what to do what to do

[dsrace]

so as everyone knows i seized my megasand transaxle. was i surprised.....no but was sad it didn't make it back to atleast the gate  all in all not a surprise as it was missing 4th upon arrival. have i mentioned how much i hate cv grease 

so looking around at good transaxle options i have looked at the ever so popular 2d and am looking at the weddle hv series. i am having a hard time dropping that much money on a transaxle solely because price vs performance. i have $5k sunk into my boat anchor already and knew better but gave it a try anyway based on other info. that other info was based on much smoother and more forgiving dunes  the worst part of it all is for $4500 you can buy a built e40d rated for 1200 tq for a diesel truck but $8k for an hv1 only rated for 450 tq. the 2d btw is only rated for 350 tq ( latest #'s) and that's input tq. now that of course varies based on wet weight, tire size etc etc and the level of short circuit we all posses between our brains and right foot 

we won't get into the short comings or plus's of the megasand  but i will say it was a love hate relationship  in the end the gear stack and pinion bearing just weren't strong enough for the de-tuned ford 2.3 and small hair dryer!  grimm was kind enough to record part of that  https://www.facebook.com/100002041011391/videos/pcb.4334384223306235/3184399488461612

after driving brian S's taz rail with the cvt, i decided to look into that some.  never thought i would join rubber band round up #rbru  ( yes that was for deranged)  but none the less that belt is forgiving in a few ways. so he has a lighter weight rail, 2.2 ecotech engine and small tires. it drives very nice and i liked the feel of the auto. i have seen a few predator x 18's at the dunes and those owners seem to like them plus they kept up and were very capable. so some time back, a friend of mine sent me some info on where they supposedly got the gear box's for the x18's..... turns out that wasn't true and that the owner just told folks that.  after a little research and a couple of phone calls, turns out there gear box was a knock off of the gen 1 rpm box. i verified this with don personally and he told me he doesn't make gears for those box's nor does predator any longer. so i do believe he builds a nice and very capable product as carl and jerzdunz have tested pretty good. he only rates that box at 250 hp and stated that chain drive sport bike engines are hard as hell on rev box's where cvt's are far more forgiving. this we all know.

i found the 250 hp rating interesting so i asked how much tq he rates that box for....... he said he just rates it for 250 hp. he went on to tell me that tq is based on hp and that hp is the real factor.  i wasn't sure how to respond to that so i simply let it go. maybe i heard him wrong as i was at work still. i suppose that when considering a bike engine that hp would be a more useful rating as they make more hp based on there higher rpm range. we all know there is a cross over point in the rpm band where tq/ hp cross. correct me if i am wrong but i think the common rpm crossover point is 5252.  none the less he is a very nice person to speak with and is building what sounded to be a stronger version for the taz car owner.

bottom line is that the rpm box, with a cvt, would rain down a shower of parts from butter cup to cowboy camp bolted to my 2.3 at 30 psi boost     btw carl, dan was surprised that your rpm box was holding up to a 1500 lb rail running 1300 stu paddles with a zx12r at 12 psi boost . looked like it did a fantastic job to me!  he thinks that is great but you could hear the shock in his voice  i am pretty sure jerzdunz rail is heavier than yours and his is a boosted honda 1100 i believe.

so since that idea is out the window, i turned back to considering another bike powered. of course with a turbo. for what the trans will cost i can build a new bike powered rail with existing parts off my current rail. now the 1450 paddle tires won't swap so new 1300 stu's that are getting harder to get apparently. the sxs market has pushed tire manufacturers a diff direction or is pushing them i should say. there is a lot of upsides to another bike powered plus i really like them. enemy's busa build is very appealing especially at 25 psi! his jeffco won't take it but a sprocket drive would...... i think  of course a boosted 14r would be exciting as well. enemy thanks for looking up the build cost for the 25 psi busa build.  not off the table as of yet!! sort of get amped up when i think about it especially if i could keep the wet weight between 1/1200 lbs!

last night i reached out to transman to discuss the differences between the 2d and hv series. glenns transaxle go to guy had made a statement to me while rebuilding my megasand...... he said the 2d was the honda accord of the transaxle world. he was saying they are the least expensive with good power capabilities. i shot him a text and asked again what his thoughts were based on my turbo 2.3 at 30 psi. he said that with a properly built 2d, he could run a turbo ls engine where some would snap them with a 6cyl. i assumed he was referring to our friend glenn  but he thought it would be great bolted to a turbo 2.3 as long as one didn't thrash it. i do not side step the clutch but those trails and whoops get pretty hard on trans. prob why mine got hot and puked so much oil out that many times! it is a well known fact that these 2.3's usually make more tq then hp or usually equal. that doesn't go for the guys turning them at 8k rpm either! enemy    the non plunge 930's on my rail have gotten so hot they look like i've cooked the power coat off of them. i'm just going to keep telling myself thats from sand blasting not heat 

so here is an interesting piece of info.... the megasand e box i have is a knock off of the mendi e box. i have the same performance weddle gear stack ( 1st thru 4th and rev) as the 3 rib bus trans, sedan transaxle and the mendi e box that i believe is called the mendi 4e. the thicker stronger 3 speed gears were the saving grace the first 3 years but it still puked oil out with those. we all know how the 4 speed conversion worked out  and i de-tuned too!  so the megasand is 2" wider then the 2d which uses the 091 r&p style diff. the weddle hv series are 2" narrower then the 2d series ( according to weddles site). that means i would be 4" narrower than current and imo requires a new rear end. i could build 1" spacers for a 2d which would be hard on that trans but doable.  i have all the steel tube to build a new frame and have learned a lot from experimenting with the current. i do not want to cut this one up again to make changes as with my jigs its faster to build new..... in my case that is.

so after speaking with transman and looking up/reading some info on weddle's site, the hv1 trans is stronger than the 2d. larger bearings, more bearings and a beefed up case with the provisions for internal oiling system with external cooler. found it interesting that they added a 2nd bearing on the shaft to support 3rd/4th. basically rated a 100/100 hp/tq higher then the 2d but $1k more. i believe it's worth the extra $1k imo. i have tried to find a used 2d but no mid engine or geared wrong which sends me back to new prices. i called transman to verify he can rebuild the hv and the mendi.....he can do both. shipping them off out of state was a royal pia last time where he is only a 1.5 hr drive west of myself plus he builds quality transaxles based on many experiences.

briefly spoke with enemy about these decisions and even more briefly with zoomies ( allan). allan listened, then looked at me and said " you'll never be happy with less tq" which is a valid point just not what i wanted to hear     

the idea of a future ecoboost 3.5 twin turbo still really appeals to me. the hv1 won't take that nor 930 cv's imo. i was looking at the hv24 and 25 as well. i do believe the 3.5 would fit the hv24's max rating and of course those are conservative ratings but i think i'll follow them for a decent life on these trans.  the ecoboost on 91 octane are capable of an easy 500 hp. on e85 with little mods they are holding at 600 hp. def need a better frame and suspension for that.

the 2.7 ecoboost is factory 325 hp and 400 tq with canned tunes out already for a 60 hp bump on 91 octane. the sad part is the transaxle is just the weak link of the sport and imo, an over priced weak link. $1800 for 50k mile  stock motor all over in the salvage yards as well.

so budliight this is why i said the spring trip is up in the air. tech i do have a 2nd rail i could bring down with a fair amount of work.

fabr, enemy, carl, budlight, big dave.... interested in your thoughts?

[dsrace]

 i like the idea of the planetary diff option

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:Weddle-5-speed-Transaxle-New-180263

[fabr]

so as everyone knows i seized my megasand transaxle. was i surprised.....no but was sad it didn't make it back to atleast the gate  all in all not a surprise as it was missing 4th upon arrival. have i mentioned how much i hate cv grease 

so looking around at good transaxle options i have looked at the ever so popular 2d and am looking at the weddle hv series. i am having a hard time dropping that much money on a transaxle solely because price vs performance. i have $5k sunk into my boat anchor already and knew better but gave it a try anyway based on other info. that other info was based on much smoother and more forgiving dunes  the worst part of it all is for $4500 you can buy a built e40d rated for 1200 tq for a diesel truck but $8k for an hv1 only rated for 450 tq. the 2d btw is only rated for 350 tq ( latest #'s) and that's input tq. now that of course varies based on wet weight, tire size etc etc and the level of short circuit we all posses between our brains and right foot 

we won't get into the short comings or plus's of the megasand  but i will say it was a love hate relationship  in the end the gear stack and pinion bearing just weren't strong enough for the de-tuned ford 2.3 and small hair dryer!  grimm was kind enough to record part of that  https://www.facebook.com/100002041011391/videos/pcb.4334384223306235/3184399488461612

after driving brian S's taz rail with the cvt, i decided to look into that some.  never thought i would join rubber band round up #rbru  ( yes that was for deranged)  but none the less that belt is forgiving in a few ways. so he has a lighter weight rail, 2.2 ecotech engine and small tires. it drives very nice and i liked the feel of the auto. i have seen a few predator x 18's at the dunes and those owners seem to like them plus they kept up and were very capable. so some time back, a friend of mine sent me some info on where they supposedly got the gear box's for the x18's..... turns out that wasn't true and that the owner just told folks that.  after a little research and a couple of phone calls, turns out there gear box was a knock off of the gen 1 rpm box. i verified this with don personally and he told me he doesn't make gears for those box's nor does predator any longer. so i do believe he builds a nice and very capable product as carl and jerzdunz have tested pretty good. he only rates that box at 250 hp and stated that chain drive sport bike engines are hard as hell on rev box's where cvt's are far more forgiving. this we all know.

i found the 250 hp rating interesting so i asked how much tq he rates that box for....... he said he just rates it for 250 hp. he went on to tell me that tq is based on hp and that hp is the real factor.  i He's got it a bit wrong. HP is just a math thing based upon a real measurable input-torque. In reality all boxes should be spec'ed by torque capacity at all rpm points.Sadly none are though since that would require require real testing .Therefore you get to be the guinea pig.wasn't sure how to respond to that so i simply let it go. maybe i heard him wrong as i was at work still. i suppose that when considering a bike engine that hp would be a more useful rating as they make more hp based on there higher rpm range. we all know there is a cross over point in the rpm band where tq/ hp cross. correct me if i am wrong but i think the common rpm crossover point is 5252. That  is correct. Measured torque is used to calculate the fictional HP .The formula for calc'ing HP always cross at 5252 rpm. none the less he is a very nice person to speak with and is building what sounded to be a stronger version for the taz car owner.

bottom line is that the rpm box, with a cvt, would rain down a shower of parts from butter cup to cowboy camp bolted to my 2.3 at 30 psi boost     btw carl, dan was surprised that your rpm box was holding up to a 1500 lb rail running 1300 stu paddles with a zx12r at 12 psi boost . looked like it did a fantastic job to me!  he thinks that is great but you could hear the shock in his voice  i am pretty sure jerzdunz rail is heavier than yours and his is a boosted honda 1100 i believe.

so since that idea is out the window, i turned back to considering another bike powered. of course with a turbo. for what the trans will cost i can build a new bike powered rail with existing parts off my current rail. now the 1450 paddle tires won't swap so new 1300 stu's that are getting harder to get apparently. the sxs market has pushed tire manufacturers a diff direction or is pushing them i should say. there is a lot of upsides to another bike powered plus i really like them. enemy's busa build is very appealing especially at 25 psi! his jeffco won't take it but a sprocket drive would...... i think  of course a boosted 14r would be exciting as well. enemy thanks for looking up the build cost for the 25 psi busa build.  not off the table as of yet!! sort of get amped up when i think about it especially if i could keep the wet weight between 1/1200 lbs!

last night i reached out to transman to discuss the differences between the 2d and hv series. glenns transaxle go to guy had made a statement to me while rebuilding my megasand...... he said the 2d was the honda accord of the transaxle world. he was saying they are the least expensive with good power capabilities. i shot him a text and asked again what his thoughts were based on my turbo 2.3 at 30 psi. he said that with a properly built 2d, he could run a turbo ls engine where some would snap them with a 6cyl. i assumed he was referring to our friend glenn  but he thought it would be great bolted to a turbo 2.3 as long as one didn't thrash it. i do not side step the clutch but those trails and whoops get pretty hard on trans. prob why mine got hot and puked so much oil out that many times! it is a well known fact that these 2.3's usually make more tq then hp or usually equal. that doesn't go for the guys turning them at 8k rpm either! enemy    the non plunge 930's on my rail have gotten so hot they look like i've cooked the power coat off of them.I know it's not your style but if you lowered your car a few inches and ran less cv angle that wouldn't occur. i'm just going to keep telling myself thats from sand blasting not heat 

so here is an interesting piece of info.... the megasand e box i have is a knock off of the mendi e box. i have the same performance weddle gear stack ( 1st thru 4th and rev) as the 3 rib bus trans, sedan transaxle and the mendi e box that i believe is called the mendi 4e. the thicker stronger 3 speed gears were the saving grace the first 3 years but it still puked oil out with those. we all know how the 4 speed conversion worked out  and i de-tuned too!  so the megasand is 2" wider then the 2d which uses the 091 r&p style diff. the weddle hv series are 2" narrower then the 2d series ( according to weddles site). that means i would be 4" narrower than current and imo requires a new rear end. i could build 1" spacers for a 2d which would be hard on that trans but doable.  i have all the steel tube to build a new frame and have learned a lot from experimenting with the current. i do not want to cut this one up again to make changes as with my jigs its faster to build new..... in my case that is.

so after speaking with transman and looking up/reading some info on weddle's site, the hv1 trans is stronger than the 2d. larger bearings, more bearings and a beefed up case with the provisions for internal oiling system with external cooler. found it interesting that they added a 2nd bearing on the shaft to support 3rd/4th. basically rated a 100/100 hp/tq higher then the 2d but $1k more. i believe it's worth the extra $1k imo. i have tried to find a used 2d but no mid engine or geared wrong which sends me back to new prices. i called transman to verify he can rebuild the hv and the mendi.....he can do both. shipping them off out of state was a royal pia last time where he is only a 1.5 hr drive west of myself plus he builds quality transaxles based on many experiences. Personally,I view the mendi as a weak alternative to the weddle. You will never be disappointed with a stronger than needed trans.

briefly spoke with enemy about these decisions and even more briefly with zoomies ( allan). allan listened, then looked at me and said " you'll never be happy with less tq" which is a valid point just not what i wanted to hear      DITTO!!!

the idea of a future ecoboost 3.5 twin turbo still really appeals to me. the hv1 won't take that nor 930 cv's imo. i was looking at the hv24 and 25 as well. i do believe the 3.5 would fit the hv24's max rating and of course those are conservative ratings but i think i'll follow them for a decent life on these trans.  the ecoboost on 91 octane are capable of an easy 500 hp. on e85 with little mods they are holding at 600 hp. def need a better frame and suspension for that.HP doesn't mean didly. How much tq at what rpm is all that matters but as we all know no mfg out there will divulge that .My point is that 500 HP @ 9000 rpm is a lot different than 500 HP @ 4000 rpm.

the 2.7 ecoboost is factory 325 hp and 400 tq with canned tunes out already for a 60 hp bump on 91 octane. the sad part is the transaxle is just the weak link of the sport and imo, an over priced weak link. $1800 for 50k mile  stock motor all over in the salvage yards as well.

so budliight this is why i said the spring trip is up in the air. tech i do have a 2nd rail i could bring down with a fair amount of work.

fabr, enemy, carl, budlight, big dave.... interested in your thoughts?

  Just touching briefly on the above points.

[fabr]

i like the idea of the planetary diff option

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:Weddle-5-speed-Transaxle-New-180263

I'm not familiar with the planetary diff? but if it is a torsen style I'd maybe think twice.

[BrianN]

fabr, would you clarify why or if you do not recommend a torsen style diff? I am considering a  6 speed Subaru trans. The wrx has a dccd lsd, and the Spec B has an open diff. I would choose the open diff, because the dccd requires a controller. Both transmissions are supposed to be the same, except for the diff. I have thought about swapping it to a torsen style diff for strength, but I read the stock open diff was stronger. I do not understand each type good enough to make the decision. Although, I would MUCH prefer to leave it stock!

[dsrace]

if i were to choose one of the ecoboost engines..... it would be the 2.7 twin turbo. they made 5 times more of them and they still make 310hp and 400 tq at the  wheels in stock mode, on pump fuel! with appropriat mods even more  remove the standard with better flowing intake and exh and maybe a few more but honestly, 400 tq at 3200 rpm is more than i have now and on pump fuel.




on e85 with mods

[dsrace]

no idea if it is tq biasing or not to be honest. just know that weddle calls it a planetary atb diff

https://weddleindustries.com/products/HV-520-OPT/HV-520-OPT

[dsrace]

https://ultimateoffroading.com/best-limited-slip-differential-for-off-road/

they say torsen lsd is the best but i can see that 180* off/worst for the dunes.

[fabr]

fabr, would you clarify why or if you do not recommend a torsen style diff? I am considering a  6 speed Subaru trans. The wrx has a dccd lsd, and the Spec B has an open diff. I would choose the open diff, because the dccd requires a controller. Both transmissions are supposed to be the same, except for the diff. I have thought about swapping it to a torsen style diff for strength, but I read the stock open diff was stronger. I do not understand each type good enough to make the decision. Although, I would MUCH prefer to leave it stock!

The torsen type diffs have their place but with our constantly changing traction from side to side ,IMO, they will not be reliable. The small contact area of the torsen helical gears concern me. It's still an open diff that automatically biases torque to the side of most traction. Situations where we might catch a bit of air and come down on one rear tire before the other will shock the hell out of those little helicals. A good 4 spider open diff is much tougher,IMO.  My $.02

[fabr]

https://ultimateoffroading.com/best-limited-slip-differential-for-off-road/

they say torsen lsd is the best but i can see that 180* off for the dunes.

Brian N and ds, this is from the link ds posted "The disadvantage of Torsen LSD is that when one wheel lifts off the contact surface and spins freely, there will be no torque transmitted to either wheel. Some torque is required to the worm gears to generate the required thrust force according to the designed bias ratio. The vehicle would require the torque on the other axle to move out of this situation until the affected axle gains some traction again." 

[fabr]

I would consider having transman build you a VW 094 side shifter from a waterboxer. They have a much larger/stronger reverse gear . Put a super diff in it with weddle guts with your current engine and driving style I think you'd be good.  Best option ,IMO,is a weddle hv something. Price compare but I'd do the hv unless you can save serious bux qith the 094. The weddle would have better resell value.

[dsrace]

I would consider having transman build you a VW 094 side shifter from a waterboxer. They have a much larger/stronger reverse gear . Put a super diff in it with weddle guts with your current engine and driving style I think you'd be good.  Best option ,IMO,is a weddle hv something. Price compare but I'd do the hv unless you can save serious bux qith the 094. The weddle would have better resell value.

i do have access to a stock 094 side shift and dean has the weddle adaptor for the shift shaft. that would be rear engine where i pre fer mid engine it is doable for the right savings. now with the new custom fix er upper i only have 14' of caro space, per my design lol pretty sure i could shrink it down 6" at the most, still possible. so, transman and i discussed that and prices have gone up where fully building that would be $6. for another $2k the hv is far superior especially with the internal oil sprayer with external cooler option. i say that as i have puked oil out of the megasand many times. tried diff oils too and was about to go to the amsoil 250wt that jerry and glenn use.  so for another $2k it hands down the weddle hv series still. wouldnnt be a question if i hadnt just dropped $45k on this toyhauler ( aka custom fixer upper) and i have to make the repairs.......not losing the 2 year bet  

[dsrace]

https://ultimateoffroading.com/best-limited-slip-differential-for-off-road/

they say torsen lsd is the best but i can see that 180* off for the dunes.

Brian N and ds, this is from the link ds posted "The disadvantage of Torsen LSD is that when one wheel lifts off the contact surface and spins freely, there will be no torque transmitted to either wheel. Some torque is required to the worm gears to generate the required thrust force according to the designed bias ratio. The vehicle would require the torque on the other axle to move out of this situation until the affected axle gains some traction again."

i admit, i didnt read the whole article. when i read what they called the superior lsd and the ex0lanation of what it was coupled with the pic.......i knew it wouldnt work for offroading.  i agree, 4 spiders will work the best.

brianN..... anyone make a super diff with 4 spiders for your suby trans?

[dsrace]

of course could always finance an x3  for LS only.

[dsrace]

the x3 was aa joke btw....

so i called and spoke with sean at weddle last night. he took the time to answer my question and give some detailed answers.

so hv1 vs 2d.....rated for the same power levels, hv1 has a stronger case, stronger bearing ( main bearing) far stronger rev geaar. also has provisions for an oil pump with cooler. he said all rear engine rails should really have an oil pump as the oil is naturally forced back to the r&p which of course flings it back but never oils the gears properly. mid engines are naturally forced to the gear stack. many levels of that depending individual applications.     

2d......  has a stronger 1st 2nd gear, best bang for the buck,but basically rated at the same power.  he said the main bearing in the 2d is the weak link, depending on all the variables ( car, engine, driver etc etc) 3 to 5 seasons and they need a new main bearing and usually a new 1st 2nd gear. 

again, i am just repeating what was explained to myself. if someone has a differing a opinion, please express it and state why.  no one will be offended by it.

so then we discussed the hv24.......depending on variables again, rate for 500 ft lb tq at the crank. far superior to the 2d in many way, mid engine shifter assembly requires one to make there own mounting brakets and possibly a couple other small parts.  built in oil sprayer that runs off a lobe on the main shaft. provisions for an external oil cooler ( he said i would never need one with this trans even with the ecobbost v6 which he knew pretty good) hyd throw out bearing, much beefier gears and bearings through out. he said one cann expect a min of double the life as well out of the hv24 vs the 2d. 

i asked what the availabilites are on the hv1 a nd 2d right now...... he said 6 months out min. they have just about run out of parts. the companies they sourced various parts from are not open or something. they are manufacturing them in house or sourced local ( not 100% sure and didnt need to know) but they are just starting to get new parts flowing. the hv24 could be built and sold now.  the hv24 is $800 more than the hv1 so thats an easy decision between those 2. i would also need a new clutch disc as the hv 24 has a larger input shaft with a chevy spline.