DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => "AP" General Discusion => Topic started by: dsrace on December 10, 2017, 09:56:19 AM
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i know not everyone does this but some do......here are 2 excel files to calculate e85/pump gas mix and one for mixing higher octane fuels with pump gas to reach a slightly higher octane. i cannot seem to include an xls file so here are some links. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=Fuel+Blend+Calcs.xls&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJotG69P_XAhVD0YMKHRRBAoMQBQgkKAA&biw=1352&bih=649
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i cannot seem to include an xls file so here are some links.
Try it now.....
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thanks yummi
they open and work in word excel for me.
(https://s33.postimg.org/61h5cd6xn/E85_Stoich.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/61h5cd6xn/)
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http://www.hotrod.com/articles/wideband-oxygen-sensor/
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An issue with your calculator is that it doesn't account for the water content that will surely be in the pump E85.The other issue is that all the alky testers are pretty much a guesstimate at best.I wouldn't tune to the ragged edge by using that calculator but it does give you an idea of where you want to be with various blends.
On another note,tuning out knock using factory or other knock sensors is a bit of a problem also when applying mods to an engine. All of a sudden the sensors go dumb so far as detecting knock since most of the harmonics frequencies have changed and the ecm can't distinguish between knock and maybe a forged piston slap for example. Sort of like having a radio out of tune for the station you want to hear. I wouldn't put 100% faith in it. The old school ways of plug reading should be used as well.
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correct....one must test each load of pump e85 with a manual tester or a flex sensor. enemy has done both and they have come out the same so the our flex sensors are atleast very close. i have read several posts of guys using calculators similar to this one as they have taken to adding pump e85 to pump gas to raise the octane rating for street racing/everyday driving as opposed to high dollar race fuels.
now ...that is where it gets confusing to me. i would think this practice would complicate things if your ecu or tuning software doesn't allow for a change... stoich afr value from 14.7 to 9.8 etc etc. TS does....close to center , right side in pic
(https://s33.postimg.org/wg6fosha3/Capture_01_afr.png) (https://postimg.org/image/wg6fosha3/)
this would become confusing to having to read a diff afr every time that content changed. i did see that innovate and a couple other companies make afr gauge sets for ethy vs gas. i mixed 100 octane with non ethy 87 when i had the turbo on the busa. i see in that calc i didn't need to mix it 50/50% as i did to achieve 93 octane or higher. couldn't mixed it 25% and would've been 94 octane based on calc and assuming pump sign was accurate.
i'll have to re watch that spark knock vid as i thought they were using the spikes in the coil packs ( cop coils) to do the majority of that.
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i believe carl is going to turbo his zx12r. now he wants to run e85 and only has the bazzaz to tune with. where i do like the bazzaz it's got limitations. so this calculator may help him but it's going to be interesting to see how he figures this part out. each load of e85 will have to be tested, i know he installing larger inj's 40% i think and he'll have to increase fuel globally 30% maybe 28% to start tuning but the bazzaz's auto tune feature reads the afr's through the bosch 02 sensor that comes with it. i say test each load of fuel as it varies soooooo much from place to place let alone state to state. here there are two places that are consistent as the state vehicles fill up there and they test the fuel. haven't purchased any that was lower than 81% yet but the place fast told doug to buy at by his house on dougs way down last time was only like 60% so you have to change that value or adjust fueling as more ehthy needs more fuel and lower ethy requires less fuel. the last day there i was down to 1/2 tank and all 24 gal in cans i brought were empty so i got 2 gals from doug from fast's neck of the woods. 2 gals maybe 2.5 mixed in my tank dropped me from 83% to 77% right now! i have a flex sensor so as soon as i turn the key on and pumps sends it through i get a readout.
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You need to get used to lambda to simplify tuning various and ever changing fuels,IMO. That's where I'm at now.Yes,you need to determine what you want for stoich for the various blends but it makes comparing one to the other much simpler.
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You need to get used to lambda to simplify tuning various and ever changing fuels,IMO. That's where I'm at now.Yes,you need to determine what you want for stoich for the various blends but it makes comparing one to the other much simpler.
agree but still have to know the content of the fuel to tune by lambda. this is where inconsistent e85 becomes tricky vs race fuel or pump gas.
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If you guys would buy anhydrous(dry) E98 from a distiller (like I did) you have consistent fuel. Blend your own with pump ,no alky 91.Honestly,I would never,ever,no way,no how,absolutely not, consider using pump E85 with a valuable (pricey) well tuned engine. Just not worth it,IMO. The total cost is barely twice the cost of unknown quality pump alky.
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LMAO so then the cost of normal 87 octane no ethy if only double the cost of pump e85 ;) still far cheaper then 110 octane
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the nice thing about this system is once a solid tune is built, we can switch to closed loop and tune a bit more but at that point one can incorporate the flex sensor to the ecu can correct based on fuel content per key cycle. now that i have an ecu that works correctly LMAO LMAO 5: that will need to be verified periodically of course but very handy feature. i have a lot of free time right now and was looking at this from carls point of view with bazzaz as i used to run one. not sure if they have come up with a few new options as e85 has become more popular with the bikes.
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I guess I don't understand what you just said. My total cost (shipping included)of anhydrous E98 blended with pump ,no alky, 91 to get no water e85 was approx $4 a gallon. That's less than twice the price of pump 91 or pump e85. With all that said,I will not likely run E85 in another engine. The shit does nasty stuff to cylinder walls and rings. Just wait till you tear down your engine and have a looky. The cylinder walls will be tattooed and the rings will have some corrosion as well.
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well i don't like the sounds of that!
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I'll post a couple pics later Tonite. I was pretty disappointed to say the least .One thing you will always want to do is bring the oil up to high enough temp long enough to rid it of all water every time you start it up.
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Not too good but the best pic I could get. The area in red shows the classic cylinder tattooing from ethanol or worse yet methanol. That discoloration "stripe" is around .001 deep. All cylinders have at least one tattoo at various depths depending on where piston was when engine stopped. Something most people do not realize is that most engines will come to a stop in the same one or two positions and that makes any acids developed and not burning away before engine is stopped will concentrate the corrosion tattooing at the same area nearly every time the engine is stopped. I forgot to get a shot of the ring damage I spoke of. This is why you never want to start engine and not bring it up to full running temp of water and oil and running it long enough to boil/burn off the acids and any condensation. The problem is that e85ish runs so cool that can be hard or even impossible to do in mild or cooler temps.
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looks like a scuff in the pic but i'll take your word on it. are you just going to clean the cyl up and replace pistons and rings?
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I'll have JE make me a set of .003 over pistons and rehone to size. Use file fit rings.No biggie really. It is definitely acid erosion of the cylinder. Common issue.
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i know my timing table is very conservative......just for grins and giggles i may try e55 on the sand for cold morning start ups. it's less finicky than true e85 but sill has 100 to 102 octane depending on manufacturer. according to that calculator e50 to e55 aren't really that different octane #'s and may reduce any build ups in the engine.
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fun little couple of pages to play with.
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they really are.