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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Controls and Electrical => Topic started by: Yummi on January 05, 2013, 07:03:19 PM
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I am stumped and I have looked for the answer on the K4 website and else where. But I am stumped.
Bought an ignition switch - K4 - kind of a universal deal. Four posts on the rear. The three at the edges are marked BAT, IGN and ACC. If I look real close the fourth post in the middle it is marked "ST"
Down with most all of that. Most.
Assume the ACC is trigger for relays, etc that run when the ignition is on and it will work in both "accessory" position as well as "run" position?
The Bat seems self explanatory.
The IGN I assume runs the ignition system?
The ST or fourth post at the very rear / center is for the starter?
Again, I have searched, but the closest I could find was this.....
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff276%2Fisenegger%2FIgnitionSwitchConnector.gif&hash=308420b48978ef1ef5d0008b731a278d06f1bea6)
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I believe you have it right. Break out the ohm meter to check it out tho.
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st would be starter and acc should run in on pos and acc pos which that uni switch should do both as well. It looks like the one i used on my v-6 rail but cannot use on my current busa rail. :'( and I bought a real nice and expensive one before I figured that one out! oh well more parts in stock right rofl
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Batt - is the big red wire from the battery or otherwise the power input to the switch.
Acc - is the power to everything except the coil. On an old points ignition car this would let you listen to the radio without ruining the points. Nowadays it lets you leave all the lights on without the engine running i.e. you can turn the engine off and everything else will stay powered up.
Ign - is the power wire to the coil or on a modern car the wire that is for the ignition.
ST - is the wire that actually makes the starter motor crank the engine over and will be the momentary contact that the switch springs back from when you turn it enough to crank the motor over.
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Thanks,
Also found a Doorman switch that is identical and confirmed my hunch.
Last trip out it had an issue starting. No juice to the ignition side. Sat at the top of Olds for about 1/2 hour waiting to be towed back to camp after everybody else in the group made a dune run, figured I would see if it started and Viola! fired right up. I hate electrical intermittent issues. So brought it home a few hours early and started the rewire.
Not a pretty sight up under the dash currently. But that will change. There is nothing but space under the hood. For the life of me I don't understand why they opted for a rats nest under the dash. I hate cleaning up wiring messes. Guess on the bright side I will be able to sort them in the future?
Current condition and soon to be reworked parts...
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What? What's wrong with the rats nest? I bet the mouse liked it.
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But wait, there is more. Lots of wire run through the body. Lots of it with out a shield. Think that is a recipe for disaster? Or a recipe for a short or two? The one clear picture does not look too bad. The darker one shows that apparently they ran out of conduit?
I don't mine rewiring, but I hate sorting what goes where and what does what. What can be cut, what must stay. thumb down
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Unfortunately many people have no clue as to how to reliably run wiring. Everyone has their own ideas . Some want the wiring hid as much as possible others,like myself, want it visible and easily accessible . Whatever way done though attention to details are important.
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Unfortunately many people have no clue as to how to reliably run wiring. Everyone has their own ideas . Some want the wiring hid as much as possible others,like myself, want it visible and easily accessible . Whatever way done though attention to details are important.
Yes on that. It does not have to be ugly when visible. Not a fan at all of wires through cage / body on off road car. Sure makes for an easier fix of something does go wrong.
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Copy that.
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Wiring turns into a rats nest all on its own. I sat down and planned out my rail before it was done being welded. Now with add ons since no rail is ever completed! I dare say its is getting bad in my car. 1 problem is getting ahold of different colors of wire. Back here all I found was blk, red, yellow, green, blue, brown. I sure as hell need more than that. And I used relays on almost everything to keep power runs short and out of my console. Under my guages is a nightmare. Ran out of space fast. I agree with not running it in the chassis tube. But I like to make sure it is protected as much as possiable.
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Well, one thing I am fast learning is that one should plan ahead. With that in mind and the new fuse blocks installed I am trying to figure fuse sizes. Few days left before that is a concern.
So, on the set of 100 watt halogens, I figure 8.33 amp draw. Would I then just double that to 15 amps for fuse size?
On the set of 70 watt HIDs I know there is a start load but have no clue what that is? How would I select fuse for that? The run draw is 5.833 amps.
I figure fan and fuel pump at 30a just because. Ignition switch with ACC position and starter load? (Well, not the full starter load but you know what I mean)
But what about the rest of the stuff I have no idea on the draw or start up?
I will throw some progress pictures up later today. My goal is really very simple. Clean up the nest and make it so the next guy who works on it can figure it out without taking a wild ass guess. I figure if I manage that it is wildly successful. I can fully appreciate the nice pretty wire jobs now.
BTW, good thing work is a bit slow - I figure I have 25 hours into this project so far and I have not tackled the tough "left side" with the gauge wiring and dash pull out yet. Guessing a total of 60 hours for this project.
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Just a quick thought. Fuses/circuit breakers are to protect the wiring and not the item it is hooked to. What wiring sizes are you planning on?
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Most of it is 12 / 14. Couple larger for high draw items. Would you not have to consider draw to figure fuse size?
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Most of it is 12 / 14. Couple larger for high draw items. Would you not have to consider draw to figure fuse size?
One more thing to consider is using Auto reset fuze's. I use them in all my stuff and have really good luck. If something should ground in a fan or light they are like a breaker. Off for the ground then back on in a minuet. They will stay off as long as the ground is present. That way you don't have to carry a bunch of fuze's with you. Works for me anyways.
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One more thing to consider is using Auto reset fuze's. I use them in all my stuff and have really good luck. If something should ground in a fan or light they are like a breaker. Off for the ground then back on in a minuet. They will stay off as long as the ground is present. That way you don't have to carry a bunch of fuze's with you. Works for me anyways.
That will be a nice upgrade once I have it all sorted. Found them for $5.73 each?
Guess one and done is the good aspect?
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/p185_12volt_atc_circuit_breaker.html (http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/p185_12volt_atc_circuit_breaker.html)
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Most of it is 12 / 14. Couple larger for high draw items. Would you not have to consider draw to figure fuse size?
Sure ,but you are still protecting the wiring and not the device. In other words there is no reason to oversize wiring since the wire size should be based on current draw. Adequate but not oversize wiring is the best school of thought on a well planned layout. Most wires we use could be smaller and that just makes for a neater install. A fuse only needs to be large enough to cover running loads and if you use circuit breakers as fast suggested(I do,damn well worth the few extra bux) they need no oversizing . Just keep in mind that the device wired in will always use fewer amps than the fuse rating and the only way there will be more draw is if the device has failed and grounded out . It's already toast and the wiring is the only thing needing protected by a fuse. That is the purpose of a fuse,to keep the wiring from blazing. Many,many car fires are due to not understanding that.
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So the answer is wire size is determined by load and fuse size is determined by wire size?
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Back to fuse size selection. Found this - easy read and explains relationship of wires to load, etc. That being the case some of the light wires have a relativly small wire at the mount, etc. Seems like a 14/16 or so for some of the lights.
http://www.oznium.com/forum/topic15761 (http://www.oznium.com/forum/topic15761)
Didn't see the post but ,ya,that chart is what I'm talking about and like your lights with 14 or 16 ga. There is no need or reason to go larger than the leads coming off them. Some things may be even 22 ga. Same rule applies. Larger wires are a waste and make for a stiff and harder to neatly route wire bundle also.
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So the answer is wire size is determined by load and fuse size is determined by wire size?
No, fuse size will still be determined by load as is wire size. Balance the system.
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I like that those breaker/fuses fit in standard fuse socket. The ones I was spying were larger square ones. But I did like Fabr suggested, most wires in mine are 22g, ext harness gauges and all the sensors. Fan, lights, fuel pump are 14g and maybe a 10g for main power. Put in wire loom that is exposed for an easy search. And no crimp on crap, soldier and heatshrink!!
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I've always been a solder and heat shrink guy myself BUT there are those who believe there are reasons that crimp is actually better than solder. I'm slowly being convinced they are right.
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I went crimp and shrink.
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Maybe the "quality" of the crimp. And most over squeeze the crimp tool breaking some wires. Crimp is faster ;)
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I only use adhesive lined shrink tube also for a waterproof seal.
I have recently began doing mostly crimp. Most OEM's have gone exclusively to higher quality crimp terminations. Carl has a very good point about proper crimping also. I am shocked at the price of quality crimpers, dedicated to the type of terminal and wire size ,are. :o :o On new car I'm going to use a lot of weatherpak type connectors and they need special crimpers also. eyes Oh well,lots faster and dependable if done right.
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So as promised, here are some "progress" pictures. Did not get much done on it today. Seemed tough to work on for some reason. Called it good for today and walked away. New fuse / relay area, and even picked up a fancy LED license plate light to stay legal for the runs to Sonic. Added a horn to boot.
As my primary goal is if / when somebody comes behind me then can figure it out, I went ahead and labeled all the circuits.
Figure I am around 45 / 50% done. Started at left front headlight working in a clockwise fashion and next is engine area then left tail light. Then off to dash area, sort that and be done.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi305.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn211%2Fjsaal_bucket%2FIMG_1412Medium_zpscb730bad.jpg&hash=ded2b9f913fa702313ec3585c4a83d8a423da672)
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Nice and neat. Looks very good.
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Looking good Jeff. Feel's good to step back and admire your work when done. Able to say I did that. Knowing what you have when done is very gratifying. Keep up the good work. Maybe come down and spend the week end with us some time with the new jeep and we can all go over the mountain together.
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Don't know which would be better for that the Jeep or the Buggy? I am thinking Jep when it has brush and buggy for the flats. Either way it will be fun.
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Don't know which would be better for that the Jeep or the Buggy? I am thinking Jep when it has brush and buggy for the flats. Either way it will be fun.
Jeep would be the best. My car is 92 wide on the ground with the off road tires. There are places that I was scrubbing the outside wall on them. On a side note I want to know how to report you to the moderator. Your having way to much fun and I'm working to dam hard. LOL.
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Well, yesterday I pulled the dash. Frustrated at that very moment. Was having a heck of a time figuring out what did what. Walked away from it yesterday. Today was a new day. Removed the last of my nemesis; "the nest." Threw it on the driveway and did a victory dance around it. Neighbors think I am daft.
By chasing each lead out I was able to sort it all but the ignition wire I cut on accident. That is the one last bug a boo. Managed to get the dash out 100%. Set it on the table and have spent the last five hours re-working all of it. Time again for a break I think. Tedious.
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LOL!!! I feel your pain. I HATE redoing anything. Looking good though!
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Wow, starting to see progress. Made a lot of it today it seems. We are slower than I would like at work so I took half day and got a lot done.
Fuse relay area is 100%. Dash area is about 90%. Still have to run power to GPS, intercom and Radio. Chase five wires down the left side of the car, then a few odd and ends and I will be done.
Would have liked backside of the dash to come out a bit tidier, but that is a take away for next time if I ever do this again. Smaller gauge wire on back side of dash would have helped.
So far pretty pleased with it. Course the real test will be when we hook the battery back up and see if everything works.
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Figure about 6 / 8 hours left (https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi305.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn211%2Fjsaal_bucket%2FRimfire%2Fyay.gif&hash=a33e5b35065d9978e17e677c69134d593b9b33fb)
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Nice job yum. 99% of all cars are not nearly as well done. Congrats on being a 1%er!!!!!
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Nice job yum. 99% of all cars are not nearly as well done. Congrats on being a 1%er!!!!!
Thanks, you are too generous with 1% but based on what I seen from three cars, I would put it at 10% or better than 90%.
Thanks again.
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99% done. Get those circuit breakers in place of fuses and you are 100% . Great writeup.
I should add that even though I am a fan of circuit breakers there are times when a fuse would be maybe more appropriate,such as higher amp stuff like head lights.Breakers are fine for the head light relays, as an example, but fuses would be a better choice for the high amp light circuit itself.
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Nice work. I just had a new autometer gauge in my dads car turn in to a complete rewire. I wired it about 7 years ago. I have got much beter at wiring after wiring 4 other cars since. I wanted it to look cleaner and change some functions. A real headache but worth it in the end. I hate messy wiring.