DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Member Project Logs => Topic started by: Enemy on January 08, 2009, 05:48:56 PM
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So when I got home tonight, I noticed that "Santa-in-a-brown-truck" stuffed a package in my secret stash box.....
[cue evil laugh..] >:D
This may help explain a bit what I'm doing to the car..http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=133953.0 (http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=133953.0)
The jury is still out on them, but I have a good feeling about it over plenum mounted secondaries
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu329%2Fbeerfarm1%2FP1010015.jpg&hash=6e853260cf200922b75e0ca1cb23d9aa167ec08f)
More to come....
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Wellllllllllll.I'm waiting!!!!!!!
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Linkey no workey
I'm ignorant here...
Please enlighten me ;)
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OK
I see a fuel pump,log and injectors...It's a direct port injector set up?
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OK
I see a fuel pump,log and injectors...It's a direct port injector set up?
Try this linky
http://www.turbosystem.com/cycle/index.htm (http://www.turbosystem.com/cycle/index.htm)
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Up stream fuel for when Youg got big boost going on...Makes sence, Kinda like the NOS shot with the extra fuel for the top end on the boost, Wow 450 horse between your thighs...Those fookers gotta have a screw loose
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Some of the busa drag guys make 800 HP
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Some of the busa drag guys make 800 HP
I believe the record HP on a Busa motor today is up to 900.. :o :o
It still amazes me how the little mill holds over 500 inside! Suzuki sure did hit a home run with this motor.
I like this alternative over plenum mounted secondaries. In my case this will allow for better placement of my intercooler, which will be directly above the plenum. There are some concerns about the controller (see link, which is working for me now ..) but guys that are using them report having seamless transitions from on and off boost.. we shall see!
By-by FMU :'(
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If it weren't for the pesky FMU life could be good.LOL!! Of all the things about a t'bo install the FMU is the PITA no doubt.
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If it weren't for the pesky FMU life could be good.LOL!! Of all the things about a t'bo install the FMU is the PITA no doubt.
Very much agreed.. Sometimes I think the little shit attributed to my liver damage and disappearing brain cells...
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Hey all, newbi here but been to all those other sites. Masterfabr hooked me up here so I wanted to come chat.
I have the Hahn system on my little busa car. I know there are skeptics out there.... and I am sure there are better systems out there. But for me, this system works great. Simple and effective.
I would tend to agree that the weakest link is the computer/programmer. But, as long as you adjust for the flaws it works out well. I spent quite a bit of time with mine on the dyno. The only thing that kinds of sucks is you can only adjust the fuel curve in 1000 rpm increments. Don't get me wrong though. You can still get a pretty flat A/F line on the chart.
I have mine set up and it stays between 11.4 and 11.8 A/f from low boost all the way to 26 #'s Might be able to get it tighter but why? It is safe, runs awesome, and I am not running a bracket drag car here so perfection is not really needed. But a little more time on the dyno and I am sure I could get it even tighter. Its just those 450 + HP pulls scare the crap out of me!!
My map I am sure is quite a bit different. I am not using and intercooler and above 12 lbs of boost I use water/methonal injection. Yes, I leaned the map for the methonal, risky if you run out... yes, more power... yes :) I'll take the risk.
I run a two stage boost controller so that when duning I keep it under 12 lbs. Flip the switch and I have 26 lbs of boost, timing retard and methonal injection both above 12 lbs.
I can also say the the boost transistion is awesome over a fmu. My car is so much smoother that it feels like it is making less power on low boost but in reality its about 60 hp more on low boost. Just so smooth it feels like less.
So Enemy, I think you will love it. Hit me up if you have any questions. Pretty simple install though.
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Hey all, newbi here but been to all those other sites. Masterfabr hooked me up here so I wanted to come chat.
I have the Hahn system on my little busa car. I know there are skeptics out there.... and I am sure there are better systems out there. But for me, this system works great. Simple and effective.
I would tend to agree that the weakest link is the computer/programmer. But, as long as you adjust for the flaws it works out well. I spent quite a bit of time with mine on the dyno. The only thing that kinds of sucks is you can only adjust the fuel curve in 1000 rpm increments. Don't get me wrong though. You can still get a pretty flat A/F line on the chart.
I have mine set up and it stays between 11.4 and 11.8 A/f from low boost all the way to 26 #'s Might be able to get it tighter but why? It is safe, runs awesome, and I am not running a bracket drag car here so perfection is not really needed. But a little more time on the dyno and I am sure I could get it even tighter. Its just those 450 + HP pulls scare the crap out of me!!
My map I am sure is quite a bit different. I am not using and intercooler and above 12 lbs of boost I use water/methonal injection. Yes, I leaned the map for the methonal, risky if you run out... yes, more power... yes :) I'll take the risk.
I run a two stage boost controller so that when duning I keep it under 12 lbs. Flip the switch and I have 26 lbs of boost, timing retard and methonal injection both above 12 lbs.
I can also say the the boost transistion is awesome over a fmu. My car is so much smoother that it feels like it is making less power on low boost but in reality its about 60 hp more on low boost. Just so smooth it feels like less.
So Enemy, I think you will love it. Hit me up if you have any questions. Pretty simple install though.
I REALLY appreciate the input bro!!! After Richards comment this morning on the Busa Board, I was starting to question my own judgment for a bit..(I really think someone shit in Richards Wheaties this morning..) I am hearing more good than bad about them so my good gut feeling is coming back! I am sure I will have some questions for you and I appreciate the offer for help..Sounds like you are at the level I am aiming for, so you will be hearing from me!
Thanks for bringing him aboard Master!! :)
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Very much agreed.. Sometimes I think the little shit attributed to my liver damage and disappearing brain cells...
THAT was the RMU(rum management unit)effing up!
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YES, 70SS we are VERY glad you stopped in.I'm ready to do another t'bo install and am/was dreading actually using an FMU yet again.THey're OK but leave some drivability to be desired.
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THAT was the RMU(rum management unit)effing up!
:m :m You funny guy!!
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Just an observation is all.Hehehe........................
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No Problem! Yea Richard doesn't like these at all! Also I have alot of respect for Richard. That man knows his stuff!! He puts out some awesome products and builds some wicked fast motors.
But... this fuel puddling crap???? I would like to see fuel puddle with the angle on the injectors and all of that boosted air going by and all that fuel pressure!! I think droplets would have a hard time forming. I am sure my 1350 dominator on my Elky puddles way more than this system.
Anyway, I had mine tuned in September, its still running, and yes it has be abused alot! I have been to the dunes about a dozen times already this year. Just make sure you set your fuel pressure to stock so that the stock injectors are properly mapped. Then adjust the secondarys to the boosted power. Don't take for granted that the boost numbers and the rpm numbers on the computer table are accurate. Mine were off and you just need to adjust your tables for that. No big deal really. Just need to figure out if they are off.
Let me know how the map works out that it comes with. I had to lean mine out. I think its a pretty safe/rich map.
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No Problem! Yea Richard doesn't like these at all! Also I have alot of respect for Richard. That man knows his stuff!! He puts out some awesome products and builds some wicked fast motors.
But... this fuel puddling crap???? I would like to see fuel puddle with the angle on the injectors and all of that boosted air going by and all that fuel pressure!! I think droplets would have a hard time forming. I am sure my 1350 dominator on my Elky puddles way more than this system.
Anyway, I had mine tuned in September, its still running, and yes it has be abused alot! I have been to the dunes about a dozen times already this year. Just make sure you set your fuel pressure to stock so that the stock injectors are properly mapped. Then adjust the secondarys to the boosted power. Don't take for granted that the boost numbers and the rpm numbers on the computer table are accurate. Mine were off and you just need to adjust your tables for that. No big deal really. Just need to figure out if they are off.
Let me know how the map works out that it comes with. I had to lean mine out. I think its a pretty safe/rich map.
I could not agree more!!
I'm thinking mine did not come with a map since I bought it from Orient Express on their 20% off coupon..(smokin' deal by the way..) I figured I could call Bill HAhn and get a start up map unless I could use yours? I am a ways off from that part of the build!
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How can a map come with it??????
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How can a map come with it??????
If you order straight from Bill, he will set you up a map that he has tested for your particular turbo for startup. (of course, like all the other kit manufacturers, they say it will be spot on.....B.S!!!!). This is what I understood from them anyway...I have not looked at the software yet, but I'm pretty positive it would be just a boost/comp style map.
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Not meaning to hijack and I'm not knocking your kit, but can someone knowledgeable tell me why dual injectors on a 1300 is desirable?
I would suggest (not having a turbo busa of my own.... yet...) keeping it simple: larger injectors and most importantly a good stand alone ECU and wideband?
Piggybacks are the devils work!
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I had this explained to me yesterday...
I'll let somebody in the know explain it better...
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Not meaning to hijack and I'm not knocking your kit, but can someone knowledgeable tell me why dual injectors on a 1300 is desirable?
I would suggest (not having a turbo busa of my own.... yet...) keeping it simple: larger injectors and most importantly a good stand alone ECU and wideband?
Piggybacks are the devils work!
No hijack! Thats a good question!
Stock injectors as you already know (or even a bit larger ones like the S2000's in their place) can only support so much boost. 10 psi is about the max you can take the stockers to before the dutycycle and needed pressures with an FMU become so high they start to sonic lock. A stand alone would be ideal like an AEM I run in my truck, but then price is starting to get out of hand for what can be accomplished with this. Standalones on the bike motors are not quite proven drivable yet, although some of the gurus on the Busa Board are making good progress.. The way this project is heading, I will let the stock ECU (somewhat modified, more on that at a later lime ;)) control all drive ability in the off boost areas and tune the Portfueler for all boost areas. Loose the FMU, Have the secondaries only referencing boosted areas, keep stock drivability. More than one way to skin a cat! ;D
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If you order straight from Bill, he will set you up a map that he has tested for your particular turbo for startup. (of course, like all the other kit manufacturers, they say it will be spot on.....B.S!!!!). This is what I understood from them anyway...I have not looked at the software yet, but I'm pretty positive it would be just a boost/comp style map.
UmmmmmmK ????
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No hijack! Thats a good question!
Stock injectors as you already know (or even a bit larger ones like the S2000's in their place) can only support so much boost. 10 psi is about the max you can take the stockers to before the dutycycle and needed pressures with an FMU become so high they start to sonic lock. A stand alone would be ideal like an AEM I run in my truck, but then price is starting to get out of hand for what can be accomplished with this. Standalones on the bike motors are not quite proven drivable yet, although some of the gurus on the Busa Board are making good progress.. The way this project is heading, I will let the stock ECU (somewhat modified, more on that at a later lime ;)) control all drive ability in the off boost areas and tune the Portfueler for all boost areas. Loose the FMU, Have the secondaries only referencing boosted areas, keep stock drivability. More than one way to skin a cat! ;D
Very good question really.The use of larger (s200) injectors works well but are a bitch to tune at the lower rpms with a PC and stock ECU. Drivability usually suffers greatly.Piggies ,plenum or porters, are a better way to go unless as suggested a pricier standalone is used.
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Can I think of these as secondaries only coming on when there is demand? (Pea brain)
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Can I think of these as secondaries only coming on when there is demand? (Pea brain)
Yep. AS boost raises the secondary controller adds extra fuel on demand according to it's map.It only operates on boost.
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UmmmmmmK ????
Boost compensation map....
Copied from AEM forum.. Very popular way to very quickly get a car on the road and log with the AEM.. Alot more to it in the software of course , but would work for a start up map in boost...
"If at say 4K RPM and 100KPA you need X amount of fuel to get Y A/F then at 4K RPM and 200KPA you will need 2X fuel to get the same Y A/F. Make sense? Yes, in extreme cases the VE of the motor will change at some point due to restrictions somewhere but for the most part this concept holds true."
Really good reading on the AEM forum actually, and has worked very well in my truck. (I can post up the link if interested) I'm just guessing, but I bet that's how Bill Hahn can hand out a map he says is good to 500 hp with this setup...Wont be perfect, but it will get me logging in the shortest amount of time I bet.
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Made a little bit of progress today. I can see why Richard (RCC Turbos on the BUsa Board..) would complain about how it is a pain in the ass to fit these on. Per Hahn's instructions, he wants you to clean up the flashing on the throttle bodies to aid in the O-ring sealing. I took it a step further and radius the sharp edge on the edge of the TB's as well. This helped the injector plates slide on quite easily actually.. These plates are a VERY precise fit...(disregard the engineering fluid in the background..)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu329%2Fbeerfarm1%2FP1010025.jpg&hash=2ce2b79f7a68578aadf34cc2b7a7de0b32eeeebf)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu329%2Fbeerfarm1%2FP1010023.jpg&hash=f070f7a7cf2f62486a44e5046d7cfa9a0f831966)
I also took it a step further and did the same to the spigots on the motor. At first I could not get the TB's to set all the way down on the ports. After some clean-up off the casting flaws, they dropped right on with some finesse..
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu329%2Fbeerfarm1%2FP1010027.jpg&hash=ab9d110c31410eee74474975d56a5f82e5554db3)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu329%2Fbeerfarm1%2FP1010028.jpg&hash=a1bd70fdf16b4a9b3c58b30f4ddee4c82715655c)
Thats todays accomplishments.. Very nice fit with not alot of effort..So far so good. More to come!
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Cool! Step by step! Very cool log for us!
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Very nice, i was assuming from the original post they sat on top of the t bodies, "why i have no idea" but makes perfect sense now....
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Thanks Enemy. I meant using bigger better injectors, not the stock ones or ones that are slightly better than stock - ones actually rated at the duty/flow you need. Using a piggy back to me is like using a screwdriver when you really wanted a wood chisel. It will do the job but there's no finesse involved ;)
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Boost compensation map....
Copied from AEM forum.. Very popular way to very quickly get a car on the road and log with the AEM.. Alot more to it in the software of course , but would work for a start up map in boost...
"If at say 4K RPM and 100KPA you need X amount of fuel to get Y A/F then at 4K RPM and 200KPA you will need 2X fuel to get the same Y A/F. Make sense? Yes, in extreme cases the VE of the motor will change at some point due to restrictions somewhere but for the most part this concept holds true."
Really good reading on the AEM forum actually, and has worked very well in my truck. (I can post up the link if interested) I'm just guessing, but I bet that's how Bill Hahn can hand out a map he says is good to 500 hp with this setup...Wont be perfect, but it will get me logging in the shortest amount of time I bet.
Hmmm,hadn't thought about it that way since I've only done FMU shi-uh-stuff..I see the light.
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this guy is running the hahn port fueler on this turbo busa tompro at silver lake, it is the smoothest power curve you've ever seen on a turbo car !!!! worth every penny, he said he removed the old step up fuel diaphragm that tompro put on it and what a difference !!!
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That's really good to hear.Could you ask him to post up some info about his experience and any issues or tips he may have ?
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YES! Another positive experience!
I would love to hear what he has to say as well..
Oh and we figured out why Richard @ RCC does not have much good to say about the Hahn.. He is designing a similar setup!...HHmmmm. I know it will be an incredible piece of hardware coming from Richard, and we the consumers will benefit the most with the competition. Cant wait to see what he comes up with! But it is great to hear all the positives regardless..
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Question:if the portfuelers were not solidly connected to the fuel rail would it make for an easier install ?
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I think they have to be solidly connected. Other wise you would blow the injector out with pressure. Really they are not that hard to install, infact you leave the screws on the fuel rail loose untill you have the bodies set and then line every thing up and tighten the last two screws. Now, taking them back off does suck, they get ahold of those intake necks and do not want to come off!!
Hey Enemy, I bet you still have a base map in there, if not just hit me up and I will give you a copy. I copied all my maps just for insurance and kept the base map just incase I needed to start over. Just make sure you tune both the A map and the B map when your tuning. Each map runs two injectors so you need to make sure both match.
I am going to try adding a vid of my car. Its the orange mini.
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That is sweet Elky... Looks like your putting the hurt on a V-8. ;D ;D ;D That was Glamis drags? When?
Feel free to post up some pics and info on your car. ;D
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Hey Enemy, I bet you still have a base map in there, if not just hit me up and I will give you a copy. I copied all my maps just for insurance and kept the base map just incase I needed to start over. Just make sure you tune both the A map and the B map when your tuning. Each map runs two injectors so you need to make sure both match.
I talked to Hahn yesterday, and he said the Split Second box has the base map he designed loaded in it, so I should be good to go. Thanks for the offer and the heads up on the A/B maps! :D
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Question:if the portfuelers were not solidly connected to the fuel rail would it make for an easier install ?
What (I think) would make for a bit better setup is if the Fuelers were a one piece design. On and off assembling would improve instead of working with individual manifolds. Then install the fuel rail retaining brackets on the sides of the manifold, instead of underneath..Mr-Turbo has used a one piece manifold in the past for the Busa. Pricey, but so is just the manifolds from Hahn..
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There ya go!
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I think they have to be solidly connected. Other wise you would blow the injector out with pressure. Really they are not that hard to install, infact you leave the screws on the fuel rail loose untill you have the bodies set and then line every thing up and tighten the last two screws. Now, taking them back off does suck, they get ahold of those intake necks and do not want to come off!!
Hey Enemy, I bet you still have a base map in there, if not just hit me up and I will give you a copy. I copied all my maps just for insurance and kept the base map just incase I needed to start over. Just make sure you tune both the A map and the B map when your tuning. Each map runs two injectors so you need to make sure both match.
I am going to try adding a vid of my car. Its the orange mini.
cool vid, i have seen that on you tube before, If you have youtube or photobucket just paste the link, it will pop right up...
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I think that I am following this correctly, but please stomp the ignorance out..... I have looked at the Hahn site some as well.
So this system is completely stand alone from all of the normal bike computer, wiring, etc. Does the bikes injection just run a map based on RPM, Throttle position, etc? No vacuum or oxygen sensor feedback?
I take it that you are not installing a complete turbo kit, but just the additional FI to add in for the turbo? You have already been running a turbo before, but have been trying to make the stock computer/injectors compensate for it by changing the fuel map? But now you will go back to the stock map to get good driveability, while only tuning the Hahn map for when boost starts to build?
If my assumptions are correct, then these questions should make sense. How is this system picking up the information for it's fuel map? The RPM, Throttle position etc? Is it a harness that plugs into the busa harness?
I am curious because this system should be able to be easily adapted to any FI motor that someone wanted to turbo, except for the wiring and the throttle body adapters?
Thanks,
Carl
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Cool AVATAR!!! BUGS DA MAN!!!!!!!!
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I think that I am following this correctly, but please stomp the ignorance out..... I have looked at the Hahn site some as well.
So this system is completely stand alone from all of the normal bike computer, wiring, etc. Does the bikes injection just run a map based on RPM, Throttle position, etc? No vacuum or oxygen sensor feedback?
I take it that you are not installing a complete turbo kit, but just the additional FI to add in for the turbo? You have already been running a turbo before, but have been trying to make the stock computer/injectors compensate for it by changing the fuel map? But now you will go back to the stock map to get good driveability, while only tuning the Hahn map for when boost starts to build?
If my assumptions are correct, then these questions should make sense. How is this system picking up the information for it's fuel map? The RPM, Throttle position etc? Is it a harness that plugs into the busa harness?
I am curious because this system should be able to be easily adapted to any FI motor that someone wanted to turbo, except for the wiring and the throttle body adapters?
Thanks,
Carl
You would be right .All you need is the map/s for the needed fuel compensation derived from dyno logs of A/F for the engine you are tuning.I understrand that the fuel control box tho is a system that controls 2 injectors per"side " of the controler.My question is could it be adapted to a 2-6-8 cylinder engine? I'm thinking no.Anyone know?
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You would be right .All you need is the map/s for the needed fuel compensation derived from dyno logs of A/F for the engine you are tuning.I understrand that the fuel control box tho is a system that controls 2 injectors per"side " of the controler.My question is could it be adapted to a 2-6-8 cylinder engine? I'm thinking no.Anyone know?
I was thinking more along the lines of a solution for R-1, zx-12, all of the motors that no one makes a kit for, but that with a fairly inexpensive turbo, and this fuel setup could easily exceed the stock busa output.
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Thanks for asking those exact questions, Carl. Those are the ones I would want answered if I stumbled across this thread! Here it goes I hope.. :)
So this system is completely stand alone from all of the normal bike computer, wiring, etc. Does the bikes injection just run a map based on RPM, Throttle position, etc? No vacuum or oxygen sensor feedback? If my assumptions are correct, then these questions should make sense. How is this system picking up the information for it's fuel map? The RPM, Throttle position etc? Is it a harness that plugs into the busa harness?
This system is stand-alone from the normal bike computer. The bike based system is a speed density type system. It changes fuel/ignition maps from TPS, IAC, RPM and MAP (only vacuum). No O2 feedback. The Hahn system uses a injector driver box built by Split Second. Also Known as their R4 Box. This driver box uses a built in 3bar map sensor to to interpret needed milliseconds (user values) of injector fire time per RPM/PSI of boost. It only needs a three wire hookup to the factory system along with a Boost only reference point. (+, -, TACH, and any signal ABOVE the throttle plates) In a nutshell, let the complete factory system run the bike in all areas below boost, and let the Hahn FUEL the bike in all areas IN boost. According to all the turbo kit builders out there, you are now a Stage II system..
I take it that you are not installing a complete turbo kit, but just the additional FI to add in for the turbo? You have already been running a turbo before, but have been trying to make the stock computer/injectors compensate for it by changing the fuel map? But now you will go back to the stock map to get good driveability, while only tuning the Hahn map for when boost starts to build?
EXACTLY
My original setup is a Velocity Stage I @ 7psi system from my last bike with a modified plenum and up tube for a cleaner look on the rail. This is a system set for low boost (usually below 10psi)on an FMU type fueling system. The FMU helps control fueling by raising fuel pressure at a set ratio to referenced boost (mine was 4:1, 4psi increase FP per 1PSI of boost) Use this type system along with a piggy-back injector "fooler" and you can get an idea of how hard it can be to keep a consistent running set-up!
I am curious because this system should be able to be easily adapted to any FI motor that someone wanted to turbo, except for the wiring and the throttle body adapters?
Thanks,
Carl
All you would need is the Split Second box to adapt this type of system to ANY FI vehicle. Hahn has been building upgraded fuel systems for lots of cars before he ever caried it over to the mighty Busa!
I think thats right.... :-X
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A pic of the mapping program...pretty simple.
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In a nutshell, let the complete factory system run the bike in all areas below boost, and let the Hahn FUEL the bike in all areas IN boost.
The Hahn is actually adding more fuel on top of what the standard FI is putting in right? Or does the regular FI drop out when the boost starts building?
A pic of the mapping program...pretty simple.
So will you eventually have a number in every RPM/Boost box above 0 PSI boost?
Does that number represent duty cycle % on the injector?
Thanks for all the info and answers for us NON-FI guys! mm: Might make it so I am not scared to take the plunge someday. ;D
And BTW nice desktop. ;D ;D ;D You could do a screenprint with no programs up as well. :k (ks)
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(+, -, TACH, and any signal ABOVE the throttle plates)
Okay, question here. Just to clairify when you say Above the throttle plates? I put my boost reference line AFTER the throttle plates. If you go before then you will get some big spikes of fuel when your throttle plates are shut.
Per example, You are running the hill and pulling 22 lbs of boost and you let off quickly. Right when you let off your throttle plates slam shut. Your plenum still has boost in it and the boost actually spikes during this time in the plenum untill the bov releases it. (I have seen it climb as high as 5 additional lbs) If you are ABOVE the throttle bodies with your reference, the Split Second controller will still be feeding additional fuel to the motor while the throttle plates are shut because it is still seeing boost. If you reference AFTER the throttle bodies then it only sees what the motor sees. Does this make sense??
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The Hahn is actually adding more fuel on top of what the standard FI is putting in right? Or does the regular FI drop out when the boost starts building?
Yup! And the factory system will continue to fuel just like it would if the turbo wasn't present. So those injectors will be firing along with the secondary's in boost.
So will you eventually have a number in every RPM/Boost box above 0 PSI boost?
Does that number represent duty cycle % on the injector?
I wish I could of took a screen shot of the ACTUAL map that Hahn has in the box, but my bare bones install of XP wont let me take one. All areas above 0 psi have numbers in them to reference milliseconds of injector fire time.
I will have to post that desktop in the VIP area!!... ;) :'(
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Okay, question here. Just to clairify when you say Above the throttle plates? I put my boost reference line AFTER the throttle plates. If you go before then you will get some big spikes of fuel when your throttle plates are shut.
Per example, You are running the hill and pulling 22 lbs of boost and you let off quickly. Right when you let off your throttle plates slam shut. Your plenum still has boost in it and the boost actually spikes during this time in the plenum untill the bov releases it. (I have seen it climb as high as 5 additional lbs) If you are ABOVE the throttle bodies with your reference, the Split Second controller will still be feeding additional fuel to the motor while the throttle plates are shut because it is still seeing boost. If you reference AFTER the throttle bodies then it only sees what the motor sees. Does this make sense??
I posted that wrong...sorry
YOU are correct.. The SPlit Second box needs to be below the throttle plates...The FUEL REGULATOR should only reference boost..My bad!!
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No problem, just wanted to make sure you had it right so you didn't get any wierd problems
. Just curious, how much boost are you going to try and run. Also are you pulling any timing and if so how. Lastly what type of fuel do you plan on running.
I was running Sunoco MAX NOS which is 118 octane and had problems tuning with it and it loaded up my plugs BAD!
I switched to VP C-16 which is 117 octane and what a difference.
Much, much, better and the plugs look awesome. I only mention this because I would never have thought that the top grades of fuel would make that much difference. I can run a lot more timing with the VP fuel. I think its just a better fuel.
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I also saw that you are looking for a Plenum Hold down. I got mine and powerhousemc.com It would be easy to make one but if you look at their's you would get a good idea. They actually made that for the Hahn system originally.
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For right now, I am going to run 8 psi on the gate and 12 psi on the second stage. I have all the goodies to hang on the crank for much more boost, but am running out of time to build it this winter, so this next season it will be pretty tame (if there is such a thing!) When I do crank the boost up, I will pull some timing out from within the stock ECU via a reflash tool from BoostBySmith. How are you pulling timing?
I have been running Phillips66 TT111 in all my toys with really good luck (106 Motor/114 Reaserch)
I also saw that you are looking for a Plenum Hold down. I got mine and powerhousemc.com It would be easy to make one but if you look at their's you would get a good idea. They actually made that for the Hahn system originally.
I think I am gunna build a turnbuckle style setup, ought to look and function pretty good!
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That setup is very similar to what I had in mind. I think I will save some cash building it myself though ..$120... :o
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I am using a timing retard module from Shnitz, I activate it with a hobbs switch so that I only pull the timing out on higher boost numbers. I don't have it pull any timing untill after 12lbs of boost. That is also the same time start my water/methonal injection.
Yes, they are proud of those turnbuckles!! LOL
When you start going big boost I would up that octane. For what your are doing now though that fuel should be great. I can't wait to hear what you think when you get this thing going.
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Same here!
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Getting a bit closer guys!........ Have some progress happening with the new fuel system, and finishing up some frame mods, so about to golden in the near future I hope.
QUESTION>>>>>>>>> 70SSElky....What BOV are you running @ that boost level and Why?
I have just acquired a Greedy Blitz Super Sound BOV , NIB for $120 w/ filter and weld bung.... It is the only BOV I really like the sound of (from actual experience..)and was OK with user feedback as far as reliability and response is concerned..But these guys are only running up to 17 psi....so I felt I should ask your thoughts.. ;) :)
What do ya think?
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Did you get thatlink I sent you?
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Did you get thatlink I sent you?
No!
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It is the only BOV I really like the sound of (from actual experience..)
Whats it sound like? Mine reminds me of the pneumatic sounds that a roller coaster makes.
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Get your bloodshot eyes open! I'll resend it to you.Standalone on the fly AFR stuff.I think you'll love what you see!
http://turbobikes.org/forum/index.php/topic,175.msg3156/boardseen.html#new (http://turbobikes.org/forum/index.php/topic,175.msg3156/boardseen.html#new)
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That one looks better than the one I am running. I am not even sure who makes mine but it is a weld on. With the boost reference to the valve it should have no problem staying closed. Then when you let off it will make that cool sound!!! Love that sound :)
I have a pretty basic one and I am still running the stock butterflies, not the Stainless Steel upgraded ones. I have not bent a stock butterfly yet and am pushing up to 28#s of boost once and awhile. So that valve must be popping open pretty well to release the boost.
The filter would be nice, with my methonal injection it blows the water/methonal out when it pops off. Gets a fine mist on top of my motor and then dust collects. But I don't know if that might cause the filter to plug and then cause a problem with releasing the air..... just thinking outloud here...
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The filter for this BOV was an extra selling point for me, it can be run with or without it..I plan to wrap a baby Outerwears on it. Interesting point on the Water/meth plugging it up...Hmmm.
Yummi, You can "get an idea" of what it sounds like on youtube (somewhat :-\ ) Just do a search for Blitz BOV...Tuner boys love to post them up! Really does it no justice though, Hard to describe the sound. It has a unique tone when it opens..not just air sound...
I'll shut up now.. ;D
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Did you know that an Innovate XD-16 will fit in the same hole a Grant horn button will??
Now to get rid of Innovates SHIT connectors in favor of some real ones...
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Drivers view....sweeeeeet.
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I think I'm gunna put the button for the second stage in reach of the left thumb... ;D
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What boost controller setup you using?
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The Innovate stuffs pretty good overall but it does leave one wanting a bit better. I absolutely hated the xd-16(may have been my fault tho). BUT I'll likely use the stuff again since I already have most of it. For the price tho it is a good value and very compact.
Did you get a chance to check out the link?
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Enemy check this out.
http://turbobikes.org/forum/index.php/topic,175.0.html (http://turbobikes.org/forum/index.php/topic,175.0.html)
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What boost controller setup you using?
I was going to use a bleeder style from Greg (boostbysmith) but am leaning towards the AEM Tru-Boost http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=68 (http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=68)
Can be a pain to get set-up, but works very well..Lots of help on the forums for setting it up, so should be good.
I haven't got a chance to read through the whole thread yet, but it looks like really good stuff!! Thanks for the link :) Me like!
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Me gonna matbe like a lot more.I have all the info you need as far as contact info for the guys building this stuff if you get time/want to pick their brains.
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I like what you did with the steering wheel!!! I think you still need a horn.
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Well with a foot of fresh powder on the ground, and a day off of work I got the fuel system plumbed today. Came out pretty good!
STILL amazes me that guys can stuff all that stuff under the tank of the Busa! mm:
;D
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Time for a test run or what?
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LM1 and the Aux Box all snug and cozy in their new coffin! I have the XD16 record button set up and activating the LM1 to record from the steering wheel. That will be handy instead of having DS in the passenger seat with me yelling at him "RECORD DAMMIT!! RECORD!!!"
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Looking GOOD!
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Looking GOOD!
Thank You!
Spent my Saturday doing the final (for the second time ::)) wiring :D
One more rat's nest behind the gauges isn't gunna matter anymore is it?? LOL
Here's a drivers view for ya! I messed around with *ECU Editor Install today as well and got a nice solid 13.1 mix at idle. Hell yea! ;D Gunna start smoothing out a no load rich spot around 4000 and 5% throttle tomorrow to get some more experience on this wonderful flashing stuff! Then I will be all ready to start logging some pulls jj:
I also raised my rev limiter to 11500
Switched to hard-cut only rev limiter
Added 10% more dwell to the coils ( I can open my plugs back up some!!!)
Still have some playing to do with the program but so far I'm loving it!
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*I have a feeling I should probably start a new thread for this!
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Please start a thread on using the ECU editor.It deserves it's own place. Very cool stuff. Besides I' need to know what you FU while learning so I don't make the same FU's. Hehehe
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Please start a thread on using the ECU editor.It deserves it's own place. Very cool stuff. Besides I' need to know what you FU while learning so I don't make the same FU's. Hehehe
[in a Yoda voice lol]
Guinea Pig I shall be young Jedi. ;D ;D ;D
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hehehe
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Thank You!
I also raised my rev limiter to 11500
Switched to hard-cut only rev limiter
Added 10% more dwell to the coils ( I can open my plugs back up some!!!)
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the last time you jumped 500 rpm you went from 97.7 on gps to 111mph pinned in 6th gear! what do you think now? I'm guessing 134-140mph!
I CALL SHOT GUN!!!!!!!!!!!! :u
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Cool shit man :o
I think your starting to fall into that catagory I like to call STOOPID FAST
I like it mm: jj: mm:
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Cool shit man :o
I think your starting to fall into that catagory I like to call STOOPID FAST
I like it
Thanks Spec!
Hopefully stoopid fast, and a place to really find out without pissin' the local county mountys off..
Ehhhhh..they'll get over it...again.... ;D ;D
Update!
Received my modified plenum today. and have it snugly hugging the motor with my tie-down idea. A bit over kill but it worked out great, is stainless, and a very simple design without dumping a hundred bucks on others out there..
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nice.got it tuned yet? bet that happens tomorrow huh? hehe
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No intercooler yet, :'( :-\ :'(.....dammit
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get the video camera out, so we can hear it run... ;D
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What snow, that shif is all gone. Just wet as hell. :) He passed stupid fast long ago. ;D ;D
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I believe there is a chance of 2 - 4" of snow tomorrow on into this weekend. I like the cold and snow but I am ready for some warmer weather now if it would just stay 70 through the summer!
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Woke up to close to an inch in seattle. Luckily it all melted before noon.
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I'll trade ya, We got 8'' of snow yesterday and its fooken 9 below zero now :(
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Ya gotta love the Nebraska weather. Tues thru Thurs was 50 and 60's. Friday I wake up to 7...7!!!!!! Talk about a system shock! That mother nature bitch is a serious friggin' TEASE! :D
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Well it was 80 here yesterday and 22 this morning.THe BITCH!LOL!!!!!
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Talk about a bracket MIND-FU*K!! :P
*sigh*
Intercooler is mounted. Vibration mounted. My head hurts. Critique away please This is all my brain could come up with.
Need to get two more tube brackets for the bottom mounts and get some plumbing done bla bla bla THEN I'M GUNNA DRIVE THE DAMN THING. *#$#(*## ## (*^&%
budweiser is calling today!
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Couple close-ups
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Hiya enemy, mate the only thing I can see is I would prefer to see a solid or billet aluminium block around the tubing of the frame to mount the unit rather than the flat strap. Something like Rick has for sale for rad mounts.
Otherwise, sweet!
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Hiya enemy, mate the only thing I can see is I would prefer to see a solid or billet aluminium block around the tubing of the frame to mount the unit rather than the flat strap. Something like Rick has for sale for rad mounts.
Otherwise, sweet!
THANK YOU for the input..Those bottom mount are the ones I question
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Ok just had another look at that. Its hard to tell from pics but can you run the tab on the bottom mount from the i/cooler straight rather than the big dog leg to get to the top of the tubing? Attach it to the bracket on the other side of the tubing. As I said before some blocks made to clamp to the tubing and a way of attaching the mounting plates to the blocks.
Bling AND functionality (rare mix!)
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and one more thing. I went rtight through the pics you posted and couldnt find this essential piece of equipment anywhere in sight.
Mate! Where is the beer fridge?????
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I would suggest connecting the two supports together - like the top set - would seem that doing so might save the rad from flex on the supports? Like arties ieda of flipping the billiet and removing the dog leg.
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Billet tube clamp with a heim to allow bolt to line up.The tube and IC are in different planes.
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The main thing I like in the design is the removability. I think ypu guys have it already improved to make it hold up and keep the removability/upgradability (yea I know. I cant spell and I make up words sometimes)
Ok, Im gunna go off the ideas posted so far and interpret em' with my brain! LOL
Ok just had another look at that. Its hard to tell from pics but can you run the tab on the bottom mount from the i/cooler straight rather than the big dog leg to get to the top of the tubing? Attach it to the bracket on the other side of the tubing. As I said before some blocks made to clamp to the tubing and a way of attaching the mounting plates to the blocks.
Bling AND functionality (rare mix!)
I love bling! And Yummi 's got it as well I think, Tie the bottom mounts together like you say. I didn't picture that at first cause I wanted to place the cooler in a position that grabbed more air v.s. flowed with the shock tubes. I couldn't picture that lower mount! I think I could lower the tube mounting position and make that work. The tab would have to bend a 45 or so somewhere in the mix to keep the cooler angle I'm guessing.
Billet tube clamp with a heim to allow bolt to line up.The tube and IC are in different planes.
I like this idea but will this keep vibration in check? Talk about bling.....that would match the plenum......................... That would be bitchin'!! ;D
and one more thing. I went rtight through the pics you posted and couldnt find this essential piece of equipment anywhere in sight.
Mate! Where is the beer fridge?????
I'll tell ya.... When I purchased this "Garage", it just so happened to come with an attached "House". I keep my Rum and Budweiser in a very special location about 15 paces in slippers to the garage kitchen's beer fridge... Slippers are mandatory. It's kinda cold in that house!!
;D ;D
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Guys, can you give me a link so I can visualize this billet tube clamp? I need a better understanding of what you mean. :-\
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Guys, can you give me a link so I can visualize this billet tube clamp? I need a better understanding of what you mean. :-\
This style of thing but split so it can clamp around the tubing. This is Ricks radiator mount but its sort of what comes to my mind when I think removable bracket or adding to already finished frames (ideally you would weld a tab off the frame).
http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=1132.0 (http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=1132.0) Im talking about the ali biut here not the steel brackets... Or talk to Rick.... he does som enice stuff.... ;D
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MAN...
You guys are good
;D
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yes, yes we are... but we dont do pickles. when you gona have some stuff to send to aus?
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Buy the vibration mounts like SRS has available for their radiators.You DID buy those didn't you? ;D ;D Then use the tube clamps with a heim in place of one of the tube clamp bolts. I'm probably not making any sense to you and I don't have what I need here to post up a pic. :-[ :-[
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Oops!,I guess I should look closer at the pics.You do have the grommets.
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yes, yes we are... but we dont do pickles. when you gona have some stuff to send to aus?
Couple of months or so....well at least 4 months still under some snow here
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Buy the vibration mounts like SRS has available for their radiators.You DID buy those didn't you? ;D ;D Then use the tube clamps with a heim in place of one of the tube clamp bolts. I'm probably not making any sense to you and I don't have what I need here to post up a pic. :-[ :-[
OK! NOW I'm picking up on what you are saying. That would be a helluva lot stronger, and I could easily maintain the angle of the I.C. I'm gunna look into this idea some more. :)
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By George ,I think he's got it. Amazing ,considering the crappy way I described it. LOL!!!
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Enemy, just wanted to share with you a problem I just had. If you haven't done it already, it might be a good idea to go with stainless steel throttle plates.
I know I told you that I didn't have a problem with my blow off valve.... Well I just bent my throttle plates last outing, man that was hard to figure out! I am
Pushing alot more boost than your are initially planning but... it never seems to be enough. So I am changing to Stainless Steel and putting on a bigger blow
off valve.
Hows that thing coming anyway??
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Its just about there! I have some plumbing parts showing up today to finish up the IC, and a couple flashing issues to work out with BoostBySmith (more on that later.. ???) And hopefully some tuning BEFORE I head to the dunes ::)
Thanks for the heads up on the plates! :) :)
....more to come
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There's just something about all the plumbing associated with a turbo that makes the whole package scream "HELL YEA!!"
"DAMMIT! I LOVE THIS STUFF!!"
".....please don't leak"
"shit I'm broke"
;D
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Looks Great...
When's the video......
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SWEEEEEEET...........
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Looks Great...
When's the video......
I need to hold some J. Daniels ransom from DS.............
UNTIL HE WILL DELIVER ME SOME FUGGIN' AXLES!!!!!!!
:'(
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I need to hold some J. Daniels ransom from DS.............
UNTIL HE WILL DELIVER ME SOME FUGGIN' AXLES!!!!!!!
:'(
hey if that was a live rear end the one axle he has done would work for now lol. I wound up in the wild wild town of wiiiiiiiiiiiiiilber friday and didn't make it back to the shop until 520 so I didn't get him called but I will mon for sure and then if the weather holds bring the rail over next weekend and lets see how it runs. I'll supply the JD and ice!
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There's just something about all the plumbing associated with a turbo that makes the whole package scream "HELL YEA!!"
"DAMMIT! I LOVE THIS STUFF!!"
".....please don't leak"
"shit I'm broke"
;D
I like it I like it!! ;D damn those are some beefy shocks! :o
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Is that 2" IC tubing? IC has 2.5 IN/OUT?
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BTW the install it looks GREAT!!!
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Are we all riding the credit card to LS? Looking good emeny. Can we all say ludicrous speed captin :) :) 3: 3: b:1.
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Is that 2" IC tubing? IC has 2.5 IN/OUT?
Thanks Fabr!
The main plumbing is 2". The only way I could get that cooler is with 2.5" in and outlet, (Not complaining for 170 bucks!) so I used some reducers from Treadstone to mate it all up http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Silicone+Hose (http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Silicone+Hose)
I may see more of a pressure drop than the rating the cooler manufacturer sugests, but should be minimal. A few button pushes on the Tru-Boost will take care of that! I was hitting 8psi on the gate previously, I'm gunna say 6.5 to 7 now.
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Are we all riding the credit card to LS?
Thats the rumor!
:'( :'(
;D
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Dam no cash for the whores ;D
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DS is coming over on Saturday to help me line the ceiling on the trailer. How close are you to being good to go?
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He better be damn close. I've got his flag held for ransom! LOL!!!!
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So how did the testing go this weekend? The grapevine say you are real slow :o
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So how did the testing go this weekend? The grapevine say you are real slow :o
Well it about made me crap myself when I jumped on it on the blacktop Sunday @ 8psi, so I'm thinking I'm making some progress.. ;) Although no stains in the underwear, so yea..still slow.. ;D ;D
I am going to go over some more logs tonight, and I have some video to edit showing 6 psi and 8 psi against a very stout Banshee... >:D
Right now I can say that the Portfueller has incredible transition manners from on and off boost. I will get some pics up of the Log file showing the fuel curve in and out of boost. The stock fuel map was pretty good up to about 6 psi at 50% throttle load, I got that dialed in pretty good (needs more work..still a bit on the rich side although) TPS positions above 50% and 6+ psi need some enrichment. All in all not bad for the first afternoon out!
The intercooler is working WAY beyond my expectations.. After a hard 5th and 6th gear pull across a 1/2 mile stretch the outside of the plenum was at ambient temps (outside was 70 degrees and 70% humidity) jj:
BOV setting is getting close. I think I might need to loosen it up a bit more. The logs are showing a short rich spike after snapping the throttle shut in boost. It sounds wicked when it blows open at higher boost!
Also I tested the new 11400 Rpm limiter..........yea .... the two stage button works... :-\
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I can't wait!
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Captain we have ludicrus speeeeeedd. A little bird told me you made him strip his underware! :) ii: 3: 10: jj: ;D
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Captain we have ludicrus speeeeeedd. A little bird told me you made him strip his underware! :) ii: 3: 10: jj: ;D
:m :m :m
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The logs are showing a short rich spike after snapping the throttle shut in boost.
*Note to self* .....aaaand anyone else that uses Innovate products..
#1 ALWAYS connect your Aux Box (LMA3) or DL-32's map sensor port to ALL 4 THROTTLE BODIES. Referencing only one or two intake tracts will show up on logs as erratic boost spikes when snapping the throttle shut or open rendering the logs mostly useless. "18 psi my ass!" The highest the True-Boost ever referenced Sunday was 8..(I got the gate set where I want it!)
#2 If you ever start seeing error codes randomly popping up on an LM-1, LM-2 or LC-1, replace you Bosch wideband 02 Sensor ($60 bucks, shop around ;)). Random codes have to do with the internal heat element ceramic is cracked. Cracked sensors will still function, but cannot maintain proper voltages to the heater causing E-2. E-6, and E9 errors, usually in hard boost, and part throttle decell. Recalibrating the heater will only help for a the next couple of runs, then more error codes rendering a log useless. An N.A. car may be able to get away with it....for a while.
#3 Install a switched relay to power ANY logging controllers (LM1, LM2, LC1, DL-32) directly off the battery. Innovate products especially. 2 Reasons... They are not at all tolerant to voltage creep or spikes. Also, cracked sensors are generally caused from cold startup. As the sensors internal heater is warming up to 200+ degrees, a cold engine is blasting it with moisture which in turn can cause them to crack and cause all the headaches I have been having! ;D. Leave the sensor power off until the car warms up the exhaust pipe and clears the moisture (20 seconds?) :)
Have a nice day.
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Same issues I had last time.Innovate stuff is good but a bit more fussy than the Edelbrock Quik-data stuff on the race car. I like the compactness of Innovate but if I didn't already have most of it for this car I think I'd go with the edelbrock logger I am familiar with. It's VERY reliable.The 02 sensor issue is ,I think, pretty universal tho.
Soooo,John,are you gonna be ready to impress me at LS?
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Soooo,John,are you gonna be ready to impress me at LS?
Depends,... do you like to fly?
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A few feet at a time!LOL!!!!
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A few feet at a time!LOL!!!!
Well than, I will see what I can do. :) I am a bit of a laid back driver when it comes to having a passenger on board. My theory is to let YOU drive the car, and critique till your head (or mine!!) explodes. ;D To me this is the only way to get to know other machines, get opinions (AKA open diff hatred), and enjoy the drive. Besides, my ears still ring from making people scream the last time I was down!! :m :m
Buuuuttt, I still like taking folks over little jumps and such..... >:D
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I'm the same, I always felt it was OK to take my own life into danger land but I'm a bit restrained with a passenger.
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Oh and ds informed me you LOVE an open diff! LOL!!!!!!!!!
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Oh and ds informed me you LOVE an open diff! LOL!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely ::) I JUST LOVE THEM ::)
....jeffco 4:
that will be another thread upon my return. ;)
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Well than, I will see what I can do. :) I am a bit of a laid back driver when it comes to having a passenger on board. My theory is to let YOU drive the car, and critique till your head (or mine!!) explodes. ;D To me this is the only way to get to know other machines, get opinions (AKA open diff hatred), and enjoy the drive. Besides, my ears still ring from making people scream the last time I was down!! :m :m
Buuuuttt, I still like taking folks over little jumps and such..... >:D
I rarely will drive anothers toy. If I do I'm pretty tame .I just don't feel right beating another persons toy up. I mean ,if I break it ,I feel like I should pay for it and if I gotta pay for it it might as well be mine I break.
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I rarely will drive anothers toy. If I do I'm pretty tame .I just don't feel right beating another persons toy up. I mean ,if I break it ,I feel like I should pay for it and if I gotta pay for it it might as well be mine I break.
Yup, I'm the same way. I'll drive an other guys toys!... but I'm like a bastard child thinking about pissing on an electric fence...I'll look around for permission first before finding out what it feels like.. :P
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Well you just have to trust a person to do just that. Ask permission. Not many can be trusted tho. My opinion is that most people have never driven toys such as you and I have and the temptation for them to "not waste the only opportunity they may ever have" to drive that kind of shit ever again makes them do stupid things to your shit. You know things like how you prefer your car to be shifted,clutch or no clutch,bump rev limiter or not? Simple stuff like that and a bunch more should be discussed first. It just makes for a better experience for both. I have a buddy that drives dragsters for several car owners and does pretty damn well at it. That guy will talk a car owners ear clear the effing OFF before he'll get in the car.
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ff:
Busa's have rev limiters :P
gg:
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Yep,I think enemy bumped his 500 higher too.
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I was just thinking back to driving Lukes car...
And you guys giving me shit cuz I kept short shifting it :P
Shit I had it in my head for months after that.....
BUSA'S HAVE A REV LIMITER...YOU WON'T BLOW IT UP :-*
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No but you might shit your pants! ;D ;D
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No but you might shit your pants! ;D ;D
Naw,
But it did give me insight to the "SHIFTING" crowd