DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: fabr on July 12, 2014, 09:46:02 AM
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OK,what is your opinion of the best choice manufacturer for a custom aluminum radiator? I have used SRS 3 times in the past and have been very happy with the quality and price. They are now called http://www.prchotrod.com/products/prc-custom-radiators.php . I am thinking of using them again but am looking for opinions on others also.
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CBR formerly PWR is pretty much the standard in off road racing. Everything I have built or worked on in the last 10 years has had one of there radiators in it. Zero failures from them so far. Minus the antenna that went through the core on the 8 truck............
http://cbr-performance.com/index.html (http://cbr-performance.com/index.html)
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http://bestradiator.net/ (http://bestradiator.net/) this is the company I had build my radiator for my current rail. no complaints about the radiator or sevice. the guy tried to talk me out of such a large radiator for my motor but I simply told him this is how large I want it for my app and he said ok and built it. I have had no cooling issues but I don't think he understood how large a load sand puts on the engines vs street and strip. i bet most places are like that but they are in hays kansas and real nice people to deal with. solid construction and i asked that they make the mounts out of thicker than normal aluminum for the extra strength too.
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http://bestradiator.net/ (http://bestradiator.net/)
Less than a mile from LB brewing. I would highly recommend stopping there if your ever in Hays..............
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So what's better for cooling? Two row, three row?
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That is a topic of much debate but I believe that the majority opinion is that 2 rows cool almost the same or better than 3 rows. Actually airflow is reduced too much with a 3 row. Massive airflow through the core is most important. Second is the water pump flow and pressure rating. There is a lot to be learned about cooling an engine . Most of us have no clue about all the dynamics involved . I know I didn't much at all till about 3 months ago . I started to do some research. WOW!!!!
3 questions to start with.
#1,What is the best engine coolant ?
#2 What is ideal engine temperature?
#3 What pressure rad cap should be used?
I'll admit these are sort of trick questions.
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So what's better for cooling? Two row, three row?
Going bigger on the core will do more than going thicker. As stated, unless you really reduce the fin count the airflow really drops off when you go thicker. Also, the last row is not nearly as efficient as the air it gets is all ready pre-warmed.
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As I learned the hard way (3 tries) getting tha radiator up into fresh air is priority!! I dont like its location as much but I sure do like holdng my foot to floor all day.
Location and size would be 1st priority, then ## rows. But really does all work together, upping size for less than optimal location is probably first thing us buggy builders do. I use mostly water, 1/2 bottle water wetter and about 1 cup antifreeze.
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Distilled water is the best coolant all by itself. Water wetters are pretty much just hype and do very little. Antifreeze is unnecessary (except in freezing temps)for cooling and actually inhibits waters heat absorbing ability. Corrosion inhibitors that are in antifreeze are beneficial but not mandatory to a healthy cooling system. Sooooo,save the money on water wetters and use straight distilled water . Don't buy the mineral water at Wally World. Make sure it is pure distilled water with no additives.
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Distilled water is the best coolant all by itself. Water wetters are pretty much just hype and do very little. Antifreeze is unnecessary (except in freezing temps)for cooling and actually inhibits waters heat absorbing ability. Corrosion inhibitors that are in antifreeze are beneficial but not mandatory to a healthy cooling system. Sooooo,save the money on water wetters and use straight distilled water . Don't buy the mineral water at Wally World. Make sure it is pure distilled water with no additives.
completely agree
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How about questions #2 and #3?
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i don't run mine in the winter but since it get pretty chilly up my way i run 50/50 anti freeze mix and have no issues with cooling thus far in the last 3 years. i have a two core and two pass radiator. now i understand that a person can go too big on a radiator and that many base the radiator size on hp, however i believe they should be based on load and app more so than on hp. i am sure some will disagree with that idea but it has always worked well for my builds so i will keep with it.
as far as q's 2 & 3 the majority of pass cars and trucks ( gasoline ) seem to run at 210* but a little hotter isn't a bad thing but i have always pre-ferred to keep the bike motors down around 195* not sure if every motor is going to be rated the same on * so what is the answer to that one that you have found?
#3.....well i have always gone with 24 ish lb caps and some go with 30 lbs caps. stock apps i believe are like 13 to 16 lb caps but street and hwy apps are way diff than strip and sand apps. is there a # somewhere for this question?
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There is no reason not to run antifreeze if the engine cools fine.Your answer begs to ask yet another question. Single pass or dual pass and why. I have to hit the road tonight but will address that and #2 and #3 later.
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Here's a link to an article,obviously slanted towards Griffin product but pretty well sums up everything I have read on the subject. Maybe 10 % of it can be argued but the core facts are pretty much indisputable. Kind of a long read but,IMO,worth it.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/ (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/)
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Ok,need another opinion. I wish to not have any cooling issues. If I position the rad like in red,I can only get 17x34 overall size including tanks-578 sq inches.
Would I be doing something stupid to run 2 rads in series as in the other color? I could gain another 161 sq inches or approx 25% more cooling area.
Any issues with running 2 rads in series?
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My personal experience is that if you are restrained in square inches and over heating is a problem you have to go to more cores. Had problems after my old jeep as in an accident and the repair shop put in a 2 core. I put a four core in and problem solved. I think its another one of those application specific thing that determine what you have to do.
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Don't know so I'm askin, does a custom radiator have to be a rectangle shape? Can it Not be built with the tanks at an angle to fit that space? Although 2 standard tanks I'm sure cheaper than some crazy Carl idea!!!
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Due to how the end plates are connected to the tubes in the core,it's not really practical to do an odd shaped core. The tanks can be but not the core.
Dunebound,the effeciency of more than 2 cores goes down,way down. Assume,for illustration only,100% effeciency of heat transfer with row 1,row 2 will be in thw range of 80% ,row 3 is around 30% with row 4 doing almost zero to cool.Most all rad mfgs say 3 is the limit . 2 is preferred .At speed,that 4th row can actually block all airflow thru the core. Square inches and airflow are the answer.
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Square inches and airflow are the answer.
Yes it is!
Also make sure your pump will push the coolant through 2 radiators. With all that extra tubing you need to really pay attention to joints and elbows. Stepping up a size or 2 on the tubing is never a bad idea.
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Totally agree,especially on the flow issue since turbulence is the 3rd most important aspect of cooling. Unfortunately,after looking and measuring what will actually fit I will not be gaining any sq inches of core after all and would only be adding ,as you said,extra flow resistance. If I do have any cooling issues though I can add a single row radiator in the drivers and/or passenger side scoop. I'm thinking that would require an aux cooling pump to keep system pressure and flow up as it needs to be.
Those BIG desert and dune cars have a LOT more room for crap than this small one does.