0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
Crap!!!Someone mentioned it earlier, but Torque is what the brake applies to the upright. It is either clockwise or counterclockwise depending if you were going forward or back when the brake is applied. Doesn't matter where the caliper is clocked 360 degrees.That being said, on say the front, the point where the heim's connect in relation to the center of the spindle will affect how much force each arm see's.......On most design's the lower arm is connected closer to the spindle stub. If it was connected centerline with the axle, and we assume the heims are free to rotate, the lower arm would have no affect from the brake TORQUE. The Top arm would control all of the brake torque. The lower arm would see all of the force induced from the tire trying to stop the car, while the top arm would see all of the torque loads.
You can still get antidive or antisquat with inboard brakes. You just need to exaggerate (multiply) it a bit more at the mounts due to the reduced torque effects at the wheel to generate this lift.
I fully understand the self cleaning and that it induces no pull or steering effect. I'm still not convinced that it does not cause some lift or squat depending on front or rear mounting.Someone PLEASE straighten me out by telling me why I'm not seeing this right.I admit I may be totally wrong but need it explained to me so I get it right in my pea brain.
I think the short version is....suspension mounts affect squat or rise, not caliper mount. I agree.
You can still get antidive or antisquat with inboard brakes. You just need to exaggerate (multiply) it a bit more at the mounts due to the reduced torque effects at the wheel to generate this lift. But going to far might make a suspension that is not like you like while simply driving forward with no brakes on. Its that dang compromise again.
I think you need to re-examine this idea. Or explain how it might work when the "reduce" torque effects are in fact only the drag in the bearings and seals.
If I am wrong here please correct me. With the suspension pivots at 90 degrees to the ground your wheels will move straight up and down. And only due to weight transfer. (Given no bumps. Just suspension action talking here) Now (This is meant to be radical on purpose) Angle the suspension pivots to 45 degrees. If you angle them forward 45 degrees then under deceleration the suspension will try to lift the vehicle as the tire attempts to go slower than the chassis. This will happen with inboard or outboard brakes. Its just the leverage factor. You will tend to get more with outboard brakes s you get the turning force applied by the brakes AND the tires force of forwards or backwards (depending on rotation)On the rear accelerating will make the rear squat and then rise on deceleration.On the front just hitting the brakes (saying it has front brakes) would make it rise as well.Same goes for if you angled them backwards 45 degrees. In the rear under accleration it would lift. Under braking or any resistance weather it be brakes applied or simply backing of the throttle hard the rear would drop due to the force applied to the angle. The point?? With inboard brakes you still have any angles in the suspension arms in relation to the frame will still deal with the forward and reverse leverages different angle apply. The 45 degrees was indeed radical but it was just to help show the force will affect a vehicle some ireguardless. Even a few degrees as most suspensions are will be affected SOME. Still dont buy it? Try pushing directly 90 degrees to a hinge. (If on a door to a room this would be straight up or down. (That simulates a suspension with the arms at 90 degrees to the frame) It aint going anywhere more then the slop in the hinge. Yet for every degree of angle you push on it it becomes easier to move. (That simulates a suspesnion with the arms raked however many degrees you are pushing on the door from). But the point is even a few degrees of force WILL affect what they are connected to. So the force of the tire against the ground accelerating or decellerating will transmit this force into the angles you build in and still affect it with dive or antidive. As I mentioned above with no brakes on an axle you would need pretty prominent angles to get the effects. At the cost of sacrificing many other aspects of the suspension you might not wish to for dive or antidive or squat/antisquat. Thats my view on it. What say you? (you being anyone who sees it differently!) I believe I am right. But if you can correct me on it please do so.