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Author Topic: Battery cut-off  (Read 14132 times)

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trojan

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2009, 03:08:16 AM »
Quote from: Ozpilot on May 10, 2009, 06:12:46 PM
And I'll sit here in a quiet moment enjoying my last seconds of zero smites ...


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trojan

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2009, 04:56:30 AM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on May 10, 2009, 08:21:18 PM
Did you not see THIS? "And I thank you because I think you guys have converted me to a negative ground switch being preferrable."Hell ,you guys swayed me on something.You should be celebrating! It's a rare ocassion!! bb: mm:

Who are you? and what have you done with our Fab?
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Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2009, 06:09:24 AM »
I now want some ozzie to try to refute my take on jumping a car. Go ahead just try! LOL!!!! As for the switch being on the positive or negative I admit you convinced me only due to the possibility of backfeeding the electrical system a negative switch is best but as for charging/jumping procedure you'll have a real hard time convincing me that what I was taught is wrong. Positive is always connected first and negative is always removed last.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2009, 07:07:37 AM »
Also,for the record I only agree with the negative ground switch due to the possibility of someone incorrectly wiring in the alternator that would ,as engineer pointed out,and allow the engine to continue running when the switch is turned off.IF the alternator is wired correctly then the switch can be in either the positive or negative lead and serve the exact same purpose equally well.
Soooo,what is the correct wiring for an alternator that has to pass US sanctioning rules? Remember that NHRA and others require the switch be in the positive lead. So what is correct alternator wiring? Simple. When running a switch on the POSITIVE lead you MUST connect the alternator lead directly to the battery or to the switch terminal that is on the battery side of the switch. WHY you ask? Because if you connect the lead to the "car side" of the switch then the alternator will continue to energize the electrical system even when switched off and allow everything to still function and the car to continue running even though the battery is removed from the circuit. IF the system is correctly wired it is impossible to backfeed the system.That's the ONLY reason I see for any concern about which lead it is in..I assume it's the "idiot factor" that made Oz go with the negative switch and I feel it's a very good idea. You convinced me.Congrats. BUT here in the US it will not pass inspection with a switch in the negative lead. Bottom line is that you must satisfy the rules under which you run.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 07:12:52 AM by Masterfabr »
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

trojan

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2009, 09:12:12 AM »
Ahh there you are, glad to have ya back mate ;)

:-*
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Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2009, 10:52:29 AM »
I thought you were missing me. :m :t bb: dd:
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2009, 04:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on May 11, 2009, 06:09:24 AM
I now want some ozzie to try to refute my take on jumping a car. Go ahead just try! LOL!!!! As for the switch being on the positive or negative I admit you convinced me only due to the possibility of backfeeding the electrical system a negative switch is best but as for charging/jumping procedure you'll have a real hard time convincing me that what I was taught is wrong. Positive is always connected first and negative is always removed last.

Maaaate... lets go!

Actually, there is no arguement with this at all.... same here.

Now, WHY the ground is placed on the engine is where we differ. And from my back reading thats the only place we differ.....
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artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2009, 04:13:00 PM »
apart from you being a cranky arguementative................. ;D 8) ;D
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Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2009, 04:48:36 PM »
Well damn! ;D The reason on the placement is----think about this----the difference between series and parallel. Think now.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Ozpilot

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2009, 05:02:17 PM »
Well Fabr, I suppose the right answers for the wrong reasons are as good as we're gunna get - who cares - come and have a beer.
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Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2009, 05:13:33 PM »
This was just discussed in the context of parallel or series for lighting. Same principle applies and no argued the point there.Why is that?  AND where's my beer?LOL!!!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2009, 05:14:57 PM »
Quote from: Artie on edge on May 11, 2009, 04:13:00 PM
apart from you being a cranky arguementative................. ;D 8) ;D
I'm CRANKY ,you Ozzies are ARGUMENTATIVE!  bb: dd: :nw
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Jerry

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2009, 06:38:45 PM »
Post # 63 answered my question well ;D ;DSOO with all that has been said, If your using a maintence charger you would want the cutoff on the pos cable so that the charge is going into the battery and no the whole electrically system. The debate over where to put the neg cable coming from the charger would be the same debate as where to put the neg cable if you where jump starting the car?THe reason i was told to put the  neg on the frame (back in high school) on both cars was: you were less likely to connect the cables backwards. Hey it was highschool...
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artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2009, 08:20:03 PM »
But fabr we arent talking about a parrelel circuit. only a series circuit. In a series the single point of resistance controls the current flow through the entire circuit.

Meaning you can have the biggest cables in the world but if the switch can only flow 10amps, thats ALL that will flow... ever.

Changing to block ground wont INCREASE current flow UNLESS the ground clamp on teh battery is faulty, if its not then no gain can be experienced beacuse the other components wont allow EXTRA flow just because youve put the lead on the engine somewhere...

Your arguement would work if you were also putting the positive straight to the starter motor as well thereby taking the rest of teh circuit out of play.

BUT, im not arguing with you any longer on this, remember I said that before.... nope, dont try and get me to..Im not interested...


but your still wrong....
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Online fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2009, 08:34:34 PM »
Quote from: Artie on edge on May 11, 2009, 08:20:03 PM
But fabr we arent talking about a parrelel circuit. only a series circuit. In a series the single point of resistance controls the current flow through the entire circuit.

Meaning you can have the biggest cables in the world but if the switch can only flow 10amps, thats ALL that will flow... ever.

Changing to block ground wont INCREASE current flow UNLESS the ground clamp on teh battery is faulty, if its not then no gain can be experienced beacuse the other components wont allow EXTRA flow just because youve put the lead on the engine somewhere...

Your arguement would work if you were also putting the positive straight to the starter motor as well thereby taking the rest of teh circuit out of play.

BUT, im not arguing with you any longer on this, remember I said that before.... nope, dont try and get me to..Im not interested...


but your still wrong....
BINGO! That's my point.The positive DOES go directly to the starter just thru the solenoid.that's what I've been saying all along.And YES if you put BOTH the pos and neg jumper leads on the battery of the jumped vehicle you ARE in parallel. SEE? So the resistance IS the jumped battery. Best to avoid that if you want full current to the starter.By hooking the cables in series you avoid the amp dump into the dead battery.I think we've blurred the discussion between the best place for a cutoff switch(which you guys convinced me of) and the best practice for jump starting a vehicle.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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