bumper to gooseneck

[dsrace]

They are like a cheap band-aid. They fail to perform when you need them to the most.  I did my time with them and they were,IMO,better than nothing but fall far,far short of a GN/FW.

i like the designjconcept but have always wondered how responsive they were in side winds. no matter the balance of a trailer, side winds can cause sway.  of course this is where the GN/FW shine and why i found this GN conversion.  i remember seeing something simalar 12 years ago but cannot remember the name. price is def a very proud price lol but same price as the hensley and pro pride hitch's. the GN version of my trailer was $3k more and an additional 2k lbs. if i went that rt i would save the weight lol it would also be removable and useable on other trailers.

[fabr]

They are like a cheap band-aid. They fail to perform when you need them to the most.  I did my time with them and they were,IMO,better than nothing but fall far,far short of a GN/FW.

i like the designjconcept but have always wondered how responsive they were in side winds. no matter the balance of a trailer, side winds can cause sway.  of course this is where the GN/FW shine and why i found this GN conversion.  i remember seeing something simalar 12 years ago but cannot remember the name. price is def a very proud price lol but same price as the hensley and pro pride hitch's. the GN version of my trailer was $3k more and an additional 2k lbs. if i went that rt i would save the weight lol it would also be removable and useable on other trailers.

And it would make your trailer more able to sell readily. You know ,in 2 years................

[fabr]

The question is why not fab your own and save a bunch of $$$$. I know you can do it and likely better judging from some of the weld quality I think I saw in the vids.

[dsrace]

They are like a cheap band-aid. They fail to perform when you need them to the most.  I did my time with them and they were,IMO,better than nothing but fall far,far short of a GN/FW.

i like the designjconcept but have always wondered how responsive they were in side winds. no matter the balance of a trailer, side winds can cause sway.  of course this is where the GN/FW shine and why i found this GN conversion.  i remember seeing something simalar 12 years ago but cannot remember the name. price is def a very proud price lol but same price as the hensley and pro pride hitch's. the GN version of my trailer was $3k more and an additional 2k lbs. if i went that rt i would save the weight lol it would also be removable and useable on other trailers.

And it would make your trailer more able to sell readily. You know ,in 2 years................

somehow i knew that was coming    this is why this one HAS to make 3 years 

[dsrace]

The question is why not fab your own and save a bunch of $$$$. I know you can do it and likely better judging from some of the weld quality I think I saw in the vids.

i could do it for sure. the reason i am looking at that companies is for liability reasons.  i do not for see an issue but one just never knows and hard saying which way that would swing.  if i were to do it i think i would permently weld it on and cut the a frame for the extra strength. i like the removable idea for resale. there are several bumper hitch floor plans that dont exist in a fiver that i pre fer also.

[fabr]

The question is why not fab your own and save a bunch of $$$$. I know you can do it and likely better judging from some of the weld quality I think I saw in the vids.

i could do it for sure. the reason i am looking at that companies is for liability reasons.  i do not for see an issue but one just never knows and hard saying which way that would swing.  if i were to do it i think i would permently weld it on and cut the a frame for the extra strength. i like the removable idea for resale. there are several bumper hitch floor plans that dont exist in a fiver that i pre fer also.

From a liability standpoint there would be no difference between building the conversion and cutting/modifying the trailer. Being as you wil possibly want to sell it I'd do the conversion and retain resale value.

[dsrace]

i agree but i was referring to building my own vs buying one.

[fabr]

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

[dsrace]

so i have now put a few miles on the new custome fixer upper toyhauler from dunesport.

we used it as a camper for short trip to mt rushmore, custer park and the bad lands a week ago. 8 hr drive each way ( when one doesnt follow google or garmin  ) plus 400 miles of driving the sites in 3 days time.  never cross southern half of SD on hwy 47......4-6% grades that are no fun in 35 to 40 mph gusting winds.

so fabr......you and i were discussing a subject briefly at the dunes last trip i was there.    i had mentioned that i 90% believed the shape of the front end of my toyhauler would cut wind better then a square brick.   you stated that you purchased a trailer with a similar front end and had thought the same until you towed it a number of miles. after that you felt that the wind actually apllied enough of a down force that you felt drag.


well, after 18 hrs of towing mine, 10 hrs fighting 35 to 40 mph gusting wind on complete shit 2 lane back roads that campers have no buisness on, i can say i 100% agree with you. now this was only felt in a dead head wind. with a diagnol or dead side wind i couldnt feel the drag in fact , even at 12'6" tall as my fifthwheel was this still towed easier in side winds. the fiver towed best in head or tail winds. side winds really drug that on down. prob the 34' of side wall vs 26' on this one.   a diagonal side wind/cross wind didnt effect it that i could notice but a dead on head wind and it took another 10 psi boost (100hp) to maintain ground speed. also made it a litle more squirrly.

i will attach a pic or two for others to view that dont remember this or have not seen it.  the pics are of the camper at the SD campground behind my f350 dualy.

so i posted this on the GN conversion as i wonder if it would break the wind and reduce this effect plus make it tow better all things considered. mabey a wind on the top of the GN ??  not sure but that added drag really does get old. so does fixing all the issues with it too.

thoughts??

[fabr]

so i have now put a few miles on the new custome fixer upper toyhauler from dunesport.

we used it as a camper for short trip to mt rushmore, custer park and the bad lands a week ago. 8 hr drive each way ( when one doesnt follow google or garmin  ) plus 400 miles of driving the sites in 3 days time.  never cross southern half of SD on hwy 47......4-6% grades that are no fun in 35 to 40 mph gusting winds.

so fabr......you and i were discussing a subject briefly at the dunes last trip i was there.    i had mentioned that i 90% believed the shape of the front end of my toyhauler would cut wind better then a square brick.   you stated that you purchased a trailer with a similar front end and had thought the same until you towed it a number of miles. after that you felt that the wind actually apllied enough of a down force that you felt drag. I knew you were skeptical but now you KNOW.


well, after 18 hrs of towing mine, 10 hrs fighting 35 to 40 mph gusting wind on complete shit 2 lane back roads that campers have no buisness on, i can say i 100% agree with you. now this was only felt in a dead head wind. with a diagnol or dead side wind i couldnt feel the dragHead on and diagonal sucked for me. in fact , even at 12'6" tall as my fifthwheel was this still towed easier in side winds. the fiver towed best in head or tail winds. side winds really drug that on down. prob the 34' of side wall vs 26' on this one.   a diagonal side wind/cross wind didnt effect it that i could notice but a dead on head wind and it took another 10 psi boost (100hp) to maintain ground speed. also made it a litle more squirrly. Bottom line to me is you can't give me a bumper pull larger trailer.

i will attach a pic or two for others to view that dont remember this or have not seen it.  the pics are of the camper at the SD campground behind my f350 dualy.

so i posted this on the GN conversion as i wonder if it would break the wind and reduce this effect plus make it tow better all things considered. mabey a wind on the top of the GN ??  not sure but that added drag really does get old. so does fixing all the issues with it too.

thoughts??

If you are considering converting it to a fifth wheel you need to seriously look at the weight bias. Bumper pulls and fivers are balanced different to get a good ride. Fivers need more weight fore of the axles compared to a bumper pull. It's all about tongue weight. Rule of thumb is 10 percent on hitch for bumper and 15-20 percent for fivers. That is weighed fully loaded. .

[fabr]

Just from the pics I think your axles are too far forward to convert it to a fiver. Weighing loaded is needed without hooked to truck on scales that will weigh tongue and axles separate like many truck scales do so you can KNOW the weight bias as it is. That will give you a good frame of reference for a fiver conversion.

[fabr]

Fortunately it does look like you could fairly easily relocate the axles if needed though.

[dsrace]

Fortunately it does look like you could fairly easily relocate the axles if needed though.

 it wasn't that i didnt believe your personal experiance with your trailer shaped like mine, it just looked like it would cut wind. now at the same time i did see what you were talking about but couldnt tell if the topper would have an effect on that or what could. it did/does look like it would cut wind, but, in reality it creates drag, imo, in the form of down force. it is interesting that its predomently indirect head winds. this is why i say i 100% agree now as i watched the boost gauge and egts as the road curved and the direction of the wind changed.   when we turned dead into a head wind you could feel the drag like someone dropped an anchor. so a v nose is the best option or is that going to be effected more in a side wind? i can see why airstreams twinky shape works so well.

so if one believes dune sport ......... 7200 lbs/1200lb empty. that's 16.6% tw empty. i do know that a fiver/GN works best at 15 to 20% pin weight and my fiver toyhauler was claimed to have 25% empty. in a toyhauler situation, you cannot pull the toy all the way in so i can kind of see that line of thinking.

so i have not weighed loaded and detached from the truck. not even sure if the local truck stop would let me do this. i have not asked either. i know that in stock form, loaded for the dunes, there is not enough tw now! tongue light on the first trip and horribly tongue light as it tossed a dually around. imagine if i had been driving a srw in those crazy high gusting winds and tongue light!! 

i added a 50lb steel tool box to the front and can add another 50 lbs too it. the spare tires are still mounted on the  far rear. we may disagee what they weigh and no i have not weighed them but i think the 235-80x16 14 ply tires on steel rims weight in 65 plus lbs each. the steel H square tube frame the tire winches are bolted too, prob another 50 lbs with winches. so i have room up front behind the hitch to move those wheels to right behind the a frame hitch.  i'm calling that 200 lbs respectivly. would loose 200 off the rear and add it to the front. would that be a 300 lbs increase in tw?? dont know but i bet its close. between that and the tool box it has to be 300 to 350lbs additional tw. that untoo itself should solve the loaded tongue light issue as a bumper hitch.

so at 1500 lbs tw , empty, thats only 21%. that would mean back the rail as a GN imo, w/o moving axles. would not be hard to move the front axle to the rear either.  the ouo traction bars i added 95% eliminated suction from rigs and large suv's. reall improved sway control in the side winds as well. now i have not towed to the dunes and back loaded with them installed.

the only way to know for sure is to find a scale i can detach and weigh at. i already know that i'm tongue light, dune loaded , in stock form.

[dsrace]

So I thought I would re visit this idea once more as this custom fixer upper tows like shit when loaded with the rail. So tongue light it wags my dually's back end.  With the sand rail pulled in that is. It cN be winches in backwards but its a pain and defeats another reason for the custom build.

So I like the bolt on gn idea especially as it adds 350 lbs, initially. I decided to reach out to the company to ask some specifics. Per our conversation, he stated it does add 350 lbs tongue weight but that the 6' extension reduces the load on the rear of the truck up to 30 % depending on trailer build.  All sounds good and I would still need to transfer the spare tires to the nose.

I noticed their site states, tested by an independent company to 10,000 lbs. I asked if that is a 10k lb pin weight rating or gross trailer weight...... they responded. Ia email that 10k lb rating is pin weight.  No other information either so I sent another email asking about what the gross trailer weight is.  They responded stating that it is their theory that if one has well maintained brakes that the gtw will remain on the trailer axles. I will post pics of their responses. I got a chuckle out it for sure lol

Their answers don't instill confidence so I think I'll scratch them off the list of ideas vs ba king it in.

[fabr]

His answer was amusing. 

Is there a grain scale nearby that weighs in 3 sections? If so ,if it were me I'd arrange a time when convenient with the scale people  to weigh the trailer with the rear of the frame supported with jackstands on one pad and front of the tongue supported on the other . Then calculate how far back the axles would need moved to get you 10 percent on the tongue. I;m betting it would maybe only need a few inches. Can the wheel wells/fender be modded to look right . You are pretty handy after all.