DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
The Machine Shop => Everything Fabrication => Topic started by: fabr on April 07, 2014, 10:04:31 PM
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I've cut literally thousands of pieces of float and plate glass but never laminated safety glass like in a car windshield. I can ,no doubt,score and break the glass on both sides but what is the trick to cutting the plastic between the panes? Help! ;D
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Heat it slightly and cut with a razor blade. A bit more work to cut a curved windshield.
Youtube has lots of videos on how to do it.
DW
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denatured alcohol is what we use and a razor blade. after cut on both side squirt a healthy amount of alcohol down the crack but bend the glass down slightly to let it down to the celluloid and wait a few seconds while a small amount of tension is still on it. it will almost disolve in front of you.
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I've watched a lot of those. I have also tried it on flat laminated. Works ,OK. On curved ,I'll just say it must take a lot of practice and experience with a stack of windshields to eff up first. LOL!!!!. It is an art for sure. Most say to cut the glass first and then build the frame to make things more forgiving. Hell with that. That would be fine for a street rod or custom but I'll likely break one and need an exact copy for replacement later.
I read a couple of places that suggest using a wet cut tile saw. One of the hand held ones with a continuous rim diamond blade. Any thoughts? I'm probably gonna give it a try since that would allow almost exact duplicates.
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denatured alcohol is what we use and a razor blade. after cut on both side squirt a healthy amount of alcohol down the crack but bend the glass down slightly to let it down to the celluloid and wait a few seconds while a small amount of tension is still on it. it will almost disolve in front of you.
How do you dress the edges of the glass after?Flap wheel,wet sand,?????? I like the wet saw thing from what I watched but who knows? The "clean" edge is what I like .What are your thoughts on that method?
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I've seen belt sander used to clean up bad spots. Wet sand for the polished look. The diamond sanding pads would work great and last forever. And good continuous rim diamond bade will wet cut it like butter. Would deff use water to cut glass, air powered grinder with a water hose if you dont want to buy one of the saws will work.
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Harbor Freight has the perfect tool, oh yea never mind.
LMAO
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I've seen belt sander used to clean up bad spots. Wet sand for the polished look. The diamond sanding pads would work great and last forever. And good continuous rim diamond bade will wet cut it like butter. Would deff use water to cut glass, air powered grinder with a water hose if you dont want to buy one of the saws will work.
I've read that antifreeze makes the best coolant/lube for wet cutting glass also.
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Harbor Freight has the perfect tool, oh yea never mind.
LMAO
nono nono rofl rofl rofl
:e
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i use an up right belt sander that is as tall as myself but a hand held one will work too. wet the sand paper belt with silicone spray lube or wd 40 but we use a grinding lube spray. the upright belt sander is 2000 grit that we have a water line to so it is a wet sander. when you score each side of the glass do not bend the glass anymore that absolutely necessary to run the cut and then when you squirt the alcohol down the crack wait 20 seconds and light it. pull straight back on the glass to enlarge the crack and squirt alcohol again and wait 30 secs
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Waterjet.
There is a place down the street from My work that has a 4 axis water jet and they do a lot of hotrod windshields. Main trick is to start off the material, piercing usually tries to separate the pieces.
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Ya but at what cost? I have a fair amount of WJ work done each month for things not buggy related but they don't have but a 2 1/2 axis machine. I really like WJ but it's not cheap,at least not here.
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that would be easier but for with what you have for tools on hand what i said will work well! been doing it for 20 years so i do know what i'm talking about lol
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OK,you convinced me with flattery. I'll try the tried and true method first. The WS I'm using doesn't have much curvature and I'll only need to cut approx 2" from each end/side is only 120 bux or so new .I won't be out much if I prove to be an incompetent oaf.
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I know you can do it ;) ;D
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Well,at least I'll keep at it till I exhaust the world supply of windshields to screw up. My motto is never give up or in. Actually fasts sig line applies very well to this topic.
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Any pics? Any how not to do its?
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Haven't tried any yet. Just getting my ducks in a row for later.
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bring one to the dunes with an oil cutter an alcohol and we'll give it a try.....if it's windy we'll just fly it like a kite lol lol
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was kind of thinking you have a supply of broken WS's sooooooo.......................................
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was kind of thinking you have a supply of broken WS's sooooooo.......................................
ya I can practice any time and do daily just not how you think lol lol it's not hard just comes down to the quality of the glass as in made in china or us or Canada or mexico. the cheap ching chang chongers have impurities that will mess up the cut from the cutter in a bad way lol the other are better and thicker ( not by much) but a steady hand and a close eye with a pair of plate pliers should work fine then a hand held belt sander with like 2k grit or larger with some wd 40 should smooth out the corners just fine.
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Sounds like an ice cream/shop class night is in order......................
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Sounds like an ice cream/shop class night is in order......................
ice cream and it's all good rofl rofl
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Well,I now know why so many sand cars use the S-10 windshield. Only costs 57 bux at Safe-lite. 57 friggin bux. 8) 8) I can break a few and not really give a rats ass. 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm also going to try the sawing method. It seems like the way to go. Time will tell. I'll be trying this saw. http://www.dewalt.com/tools/tile-saws-handheld-tile-saw-dwc860w.aspx If it works as I've read it will cutting laminated with a diamond blade.........................................well,you know what IF means. ;D ;D It'll be mid week before saw is here but am anxious to give this a shot since I need WS before I can proceed with body.
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sgc glass is the cheapest you can get, in every way possible! but for what you are doing prob not a bad idea. prob want to make 2 so you have a back up since it is as thin as possible. i have never seen anyone use a saw to cut it with so some pics would be nice. i have seen hole saws used ( hole saw bits for glass) but that was on plate glass and you had to keep the water on it for lube and heat. have you looked into a vw bug windshield?
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have you looked into a vw bug windshield?
Old ones are small and flat. New ones are giant and very curved.
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not flat but flatter
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Actually I've looked at dozens and dozens of windshields the last few weeks. Everything I could find on the car lots,new and used. I keep coming back to the s-10 '97era. Cut down I think it will be what I'm after. ALL windshields are too wide for my car. After removing several inches from each side and about 4 inches of height it appears to me like it will flow into the body well. It will still have curvature but not as bulbous. We'll see. Going to pick up a couple to try out tomorrow and saw will be here Wed-Thurs. Kind of anxious to try this out.
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From My recent experience pre-running in a buggy with a windshield, they suck off-road. Great for dune cars but not for anything that runs in real dusty areas. We had real issues in the silt bed where the dust would just be doing laps behind the windshield. The dust would not clear and you had zero visibility. We ended up pulling the glass out as we were wearing helmets anyways. Much better with no windshield and the motor ran about 15* cooler.
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All good points. My reason for a WS is not for offroad use.WS will be readily removable.
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Update:This is a bit difficult and has a learning curve about 3 miles long and about a 50% grade to boot!!! eyes First,I've cut thousands of pieces of glass in the last 40 years or so. Cut curves,scroll lines even circles from the center of a glass pane. Never had any problems soooooooooooooooooooooooowhat could be so hard? Well ,plenty. rofl rofl First off , the tile saw method MIGHT work but absolutely is a fail with the blade that comes with it. Too coarse and too sparcely placed diamond grit. Killed a WS immediately. I have an actual GLASS TILE blade coming and will give it a try. I believe it will be a very smooth ,no chip cut. Might actually work after first trimming off bulk of excess WS first.
For now though since I have cut so much glass I thought I'd give it a try "old school". I almost had the second try be a success. One score line did not run true. SHIT. thumb down ;D ;D I have never had any reason to use anything other than a standard glass cutter. The score that did not run true I believe,was due to a crappy score. Soooo,off to Tulsa I go to pick up a high quality glass cutter. This thing is SWEET!!!!!!!!!! Oil filled,carbide wheel,scores smooth as a babies asssssssss!!!!!!!. Can't wait till tomorrow to try WS #3.
I've learned a LOT on these first 2 attempts,will post info soon as I have(hopefully)success.
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rofl rofl rofl rofl yes it is and in the 22 years i have now been doing it it comes easy lol windshields are more difficult to cut down especially the cheap ass chinese ones like safelite glass sells, also fyg brand and pgw ( formerly ppg before they sold out to chickety china) and csg plus several other names.. the impurities in the glass make it much more difficult so don't feel bad. a cheap cutter does add to the difficulty. i have only used a cabide oiled for years and the only way to go. keeping the glass wet where that saw touch's is needed as well. i have custom cut many flat windows for restorations and many for shop tops. after 22 years you can still wind up breaking one from a warp in the glass though. not sure if you do or don't but once you do get a good cut with the laminated glass use denatured alcohol and pour into the cut, ight it to warm up the so called vinyl in the middle of the glass and pull straight out , while it is still lit on fire, then lean it over and cut the vinyl. it's actually a celluloid but close enough. 3 in 1 tool oil like for air tools or 5wt trans fluid works well too in the cutter.
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Flat laminated is easy peasy. Due to the fact that curved, laminated windshields are made from 2 identical pieces, the internal stresses are a force to be reckoned with . That is the issue. Learning what and where to cut to relieve those internal stresses is the trick. Antifreeze and a host of other things,as you said, can be used for "oil". The PVB plastic between the panes is easily taken care of using a couple of different techniques such as the alky or even using a propane torch. I like the alky method. Pretty amazing how little temperature is needed to melt/soften the stuff to where it will separate.
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if you run your hand over the glass like you would on a body panel to see if there are any high spots you can usually feel the dips which is what i call warped puckers in that chinese glass. those warped spots are were you really run into trouble cutting the glass. even with a good cutter. you know that you score the glass with is to guide the crack you are going to run across it but when you introduce a pucker or low spot in that line it can run off in different directions fast lol i know everyone thinks glass is smooth and flat but it really depends on the grade and it is far more porous than a guy thinks, which is why rain x works so well.
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True! The float glass I normally sell has changed dramatically in the last 4 years. I used to be able to score an 1/8" on an edge and snap it off in one piece 36" or more long. Now ,it just comes in small segments. It's not just the dips,it's a definite different type of glass now days. Windshields ,you can see the deformities from inconsistent glass and the additional stresses caused by the laminating process. Flat lam and float are easy to cut ,anyone can do it. Curved windshields on the other hand....................................well,I'm betting only 1 out of a thousand good glass guys might be able to pull it off.
;) I just might find out I'm not the one either by the time this is done. ??? rofl
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ya i remember when they offered grade a and b glass lol the quality has degraded from over sea's out sourcing for sure. windshields on the other hand are mostly made in china! they don't cool them long enough as well as other problems and walah! lol
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OK,today was interesting. I have 2 cut down windshields. 2 out of 6 attempts. The first 2 were definitely learning curve. 3rd try was success. 4th was an absolute failure due to the stuff DS described .Number 5 was as easy as any quality glass should be, easy as cutting regular window glass.The qulaity of it could actually be felt when cutting.Number 6 broke on first alky application almost 1/2 way across. I saw the dip in the glass upper corner and sure enough it was junk. BIG internal stress for sure.
What have I learned? Inspect each and every windshield before leaving warehouse. Reject any with any irregularities just as DS said by running the hand over it just like doing body work. Look through it to detect any optical irregularities. Reject that also.
Pic is of 3 on 6 being used as template.
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well glad you got two done anyway!! everyone always thinks that glass is glass but it's not. this also hold true as to how good a hit it can take from a rock or pebble before breaking. we don't sell the cheap crap at work unless it is specified by the customer as to that is what they want. the real cheap crap has distortions that make me woosy just pulling around the building and if you can feel them then they are bad! just like if you can hear pinging in an engine it's bad lol lol what makes it even worse is that all the natural disasters and storms across the nation for the last 5 years especially the hail have depleted our warehouses and there is a flood of this Chinese glass into the usa, more than normal. they are making it too fast and the lack of quality is worse. sad part is gm has gone to this cheap stuff on the assembly lines as well as honda and other imports. last i knew ford and chrysler were still better quality. the last hail storm that came through these parts took out about 50,000 pieces of glass, 4 years ago the big tornado's that ripped up joplin Missouri took out a major hub warehouse and i mean damn large warehouse!!!!! can you imagine all that glass flying through the wind ?! giant knives for who knows how many miles! the safelite glass is also made in china and soooooo poor quality the majority of the time that many rear view mirrors just fall off and take a chunk of glass with them the size of a 50 cent piece or slightly larger. safelite normally won't warranty this problem and just claim people hit the mirror or hung something from it. the chinese glass is the only glass i have ever seen do this. that is real poor quality glass when that happen's . there's a lot more too it as well but i won't bore anyone with that. lol
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well glad you got two done anyway!! everyone always thinks that glass is glass but it's not. this also hold true as to how good a hit it can take from a rock or pebble before breaking. we don't sell the cheap crap at work unless it is specified by the customer as to that is what they want. the real cheap crap has distortions that make me woosy just pulling around the building and if you can feel them then they are bad! just like if you can hear pinging in an engine it's bad lol lol what makes it even worse is that all the natural disasters and storms across the nation for the last 5 years especially the hail have depleted our warehouses and there is a flood of this Chinese glass into the usa, more than normal. they are making it too fast and the lack of quality is worse. sad part is gm has gone to this cheap stuff on the assembly lines as well as honda and other imports. last i knew ford and chrysler were still better quality. the last hail storm that came through these parts took out about 50,000 pieces of glass, 4 years ago the big tornado's that ripped up joplin Missouri took out a major hub warehouse and i mean damn large warehouse!!!!! can you imagine all that glass flying through the wind ?! giant knives for who knows how many miles! the safelite glass is also made in china and soooooo poor quality the majority of the time that many rear view mirrors just fall off and take a chunk of glass with them the size of a 50 cent piece or slightly larger. safelite normally won't warranty this problem and just claim people hit the mirror or hung something from it. the chinese glass is the only glass i have ever seen do this. that is real poor quality glass when that happen's . there's a lot more too it as well but i won't bore anyone with that. lol
Give you one guess where these glass came from. rofl rofl rofl rofl Ya, I'll not accept any more that are distorted in any way from them. Soooo,who makes a quality s-10 WS? The ONE good Safelite one cut like a dream. I'd be willing to pay double if there was a quality one available. I'll keep these as backups so I'll never break a WS. You know how it is,have a spare never need it but be without a spare and that will be the ONE thing you need first ride out.
I'm pretty confident that if the WS were of better quality I could get at least 1 good one from every 2. I will say that you know with the first cut whether it is likely to be a success or not.
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well it's sad to say but none are actually made in the usa anymore like they claim well maybe carlite but i would have to verify that one agian. pilkington is still a good brand but they are making more in mexico now and the quality has dropped a bit lately to compete with the other companies out sourcing to china pilk has a plant in canada as well and if you look at the tag on the glass it should say but not always. pilk bought lof and libby owens out years ago so it is all those combined those were all oem names for gm models for years but now that chevy has switched side to china they are using the chinese glass for manufacturing so it's now oem, soooo sad. guardian glass is still made in the usa i believe and still very good glass but harder to find since they only want to sell to the car manufacturers. regardless you have to run you hands and eyes over it all to be sure cause they are producing it as fast as they can to keep up with the demand .
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Well,at 58 bux each from Safe-lite I can kill a few getting the 3 I want. One for the car and 2 spares on the shelf for the occasional tree limb encounter. LOL!!!! Still a lot cheaper than having someone else do it and I now have yet another skill/art feather in my hat.
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I am definitely going to try the quality glass tile diamond blade I have coming (damn late fedex)on the "practice" windshields I now have. I think it may well work fine.
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Update:
1 A quality glass cutting diamond blade is light years ahead of a diamond tile blade. Cuts to a polished ,finished edge.
2 It does not work though. Too many internal stresses in the WS to do any full length cuts. It does work very well for lots of short cuts rough, rounded corner trimming .
3 A quality ,oiled glass cutter is the answer. And a lot of previous experience is invaluable.If I had not the previous years and years of just playing with glass doing all sorts of silly shape cutting I do not believe I could have pulled this off.
Edge dressing with a belt sander is pretty fool proof. I just lubed the glass with a strong soap and water solution in a spray bottle.Hell,even with 80 grit silicon carbide paper you can pretty much just hog off material. It'll chip the crap out of it but not crack the windshield. Of course I took a much more conservative approach on the 3 good WS I ended up with using a 180 belt. Very slow work dressing all edges perfect to remove any small stress risers that is just a crack waiting to happen.It took about 3 hours work. I have a diamond belt coming to do the last 2 WS. Should speed up the work tremendously.
More later........................
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ok so it just so happened that today at work i had an odd request to cut the end of a windshield off so the customer could frame the 10 years worth of park stickers he had on his windshield. so i had my wife hold my phone and record a video of it just for you lol but since i have a dumb phone i couldn't get it off so i sent it to carls smart phone ;D we'll see if he can take all 4 short vids and put them into a complete vid and post it for me.
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The ends are easy. Across the width is another story.
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maybe next movie star? Hope they're in right order. rofl rofl
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it was the end of the windshield but i did cut it through the bend of the glass on the end which isn't as easy as flat glass. i was installing a new one in that colorado truck so i thought i would cut the used one down. the used one was a quality piece of glass however not a cheap ass chinese one like safelite glass sells and it does make a diff!!
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carl the first and last are the same vid and you are missing the first one i sent lol oh well
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it was the end of the windshield but i did cut it through the bend of the glass on the end which isn't as easy as flat glass. i was installing a new one in that colorado truck so i thought i would cut the used one down. the used one was a quality piece of glass however not a cheap ass chinese one like safelite glass sells and it does make a diff!!
That is FACT. The S-10 ones I used were from a safelite distributor. I asked them if I could select which ones I took the second time down. They just laughed,said of course,then showed me the pallet loaded with rejects to be discarded. They told be installers reject about 10% (50-60 a week)of all windshields they sell. Rejects are just discarded.Definitely from China or at least from some chicken scratch alphabet country................... thumb down
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I have learned also that some of the Chinese windshields are just not able to be cut down due to all the internal stresses in the glass which is due to being shitty made.
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That is FACT. The S-10 ones I used were from a safelite distributor. I asked them if I could select which ones I took the second time down. They just laughed,said of course,then showed me the pallet loaded with rejects to be discarded. They told be installers reject about 10% (50-60 a week)of all windshields they sell. Rejects are just discarded.Definitely from China or at least from some chicken scratch alphabet country................... thumb down
i knew it was a high percentage but didn't know it was that high! knowing that company and what is acceptable you have to stop and think how many shit ones they actually install! i have seen many