Author Topic: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN  (Read 11111 times)

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Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2011, 02:02:25 AM »
    it just got me fired up cause it sounded like you were sayin mig isn't good enough for you guys.

I mig most everything because thats the kind of welder I have. I used to have to tig where I worked and I would buy a tig if I found a good deal on one in a minute. Either is fine. Some feel that Tigging 4130 is a plus. Thus they do it. Thats all for preferance. There is a LOT more than I will get into on that after the weld here. But for joining the metal either can be good. Tigs tend to be pretty AND you get more control of the fill material in quanity and the type of fill material.

But with proper methoeds and the right materails MIG is VERY strong.
 

I  have 3 years of woods ABUSE on the current buggy we beat on. and the only metal that broke was when we ripped the a-arm mounts out of the tube they were welded to. but the welds held, the tube is what gave.
we re-welded and that was two years ago.

Some guys will get more mad at you talking about their welds than if they caught you with their girlfriend. But I will say the above parts in color need to be taken into account/thoughts. It IS COMPLETLEY possible that the arm mounts ripped the tube due to simple sheer strength issues. Steel can only take so much.

 BUT it is also very POSSIBLE that the welds HAZ area make the tube fail just outside the welds.

I hear all the time guys who think they make stronger welds than the material as it often breaks just outside the weld. So the weld MUST be stronger!!

But thats often cause the welding had somehow damaged the tube or other metal in a heat related way. Thus weakening it.

You situation could have been either. Just be aware of that.   

Its not something to be ashamed of as much as learn from if it happens. So that you know to avoid it and not have welds that might fail and hurt you or someone.

Its also why some prefer TIG as you do tend to have more heat control too. Done right.
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Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2011, 06:25:48 AM »
I completely agree with the heat thing, too little  thumb down, too much  thumb down.  On my Hobart 140 I use #2 sometimes #3 heat setting and only about 20 in/min on wire.  Nice and slow.  I wish I could could adjust heat and wire on the fly.  Guess I'll have to move to tig one day?
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Offline fabr

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2011, 08:33:41 AM »
sorry in advance for the sound of frustration.  I don't do the tack tack tack.   skuWHEEZE that sombitch and let'er eat.        you need heat, not too much, not too little either, you guys know the drill, so do I.    it just got me fired up cause it sounded like you were sayin mig isn't good enough for you guys.

I'm building an under 600 pound with liquids, mini. and using a 220 lincoln 175 pro mig. with a 75 / 25 gas mix.    I  have 3 years of woods ABUSE on the current buggy we beat on. and the only metal that broke was when we ripped the a-arm mounts out of the tube they were welded to. but the welds held, the tube is what gave.
we re-welded and that was two years ago.

all I'm ranting about here is, fabr is someone I respect from a builders perspective. despite what crap I'll hear for this, I think he know's what he's talking about and how to do this stuff and do it well. when he said he he would never final weld with mig anything that his ass rides in, I got a little chapped is all. cause thats all I do here at the house is mig. all I've ever done at the house. so now I question myself and if I need to get a tig for home and all that blah blah...    dammit fabr, thanks    ???
;D ;D I didn't mean to say that MIG is necessarily bad. It isn't. Many times tho an inexperienced MIG welder will make what looks like a good weld with little or no penetration. I feel it happens a LOT more migging and it CAN be a bad thing. I still will ALWAYS prefer a tigged cage for one reason. When tigging you KNOW what that weld is since,IMO,you have absolute control over the weld puddle when tigging. Nothing wrong with mig if using the correct techniques.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2011, 08:43:54 AM »
sorry in advance for the sound of frustration.  I don't do the tack tack tack.   skuWHEEZE that sombitch and let'er eat.        you need heat, not too much, not too little either, you guys know the drill, so do I.    it just got me fired up cause it sounded like you were sayin mig isn't good enough for you guys.

I'm building an under 600 pound with liquids, mini. and using a 220 lincoln 175 pro mig. with a 75 / 25 gas mix.    I  have 3 years of woods ABUSE on the current buggy we beat on. and the only metal that broke was when we ripped the a-arm mounts out of the tube they were welded to. but the welds held, the tube is what gave.
we re-welded and that was two years ago.

all I'm ranting about here is, fabr is someone I respect from a builders perspective. despite what crap I'll hear for this, I think he know's what he's talking about and how to do this stuff and do it well. when he said he he would never final weld with mig anything that his ass rides in, I got a little chapped is all. cause thats all I do here at the house is mig. all I've ever done at the house. so now I question myself and if I need to get a tig for home and all that blah blah...    dammit fabr, thanks    ???
LOL!!! Yup,there's more than one person that doesn't agree with you but THANKS for the vote of confidence. ;D ;D
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

LiveWire

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2011, 12:07:57 PM »
I mig most everything because thats the kind of welder I have. I used to have to tig where I worked and I would buy a tig if I found a good deal on one in a minute. Either is fine. Some feel that Tigging 4130 is a plus. Thus they do it. Thats all for preferance. There is a LOT more than I will get into on that after the weld here. But for joining the metal either can be good. Tigs tend to be pretty AND you get more control of the fill material in quanity and the type of fill material.

But with proper methoeds and the right materails MIG is VERY strong.
 

Some guys will get more mad at you talking about their welds than if they caught you with their girlfriend. But I will say the above parts in color need to be taken into account/thoughts. It IS COMPLETLEY possible that the arm mounts ripped the tube due to simple sheer strength issues. Steel can only take so much.

 BUT it is also very POSSIBLE that the welds HAZ area make the tube fail just outside the welds.

I hear all the time guys who think they make stronger welds than the material as it often breaks just outside the weld. So the weld MUST be stronger!!

But thats often cause the welding had somehow damaged the tube or other metal in a heat related way. Thus weakening it.

You situation could have been either. Just be aware of that.   

Its not something to be ashamed of as much as learn from if it happens. So that you know to avoid it and not have welds that might fail and hurt you or someone.

Its also why some prefer TIG as you do tend to have more heat control too. Done right.

There is also the design of the tabs. I copied my A-arm mounts from the Pilot. That design requires over half the tube wall to be ripped out in order to rip the tab off, not just a little bit around a single tab. Even though a Pilot frame is only .065" ERW, the bolt will rip through the ~0.1" thick mount, not tear the tube. I make mine out of .120, and the tube out of .095" DOM. When someone hit a ditch and ripped the arms off one side, the mounts held. He bolted on new arms and was good to go.

Offline fabr

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2011, 12:31:50 PM »
+1
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: Pulse or tak tak welding. Link to MBN
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2011, 04:24:52 PM »
+1 too on that. I have seen some mounts that are bare minimum contact area on the tubes.

The more the merrier for contact area there. Heck yeah.
Your mission isn't to dive feet first into hell, but to make sure its crowded when you get there.