Hahn Port Fueler for Enemys new hotness!

[fabr]

I think that I am following this correctly, but please stomp the ignorance out.....  I have looked at the Hahn site some as well.

So this system is completely stand alone from all of the normal bike computer, wiring, etc.  Does the bikes injection just run a map based on RPM, Throttle position, etc?  No vacuum or oxygen sensor feedback?

I take it that you are not installing a complete turbo kit, but just the additional FI to add in for the turbo?  You have already been running a turbo before, but have been trying to make the stock computer/injectors compensate for it by changing the fuel map?  But now you will go back to the stock map to get good driveability, while only tuning the Hahn map for when boost starts to build?

If my assumptions are correct, then these questions should make sense.  How is this system picking up the information for it's fuel map?  The RPM, Throttle position etc?  Is it a harness that plugs into the busa harness?

I am curious because this system should be able to be easily adapted to any FI motor that someone wanted to turbo, except for the wiring and the throttle body adapters?

Thanks,
Carl

You would be right .All you need is the map/s for the needed fuel compensation derived from dyno logs of A/F for the engine you are tuning.I understrand that the fuel control box tho is a system that controls 2 injectors per"side " of the controler.My question is could it be adapted to a 2-6-8 cylinder engine? I'm thinking no.Anyone know?

[Engineer]

You would be right .All you need is the map/s for the needed fuel compensation derived from dyno logs of A/F for the engine you are tuning.I understrand that the fuel control box tho is a system that controls 2 injectors per"side " of the controler.My question is could it be adapted to a 2-6-8 cylinder engine? I'm thinking no.Anyone know?

I was thinking more along the lines of a solution for R-1, zx-12, all of the motors that no one makes a kit for, but that with a fairly inexpensive turbo, and this fuel setup could easily exceed the stock busa output.

[Enemy]

Thanks for asking those exact questions, Carl. Those are the ones I would want answered if I stumbled across this thread! Here it goes I hope..

So this system is completely stand alone from all of the normal bike computer, wiring, etc.  Does the bikes injection just run a map based on RPM, Throttle position, etc?  No vacuum or oxygen sensor feedback? If my assumptions are correct, then these questions should make sense.  How is this system picking up the information for it's fuel map?  The RPM, Throttle position etc?  Is it a harness that plugs into the busa harness?

This system is stand-alone from the normal bike computer. The bike based system is a speed density type system. It changes fuel/ignition maps from TPS, IAC, RPM and MAP (only vacuum). No O2 feedback. The Hahn system uses a injector driver box built by Split Second. Also Known as their R4 Box. This driver box uses a built in 3bar map sensor to to interpret needed milliseconds (user values) of injector fire time per RPM/PSI of boost. It only needs a three wire hookup to the factory system along with a Boost only reference point. (+, -, TACH, and any signal ABOVE the throttle plates) In a nutshell, let the complete factory system run the bike in all areas below boost, and let the Hahn FUEL the bike in all areas IN boost. According to all the turbo kit builders out there, you are now a Stage II system..

I take it that you are not installing a complete turbo kit, but just the additional FI to add in for the turbo?  You have already been running a turbo before, but have been trying to make the stock computer/injectors compensate for it by changing the fuel map?  But now you will go back to the stock map to get good driveability, while only tuning the Hahn map for when boost starts to build?

EXACTLY
My original setup is a Velocity Stage I @ 7psi system from my last bike with a modified plenum and up tube for a cleaner look on the rail. This is a system set for low boost (usually below 10psi)on an FMU type fueling system. The FMU helps control fueling by raising fuel pressure at a set ratio to referenced boost (mine was 4:1, 4psi increase FP per 1PSI of boost) Use this type system along with a piggy-back injector "fooler" and you can get an idea of how hard it can be to keep a consistent running set-up!

I am curious because this system should be able to be easily adapted to any FI motor that someone wanted to turbo, except for the wiring and the throttle body adapters?

Thanks,
Carl

All you would need is the Split Second box to adapt this type of system to ANY FI vehicle. Hahn has been building upgraded fuel systems for lots of cars before he ever caried it over to the mighty Busa!



I think thats right....

[Enemy]

A pic of the mapping program...pretty simple.

[Engineer]

In a nutshell, let the complete factory system run the bike in all areas below boost, and let the Hahn FUEL the bike in all areas IN boost.

The Hahn is actually adding more fuel on top of what the standard FI is putting in right?  Or does the regular FI drop out when the boost starts building?

A pic of the mapping program...pretty simple.

So will you eventually have a number in every RPM/Boost box above 0 PSI boost?

Does that number represent duty cycle % on the injector?




Thanks for all the info and answers for us NON-FI guys!    Might make it so I am not scared to take the plunge someday.   




And BTW nice desktop.      You could do a screenprint with no programs up as well.   

[70SSElky]

(+, -, TACH, and any signal ABOVE the throttle plates)

  Okay, question here.  Just to clairify when you say Above the throttle plates?   I put my boost reference line AFTER the throttle plates.   If you go before then you will get some big spikes of fuel when your throttle plates are shut.   

Per example,  You are running the hill and pulling 22 lbs of boost and you let off quickly.   Right when you let off your throttle plates slam shut.  Your plenum still has boost in it and the boost actually spikes during this time in the plenum untill the bov releases it.   (I have seen it climb as high as 5 additional lbs) If you are ABOVE the throttle bodies with your reference, the Split Second controller will still be feeding additional fuel to the motor while the throttle plates are shut because it is still seeing boost.  If you reference AFTER the throttle bodies then it only sees what the motor sees.    Does this make sense??

[Enemy]

The Hahn is actually adding more fuel on top of what the standard FI is putting in right?  Or does the regular FI drop out when the boost starts building?

Yup! And the factory system will continue to fuel just like it would if the turbo wasn't present. So those injectors will be firing along with the secondary's in boost.

So will you eventually have a number in every RPM/Boost box above 0 PSI boost?

Does that number represent duty cycle % on the injector?

I wish I could of took a screen shot of the ACTUAL map that Hahn has in the box, but my bare bones install of XP wont let me take one. All areas above 0 psi have numbers in them to reference milliseconds of injector fire time.
I will have to post that desktop in the VIP area!!...

[Enemy]

  Okay, question here.  Just to clairify when you say Above the throttle plates?   I put my boost reference line AFTER the throttle plates.   If you go before then you will get some big spikes of fuel when your throttle plates are shut.   

Per example,  You are running the hill and pulling 22 lbs of boost and you let off quickly.   Right when you let off your throttle plates slam shut.  Your plenum still has boost in it and the boost actually spikes during this time in the plenum untill the bov releases it.   (I have seen it climb as high as 5 additional lbs) If you are ABOVE the throttle bodies with your reference, the Split Second controller will still be feeding additional fuel to the motor while the throttle plates are shut because it is still seeing boost.  If you reference AFTER the throttle bodies then it only sees what the motor sees.    Does this make sense??

I posted that wrong...sorry
YOU are correct.. The SPlit Second box needs to be below the throttle plates...The  FUEL REGULATOR should only reference boost..My bad!!

[70SSElky]

No problem, just wanted to make sure you had it right so you didn't get any wierd problems

  .  Just curious, how much boost are you going to try and run.   Also are you pulling any timing and if so how.  Lastly what type of fuel do you plan on running.

   I was running Sunoco MAX NOS which is 118 octane and had problems tuning with it and it loaded up my plugs BAD! 

    I switched to VP C-16 which is 117 octane and what a difference.

 Much, much, better and the plugs look awesome.  I only mention this because I would never have thought that the top grades of fuel would make that much difference.   I can run a lot more timing with the VP fuel.  I think its just a better fuel. 

[70SSElky]

I also saw that you are looking for a Plenum Hold down.   I got mine and powerhousemc.com   It would be easy to make one but if you look at their's you would get a good idea.  They actually made that for the Hahn system originally. 

[Enemy]

For right now, I am going to run 8 psi on the gate and 12 psi on the second stage. I have all the goodies to hang on the crank for much more boost, but am running out of time to build it this winter, so this next season it will be pretty tame (if there is such a thing!) When I do crank the boost up, I will pull some timing out from within the stock ECU via a reflash tool from BoostBySmith. How are you pulling timing?

I have been running Phillips66 TT111 in all my toys with really good luck (106 Motor/114 Reaserch)

I also saw that you are looking for a Plenum Hold down.   I got mine and powerhousemc.com   It would be easy to make one but if you look at their's you would get a good idea.  They actually made that for the Hahn system originally. 

I think I am gunna build a turnbuckle style setup, ought to look and function pretty good!

[Enemy]

That setup is very similar to what I had in mind. I think I will save some cash building it myself though ..$120...

[70SSElky]

I am using a timing retard module from Shnitz, I activate it with a hobbs switch so that I only pull the timing out on higher boost numbers.   I don't have it pull any timing untill after 12lbs of boost.  That is also the same time start my water/methonal injection.   

   Yes, they are proud of those turnbuckles!! LOL     

    When you start going big boost I would up that octane.   For what your are doing now though that fuel should be great.  I can't wait to hear what you think when you get this thing going. 

[fabr]

Same here!

[Enemy]

Getting a bit closer guys!........ Have some progress happening with the new fuel system, and finishing up some frame mods, so about to golden in the near future I hope.
QUESTION>>>>>>>>>     70SSElky....What BOV are you running @ that boost level and Why?

I have just acquired a Greedy Blitz Super Sound BOV , NIB for $120 w/ filter and weld bung.... It is the only BOV I really like the sound of (from actual experience..)and was OK with user feedback as far as reliability and response is concerned..But these guys are only running up to 17 psi....so I felt I should ask your thoughts..   
What do ya think?