new truck sucks

[LiveWire]

Livewire, that probably would improve reliability in the of the consumer, but also at a higher cost.

 I do all the maintenance on my vehicles, and have yet to have one fail on me (Besides a electrical problem in my pickup. The pickup sensor for the HEI died). Personally, I think taking your car to a dealership is a joke. The wheel bearings just went out in our 2002 buick. 102,000 miles, WTF?? Anyways, 250 dollars later, and a couple hours, they were replaced (the fronts). People online complain about it costing 500-750 dollars PER WHEEL. I understand the labor is not cheap, but I will always choose to do my own maintenance, but I also understand how others do not have the know-how/time/patience etc.

It is my point though that the reliability reports are based upon consumer opinion. Most consumers do not work on their own cars. The way the foreign car dealers work it (not just Japanese), it gives the impression of higher reliability by doing more preventive replacement of parts. I used to do all my work and still do much of it. I can't believe how much is it to get brakes done for how easy they are to do. As my available time has decreased, I have been having things done by a good back yard mechanic I found. He knows diesels well which I would not say about the local dealers.

[Engineer]

No censorship needed here E-farmer,you just came up with the answer to everything.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"YUMMI MADE ME DO IT"^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HAHAHA its perfect.

 

[fabr]

Ain't that the truth.Seems like the dealers here need a special diesel mechanic to touch the things.What a crock.

[tenaja]

It is my point though that the reliability reports are based upon consumer opinion. Most consumers do not work on their own cars. ...

I quoted my numbers from ConsumerReports.org . Their data is from over 1.4 million cars over ten years. All of their questionnaires are the same--the customer has to fill in the car type. There is no bias, and it's simple... put a circle in every place you've had problems. The thing I like a bout CR is they don't take advertising from anybody, and they don't set out to "prove" anything; they set out to discover what's best.

[fabr]

Trouble is that they don't have a clue as to what they speak. Ever see something you know is a POS rated there highly? I'm sure we all have.

[tenaja]

Yea, but not as nearly as often as anywhere else. At least they get it right better than 95% of the time.

[fabr]

Ok..................

[LiveWire]

I quoted my numbers from ConsumerReports.org . Their data is from over 1.4 million cars over ten years. All of their questionnaires are the same--the customer has to fill in the car type. There is no bias, and it's simple... put a circle in every place you've had problems. The thing I like a bout CR is they don't take advertising from anybody, and they don't set out to "prove" anything; they set out to discover what's best.

A person who had their ball joint replaced by the dealer during a maintenance checkup would not likely check a box that said they had problems with steering or suspension. A person who waited for the ball joint to go bad would be likely to check that.

A person who is told the battery should be replaced at it's age or the little green indicator is gone is not likely to report they had a problem with their electrical system. Someone who waits until the car doesn't start is.

Someone at work bought a Scion. I picked him up and dropped him off for 3 repairs at the dealer within the first 2 months he owned it. Yet he still insisted his car was more reliable than the Saturn Ion Redline that someone else I work with bought at the same time that had not needed any repairs. The Scion owner rationalized why each thing was not a reliability issue. It's all opinion based. Opinions all tend to be biased. A person who buys a foreign car because they say it is more reliable will bias his/her opinions in order to rationalize the decision to buy the car.

[tenaja]

Someone at work bought a Scion. I picked him up and dropped him off for 3 repairs at the dealer within the first 2 months he owned it. Yet he still insisted his car was more reliable than the Saturn Ion Redline that someone else I work with bought at the same time that had not needed any repairs. The Scion owner rationalized why each thing was not a reliability issue. It's all opinion based. Opinions all tend to be biased. A person who buys a foreign car because they say it is more reliable will bias his/her opinions in order to rationalize the decision to buy the car.

Your story is anecdotal. My Dad bought a Chevy truck, and had to have major work done every year, until he was sick of pouring money into it and being with out it, and got rid of it when it was a year past the warranty. He bought a Toyota, and never once had to fix it in three years. That's anecdotal, too. One story does not make a trend, even if it supports your viewpoint.

1.4 million reviews is not anecdotal. You are not going to get a million people to say they had tranny problems on brand A but not brand B. No, they check off a list of anything they've had problems with, and you get a bell curve of reality and what to expect.

Statistically speaking, people in the midwest claim American cars are more reliable than people on the coasts. Maybe it has something to do with where the bread and butter comes from.

[Engineer]

I think your both making excellant points.

I think LiveWire is on to something with the dealers suggesting preventative maintenance.  It is actually a brilliant strategy, and would affect how people view the reliability of their vehicle, including how they answered questions about it.

It is also probably why we all hear stories about the $1500 water pump or $1500 injectors.  They are probably forgetting that the service manager got them to sign up for new brakes, oil change, new filters, timing belt and a tranny flush at the same time.  If I ever have any dealer work done, when the service manager approaches me about blah blah blah that needs fixed, I tell them to get lost, just like most of the people on this board that have mechanical abilities.

[Boostinjdm]

You really got to watch the dealers.  I bought some bushings from a dealer once.  They were like $6 each.  So I was like cool $12 to get my car back on the road.  I went to pick them up and he said "we can press them in for ya if you want..."  so I said cool here ya go.  I handed him the parts and he walks away.  Five minutes later he comes back and hands me the bill with the parts.  $12 for the bushings, $68 for five minutes pressing them in.  I said what the hell?  He told me they have a minimum of an hour charge for any labor.... If he would of said that up front I wouldn't of had him press the bushings in.  I expected to pay something, but that was just wrong.

[LiveWire]

Your story is anecdotal. My Dad bought a Chevy truck, and had to have major work done every year, until he was sick of pouring money into it and being with out it, and got rid of it when it was a year past the warranty. He bought a Toyota, and never once had to fix it in three years. That's anecdotal, too. One story does not make a trend, even if it supports your viewpoint.

1.4 million reviews is not anecdotal. You are not going to get a million people to say they had tranny problems on brand A but not brand B. No, they check off a list of anything they've had problems with, and you get a bell curve of reality and what to expect.

Statistically speaking, people in the midwest claim American cars are more reliable than people on the coasts. Maybe it has something to do with where the bread and butter comes from.

My point was not to provide an example of a a Toyota being crap, but to show how unreliable consumer feedback data is. In fact, Consumer Reports method is in fact anecdotal evidence, just a larger sampling of it.

I think LiveWire is on to something with the dealers suggesting preventative maintenance.  It is actually a brilliant strategy, and would affect how people view the reliability of their vehicle, including how they answered questions about it.

Summarized quite well.