more pressure to keep the beads from blowing off the rims. I started with 14psi and it felt great. When I got to 24psi (it was necessary!) I lost tons of traction. So now I have added rim screws to keep the rim to bead relationship happy ;) (worked for me on the drag stuff) SO where should I start? I'm thinking 15psi. ???
Rims-15x9 Centerline Convo-Pro
Tire-15x11 Sand Viper
PSI- ??
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Id think about some beadlocks, even 15 psi with a huge tire will roll off the bead... Maybe the screws will work... Be safe whatever you do...
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I'm with Bug,
I run alot smaller paddles... 22" at 12 psi with Beadlocks...
Rim screws are great for straight line ...But the side loads on the dunes and powersliding the screws won't hold, and end up damaging the bead on the tire when they peel off
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But some beadlocks. Spec and bug have it right. Screws are only for drag race use.
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I run about 8-9 psi, but beadlocks are standard for anything I build (and from what i've heard abut your rail, you should too, lol). Lower psi gives more traction and a softer ride.....
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powersliding the screws won't hold
Not a problem there with this worthless open diff BS!! Hence the reason I am running screws this trip ;) WHEN the rear of this car gets locked up, I will be switching to beadlocks. Just curious of the lowest psi I can get away with. Thanks Yoshi, I will start around there. :)
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Not a problem there with this worthless open diff BS!! Hence the reason I am running screws this trip ;) WHEN the rear of this car gets locked up, I will be switching to beadlocks. Just curious of the lowest psi I can get away with. Thanks Yoshi, I will start around there. :)
Well you can get away with the lowest psi before the tire dismounts anyways, does that answer your question? ;D
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I run 6 psi with my bead locks. Is that too soft?
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You can also have your wheels turned into beadlocks for fairly cheap. there is a guy here in san diego that does them installed for $50 a wheel
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I run 6 psi with my bead locks. Is that too soft?
6 psi, hell i run 3 non beadlock on atv rims...
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I've run them as low as 5 psi, but wasn't to fond of the body roll, so I usually don't run less than 7 or 8 now.....
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Whatever you decide, please make sure I can still see it run on Friday when I show up. ;D
Most of the beadlocks are only on the outside anyways, so if the inner bead slipped you could tear up a tire. Expensive wheels in your future.
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It's no use..... I still want a turbo! ;D At least get us some video's ;D ;D ;D
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Ahh dont worry my friend. I am bringing enough parts to rebuild any corner of the buggy if I have a misshap. I never needed spare parts but this will be the furthest travel so I hate to need somthing and not have it.
Extra parts include and not limited to...
-full CVs, boots, and axles
-Chain , masters (2), various front sprockets
-Rear tire and rim
-misc hardware galore
-rodends and spacers galore
-steering rack
-full set of A-arms for all 4 corners
-shift and throttle cables
-fully assembled uprights for all 4 corners with brakes
-center drive unit
-tierods & boots
-shocks for all 4 corners
I know I have more packed but cant remember it all.
Did I leave anything out?
Just FYI its not that I dont have faith in my machine. Accidents do happen.
Odds are you will see it run on Friday!
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http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php (http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php)
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http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php (http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php)
Nice link! Great information on there
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You can also have your wheels turned into beadlocks for fairly cheap. there is a guy here in san diego that does them installed for $50 a wheel
I will look into going this direction some more. I would really like to keep my Centerlines :) Do you have a name for the guy?
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Ahh dont worry my friend. I am bringing enough parts to rebuild any corner of the buggy if I have a misshap. I never needed spare parts but this will be the furthest travel so I hate to need somthing and not have it.
Extra parts include and not limited to...
-full CVs, boots, and axles
-Chain , masters (2), various front sprockets
-Rear tire and rim
-misc hardware galore
-rodends and spacers galore
-steering rack
-full set of A-arms for all 4 corners
-shift and throttle cables
-fully assembled uprights for all 4 corners with brakes
-center drive unit
-tierods & boots
-shocks for all 4 corners
I know I have more packed but cant remember it all.
Did I leave anything out?
Just FYI its not that I dont have faith in my machine. Accidents do happen.
Odds are you will see it run on Friday!
So how much for that complete car kit to be left at my house on the way home? Sounds like a motor and frame short of a test drive. ;D
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http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php (http://www.staunproducts.com/beadlock.php)
I think the Aussies have the best idea on this! Stealth beadlocks. Any idea what they cost? The USA link on their site wouldn't work for me.
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I will look into going this direction some more. I would really like to keep my Centerlines :) Do you have a name for the guy?
Fullerton tires will convert for you, Champion will convert also.There's quite a few places that do it.Google it up.
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I find it a bit amusing that in all this talk about how much psi to run that no one ,not even engineer, has said a thing about the importance tire size and the buggy weight in determining what is right.
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I am curious to those specs fabber, I see yoshi say many times he ran 31" tires for safety reasons, IMO smaller rubber larger wheel is always safest, Less sidewall Squish, What is your opinion there fabber, I have yet to see any guidelines on tire size for sand rails...
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I'm running 31" also.I don't see any safety advantage tho.Wheel size IMO is dependent on what size buggy you're building and use. What I was getting at tho is that 5# in a 12"x31" 15" wheel tire will support substantially more than a 8x25x12"wheel will also at 5#.
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I find it a bit amusing that in all this talk about how much psi to run that no one ,not even engineer, has said a thing about the importance tire size and the buggy weight in determining what is right.
I have nothing to add, because I have no significant experience with larger than quad paddles. I would definately agree though that different weight's, power level's and driving preferences are going to change the number.
Also, your gauge probably reads different that anyone else's in the 10 lb area. When drag racing I noticed this, even with the "good" 0-20 psi gauges, they could be off a pound or two from the next guys, so trading tire pressure info was worthless IMO.
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Well then ,let's discuss what the purpose is in "airing down" and maybe that will make it clear why what is right for one buggy is too much/too little air pressure for another.
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Yes i am uncertain why 5lbs in one tire will support more than 5lbs in another... Seems to me 5lbs in a smaller tire would support more than in a larger tire...
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I think sidewall construction plays a major role in how much or little air you put in them, I think alot of paddles are constructed to do the wrinkle wall...IE..drag slicks.
Where the ones I buy have a little stiffer side wall cuz I run them on the trails and in the winter too
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I'm with Engineer on this one, most my experience is with quads and drag bike slicks..Last trip down I had to run 20psi + to keep from blowing the beads off in a straight line. I had some "interesting" ::) landings a few times and the bead stayed put. In the wet sand it worked out ok, but when everything dried out, I lost all traction with the psi so high.. So knowing that rim screws work on 6 second drag cars on the outside rim only, and bead locks only lock the outside of the rim, I figured this might work out.. I like turning myself into a lab-rat!!! ;D
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basic rule of thumb is you can air down until you start to see the sidewalls wrinkle a little bit, this will solve the problem of going off a universal psi number, and what i've done in the dunes when I had to air down and didn't have a gauge handy........
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basic rule of thumb is you can air down until you start to see the sidewalls wrinkle a little bit, this will solve the problem of going off a universal psi number, and what i've done in the dunes when I had to air down and didn't have a gauge handy........
+1
I'm with Engineer on this one, most my experience is with quads and drag bike slicks..Last trip down I had to run 20psi + to keep from blowing the beads off in a straight line. I had some "interesting" ::) landings a few times and the bead stayed put. In the wet sand it worked out ok, but when everything dried out, I lost all traction with the psi so high.. So knowing that rim screws work on 6 second drag cars on the outside rim only, and bead locks only lock the outside of the rim, I figured this might work out.. I like turning myself into a lab-rat!!! ;D
Hold on there a minute, who said anything about screws on one side on a drag car? I have always seen them inside and outside. And every drag race beadlock is both sides.
On sand cars, I don't know about high horsepower, but I believe that the main reason for a single beadlock on the outside is to keep from rolling the tire off the rim when turning and digging in. Because the weight is transfered to the outside, that is the side that is in jepoardy. It would be much less likely to knock off an inside bead. IMO that, and the cool look of beadlocks is why they are outside only on many sand applications.
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+1
Hold on there a minute, who said anything about screws on one side on a drag car? I have always seen them inside and outside. And every drag race beadlock is both sides.
On sand cars, I don't know about high horsepower, but I believe that the main reason for a single beadlock on the outside is to keep from rolling the tire off the rim when turning and digging in. Because the weight is transfered to the outside, that is the side that is in jepoardy. It would be much less likely to knock off an inside bead. IMO that, and the cool look of beadlocks is why they are outside only on many sand applications.
I'm seeing more and more of the big boy V8 car's running beadlocks on the inside and outside now. Getting to high in the air on the jumping now. 3000LB car 15 20 feet in the air. Can only imagine how much pressure rise is taking place in the tires when it hits the ground.
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I have always seen them inside and outside. And every drag race beadlock is both sides.
Than I was very missinformed! (and a couple of cars I have seen only had them on the outside...hmmm) I also assumed since I have only seen beadlocks on the outside (in the sand), the same would hold true for screws.
I should be okay in the sand I'm hoping for this trip. I cant get my road tires to slip one mm on the pavement!
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Enemy,IMO you will regret using screws in just the one side.In the early days we used screws on just the outside.A traction/HP grew it would let the tire twist torsionally on the wheel. Noit good since the next thing that would happen is the bead was ripped to shreds. I hope you're taking a spare set of paddles if we have wet sand. Dragrace beadlocks are double for that same reason. Double beadlocks are a real SOB to mount also.
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Enemy,IMO you will regret using screws in just the one side.In the early days we used screws on just the outside.A traction/HP grew it would let the tire twist torsionally on the wheel. Noit good since the next thing that would happen is the bead was ripped to shreds. I hope you're taking a spare set of paddles if we have wet sand. Dragrace beadlocks are double for that same reason. Double beadlocks are a real SOB to mount also.
Tonight, I'm gunna do the inside. Talked to another friend that over the last decade he has gotten his car into the 7's. He described what one has to go through to remove a tire from a rim that is screwed on one side and slipped the bead on the inside. Can you say "hacksaw"?? :o
If the sand goes wet (I hope it does..wheelie time!! :D) I will up the pressure for piece of mind..
But here is where I get fuzzy. How can a beadlock on the outside only, not have problems with the inside bead??? Isn't that what "most" cars are running in the sand, a single lock?
Once again, this is the kinda shit that keeps me awake at night,,lol
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In the early days we used screws on just the outside.
Man I bet that was a bitch.. Chisling all those little holes in stone wheels? All day project! ;D
...couldn't resist :m
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rEALLY YOU NEED TO imo UNDERSTAND WHY BEADLOCKS ARE USED OFFROAD. Beadlocks for drag race is to prevent spinning the tire on the rim. It takes a LOT of traction to do that and screws usually work well to prevent that. My doorslammer was 2600#'s approx and ran 7.80's.Never a problem with screws. Only VERY powerful drag cars will need beadlocks... For OUR purpose we use beadlocks to prevent the tire from unseating during turns. Tire pressure is what usually keeps that from happening.
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I grasp what you are saying and understand why you use one versus the other...AND should state that the only time my car sustains that kind of side load is when I really F-up a landing. Since my wonderful open diff blues keep me from EVER putting any load on the bead in turns. 9:
.....sucks.... no tokyo drift for me..
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I think the Aussies have the best idea on this! Stealth beadlocks. Any idea what they cost? The USA link on their site wouldn't work for me.
AFAIK, AU$135 but I've heard others say AU$170 each.
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You could go with the "Sik-a-flex beadlock" also known as the "hillbilly beadlock":
Run a bead of Sikaflex (http://www.sikacorp.com/) (polyurethane sealant) around the bead, after mounting but before inflation.
It will take "some effort" to replace the tyres though ;D
I have it on excellent authority these work well off-road ;)
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I find it a bit amusing that in all this talk about how much psi to run that no one ,not even engineer, has said a thing about the importance tire size and the buggy weight in determining what is right.
How about the ability to tune the suspension with low inflation of the tyre?
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THat's another topic.
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You could go with the "Sik-a-flex beadlock" also known as the "hillbilly beadlock":
Run a bead of Sikaflex (http://www.sikacorp.com/) (polyurethane sealant) around the bead, after mounting but before inflation.
It will take "some effort" to replace the tyres though ;D
I have it on excellent authority these work well off-road ;)
Sika products are the best PU caulks and sealants there is.Personally IF I were to use any it would be the NP-1. I wouldn't use it but IF I were to..........well let's just say that shit will stick anything together. Problem is with any of the moisture cure Sika products is that they will take about 2 days minimum to cure. Till then it will act as a lube.