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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: Nutz4sand on January 20, 2013, 12:08:19 AM
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I used to know it but it has slipped away and I am just trying to refind the proper name for this kind of a suspension. I don't mean bolt on of course but the A-arms that connect at the very front in the middle and the other heims are clear back by the drivers and passengers legs/hips.
Some call them A-arms still and thats kinda true but I know this type of suspension has a name. WHAAZZZZZZZIIIIIT!?!?!?!
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Shit geometry? ;)
I don't know, we have discussed it before and I don't think there is a proper name.
At full droop this style generally has to move forward as it starts compressing. Yet they seem to work great! It has convinced me that geometry just isn't that critical in the sand.
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Shit geometry? ;)
I don't know, we have discussed it before and I don't think there is a proper name.
At full droop this style generally has to move forward as it starts compressing. Yet they seem to work great! It has convinced me that geometry just isn't that critical in the sand.
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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You laugh, but I tried to figure that geometry out once, if you have a shorter upper arm for camber change then you get caster change along with it... It gets very ugly, which is why most of them are almost parallel, and they work fine.
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lol shit geometry... I like that but its not quite what I was looking for. I have heard its proper name before.
I am no great fan of them. They are primarily used as they make a lot of room inside the chassis for the people up front vs an a-arm setup.
But as you said they have issues and one of them is on long travel the tires must go foward before going up and they do not ride near as good as a-arms (given proper shock settings). Hell I have seen some really long travel with these and its almost like the fronts solid when hitting big whoops but the owners think they got the shit! (and they do...literally... Engineer called it!!!)
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The other style is called a center piviot, so maybe this is a side piviot?
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first off the clamp on sides are dangerous imo but for those that can barely use a wrench and have no ability to weld love them! of course they don't know what real suspension is so........ ah huh. i believe I have always and always heard them called j arms, but now they have the front ends with the swoop back uppers and I have heard them called j arms to.
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A person would be wise to use DS's front end conversion. MUCH ,much better!
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first off the clamp on sides are dangerous imo but for those that can barely use a wrench and have no ability to weld love them! of course they don't know what real suspension is so........ ah huh. i believe I have always and always heard them called j arms, but now they have the front ends with the swoop back uppers and I have heard them called j arms to.
I always thought a J arm was one where the shock didn't go through the top A-arm but instead went around just the front then hooked back to the upright. That combined with the width of the frame mount made the Arm look like a J. Early Banshees had them.
I really didn't mean any disrespect to cars that use this suspension style. I have rode in some that worked well. :)
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Well damn, you guys are rough! Thats the arms I have on my car. Sure hope I have better results than what you describe. Either way I'll have a good time may just have to drink more beer.
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I cannot recall the proper name but I think it started with an H and was like five or six letters. But I cannot for the life of me recall it... ??? With what I been exposed to its surprising I can remember anything or even have an attention sp.... oh look a chicken! kick
I will find it.
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I dont know what the hell all of you are talking about. This style front end is harder to set up and takes a little more work to dial it all in but they work great. I get a clean 20" of travel in the front with a 10" shock. I can run through 3' tall whoops at 90+ mph and hang on to the wheel one handed without power steering. Just cause you dont understand something does not make it inferior. The key to these setups is keeping everything equal length and parallel. And its called an A arm front end, just a different style arm.
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I know Limos are set up that way. They seem to ride well. I think a lot of folks just assume a center piviot car is superious cause most big names excluding Funco use it now. S and S and a few others use this side arm mount. Seem to be just fine?
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The name I have heard it called which I thought was appropriate is semi leading.
You don't want to land nose down on one wheel with that setup. It will be explained that your arms were ripped off by the roll. It is actually that the arms ripped off from the poor geometry which in turn caused the roll.
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The name I have heard it called which I thought was appropriate is semi leading.
You don't want to land nose down on one wheel with that setup. It will be explained that your arms were ripped off by the roll. It is actually that the arms ripped off from the poor geometry which in turn caused the roll.
What poor geometry are you talking about that would cause this?
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While not perfect, what is, I'd say they may be some additional strength from the rear arm mounts being much further back than a traditional A arm. And a little rake would certainly help the forward swing from a nose front landing.
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What poor geometry are you talking about that would cause this?
At full droop, the tire is moved back from where it is at ride height. All long travel A-arm suspensions have the issue that the tire moves in while approaching full droop. So the tire has to move forward and out to move up. When you land nose down on one tire, forces are trying to move the tire up, in and back. 2 out of 3 win, the tire moves in, back and down ripping it off the shock.
Rake will reduce the amount the tire move forward. However, rake is a static amount and the leading arms cause the movement to be an arc. The rake will combine with the arc above ride height leading to increased brake dive. If anything, you want the effect of rake below ride height, but the opposite above ride height. You can attain this with a semi leading mounted upper A-arm and a parallel mounted lower.
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I dont know what the hell all of you are talking about. This style front end is harder to set up and takes a little more work to dial it all in but they work great. I get a clean 20" of travel in the front with a 10" shock. I can run through 3' tall whoops at 90+ mph and hang on to the wheel one handed without power steering. Just cause you dont understand something does not make it inferior. The key to these setups is keeping everything equal length and parallel. And its called an A arm front end, just a different style arm.
the front end pictured at the beginning of the thread. look at how it mounts to the side of the chassis and all points in single shear, is that how yours does? in that pic,( in that pic from what I can see) that front end, from a-arm.com has no cross tube supporting the bend in the rear tube of the bottom arm, is yours built like this as well? I'm betting yours is better built if your happy with it. where there are pro's and con's ( I lean to the side of con's like live wire ) to this front end design. in the pic at the start of the thread, I don't see any support where it should be plus the way the hang the pivot points below the chassis. that front end kit was made for the bolt on only folks that can't do anything else. it's dangerous imo but hey that's my opinion! i know several have built and used this style, better built, and i can see where it does offer more room for shocks and foot room. I just find it more limiting that beneficial. bottom line is if it meets your design needs and works well for you, then happy.
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The pic I posted was just convenient. It is not about how that one mounts so much as the layout of the arms in the wide spread "V" or "A". Its about the style of the arms I am seeking.
I to have heard them called A-arms but I do not think that is proper and that is not the name I have heard this kind of front end called.
For reasons only the universe knows I am thinking hodgkins front end but I am sure thats a delusion due to hunger at this moment. Maybe its hotchkiss?
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I'll chime in here and say that it doesn't have a proper name since it's just a variation of a arm to allow more foot room in a compact chassis. I'll also add it's not the best design but it works OK.
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The picture of the one in the first post is as a retrofit kit for a trailing arm chassis. It probably sucks less than the trailing arms suck. ;)
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Good point!!!! Still not my cup of tea as a bolt on.
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As it does not seem to have a proper name, lets call it "Bob." (Bend or Break) That way it finally has a name and we can let this topic go.
Bob it is.
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If we retire this thread, what will we do now. Its too cold here, no heat in shop, to work on buggy. ;D Fabr ;D
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Huh? Who........me?
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Sorry I was refering to the fact I may be cold! LMAO
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Welllllll, if you were just a tad closer you could bring it here to a nice warm shop.
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I still like semi leading A-arm.
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How about fractional A Arm? rofl rofl rofl
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Didn't someone call it a K arm ?
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this is a friend of a friend in glamis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcwus8Me20&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcwus8Me20&feature=youtu.be)
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OUch.
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Damn parachute threw him off.
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Damn parachute threw him off.
LOL
You know they say a butterflys wing flap HERE affects things in china. Guys lucky the paraglider did not send him to the middle of the ocean.
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LMAO LMAO I think it might have been more likely the panning of the car into the dune face after that wheelie and the hard nose landing next that did him in though. ;) Nuttin a strap and crazy glue can't fix .
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Crazy. Off camber, accross the face of the busiet hill at Glamis. What could go wrong?
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Posted the video on GD. Here is a response:
That type of suspension is described as "Leading Link", as the wheel is ahead of the arms.
The suspension is therefore under compression during travel. (Total weight of car pushes forward towards wheel when car lands)
Stuff will bend..
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Looks like that car broke the whole lower arm off. Prob either sheared the hiem mounting bolt or the hiem. Only front end damage I have done was when I hucked my car and bent the lower arm up about 1". I jumped down in a 8' deep wash doing 70+. I landed on the front end hard and the arms bent up between the coilover and the spindle. I bent them straight and threw a gusset on and haven't had an issue since. You can see the gussets below the lower arm in the pic above.
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Chromed arm probably without hydrogen post bake. It's a Glamis car, not a race car.
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Chromed arm probably without hydrogen post bake. It's a Glamis car, not a race car.
LOL When I tell people poorly done chrome weakens parts they tell me I am stupid. The word Chrome or Chromoly means tough son.....
EDIT: I know they are two different things its just that to many seem to think that one word is unrefuteable. Chrome.
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Chromed arm probably without hydrogen post bake. It's a Glamis car, not a race car.
LMAO LMAO LMAO no doubt. Shiny is all that matters there. ;D ;D
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LOL When I tell people poorly done chrome weakens parts they tell me I am stupid. The word Chrome or Chromoly means tough son.....
EDIT: I know they are two different things its just that to many seem to think that one word is unrefuteable. Chrome.
Those are a lot of uneducated experts in the US.
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Well many Harley riders deck there bikes out with chrome and you would not want to mess with most of those guys so therefore chrome must be tough via its connection to biker gangs. Yah thats it.
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DOH!!!!!!! I knew I was wrong. Thanks for pointing it out. ;D ;D