Ride frequency. Can you explain it? Deals with the springs.

[Nutz4sand]

OK. This began on MBN at this thread link below when a new Minibaja-er asked about spring rates for his ride.

We of course mentioned each vehicles spring rate would be radically different unless built exzactly alike and then a fellow named Damien pipes in with ride frequency and how its the most important number in dealing with spring selection. To me so far his arguements have been not real solid.

Heres the link:

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/suspension-wheels-tires/11650-what-spring-rates-you-guys-running.html

So can anyone here explain this to my thick skull so I can understand its importance or do I go on believing its Hocus-pocus??

Thanx! Bill

[Carlriddle]

I followed it too, never understood him.  He was a bad explainer .  But after reading some more, its a measurment of how quickly the suspension can cycle with only the spring in place, no shock absorbers, sway bars, only the coil spring.  A number close to one seems to be what most shoot for, about 1.3.  Also makeing the rear a little high makes it "catch up" so the car seems to go up and down at the same time and not feel like a wave rolling under you.  A lower ## should be a softer ride and higher ## stiffer, sports car?? 

Everything I read pertained to street cars and not sure you can make 20" of wheel travel cycle once every second.

Go ahead and believe in Hocus-pocus, Halloween is just around the corner.

[Nutz4sand]

I do understand its a measure of the suspension cycling with nothing on it but I DO NOT see the point of a number that cannot be measured twice the same. Nor its importance. The test is to (b-o-u-n-c-e) the car? Is a smaller guy gonna it the same as a LARGE guy? Even temps will affect tire reaction (not to mention thin tires on one car and thicker on another) and temsp can affect the bushings friction too. So again I say its crap as the way to test it does not take these into account AT ALL and they affect it greatly!

I also understand the THEORY of how the rear being a tad higher is SUPPOSED to make it catch up BUT I feel this cannot be used simply cause one place you may hit one bump and one place may be rolling whoops for miles. The rear could be trying to "catch up" but the front may be going up a whoop or down it depending on the cars length, the whoops size and spacing, and the speed. So to me the numbers BUNK.

Any number to do with a suspension cycling while its parked is going to do NO good on the million variables applied to a suspension while its moving.

Hocus-pokus and maybe a little alakaZAM??

[Carlriddle]

Agreed, dont think its as usable in the real world of off road.  Lots of "book stuff" is questioned in off road.  Ask most how they know, its because they learned hard way.  That be why I will used air shocks on my next build.

[Nutz4sand]

My plans include Goodyear and firestone "air springs" front and rear. Then I can have the shocks separate completely (simple for now but bypasses oneday?) and if the springs are not right they can be dialed in with air pressure (for amount of lift) and remote reservoirs (to add or take away firmness). Even altered "on the ride" (while moving) potentially. 

[BDKW1]

My plans include Goodyear and firestone "air springs" front and rear. Then I can have the shocks separate completely (simple for now but bypasses oneday?) and if the springs are not right they can be dialed in with air pressure (for amount of lift) and remote reservoirs (to add or take away firmness). Even altered "on the ride" (while moving) potentially.

Airbags? never work.........
 

 
Ok, maybe they will LOL. I ended up running some antifreeze in them to make them a little more progressive. Even with a 2.2-1 motion ratio on the back of the truck, I was only running about 30PSI in the bags. I still have them on a shelf in the garage  . Also, make sure you have a valve on them to preventt cross flow. The lean made for a pretty interesting test drive.........

[Nutz4sand]

lol I do know about the cross lean caused by airshocks tied together and the same for air bags.

I am actually looking at ways to make the airbags on the outside get more pressure while in a turn.

At the very least have electronic valves that seal the outside springs off so they have to deal with the air inside them only and not the air in the bags and the reservoirs. My own ideas/design. But I am gonna try it. 

 

[fabr]

Wouldn't an airline for each do the trick?

[Nutz4sand]

I think each air spring should have its own control pod much less own line! :] 

Load the outside in the corner to prevent roll. Even drop the inside pressure.

Looking at pumps to supply this and to have pumps on the suspension itself so bumps and whoops add to the air supply. As you loose it if you MUST dump (as I feel it will dump some) it you got a replenisment ready.

[Islander]

Sounds a lot like the air ride in the back of the International, only hopefully MUCH faster 

[fabr]

The trick will be speed as mentioned. I'm of the opinion it will work but a pump of sufficient capacity/speed will be non existant in a small package. You find/build a pump and it's a piece of cake theoretically.

[fabr]

What we really need are electronic shocks like some cars have.

[chrishallett83]

Like this?



Or like this?

[fabr]

Yup.