DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: fabr on June 16, 2021, 07:33:21 PM
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I can't believe how Covid has effed me. First Dart informs me they don't have a clue when they would be making any more Iron Eagle blocks for the foreseeable future . They don't actually have their own foundry like Brodix so they have little control on when they get castings. Effin Covid. I then go looking for a used one but of course I want some options such as .927 bronze bushed heyway lifter bores/55mm roller cam bearings/raised cam/Sb2.2 lifter pattern ,etc.. Rare as hens teeth but I located one and as far as I can tell it is probably one out there anymore. Ok ,cool,I decide to buy it. Effin circle track guys are flaky as all get out and I'm on my way to inspect/buy. I get a call informing me he had decided to keep it. At least I wasn't very far,could have been worse like 12 fricken hours further!!! 5: Fast forward a few days and I decide to call Dart and see if there was any availability of a Little M block. They said yes,but,16 weeks out with the options I need. Eff me.
On a bright note though ,I did score a new,used for mock up only Morel DLC coated .926 keyway lifters for a killer deal. Retail for these things is minimum of $2600 a set and I got them for $500. ;D 8) ;D Also found a Jesel raised cam belt drive about $150 under going price. I guess some things are going right. :m
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That sucks on the engine block. Glad you found something that will work for you. I have to ask (I know it's probably been covered) why you don't go with an LS platform? I know you are probably in too deep now with fit, accessories, etc.
I did get lucky and have a new MD5 sitting in the shop, with all new lower gear ratios
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Changing to the LS platform would be a huge PITA. Basically everything would be different. I mean,EVERYTHING! :m Besides I can make as much or more HP n/a with the Sb2.2 than an LS. I have lots of parts also for keeping the SB2.2 platform alive for a long time. Only thing I don't have is a big inch short block,hence the Little M Dart block.
The Little M starting out at 4.125 bore and will still be good to go @ 4.185 with minimum cylinder walls of .275 thick. That will give me years and years of refreshes .005 at a time. The things are 2000 HP capable strength wise. I'm having Patterson Elite in Augusta,Ks get it for me. They have been tight with Dart forever so maybe,just maybe,the 16 weeks will at least be realistic.
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Good you found a trans. Lower gears will be a nice plus!
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fabr, thats does bite. so covid has messed up a lot of things. imo, its also been used as an excuse for a lot of things as well. which one is which.....i will never know. you wont get it done when you had hoped but you will ge5 it done. i hope the current engine is safe and solid for an octobher ride.
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budlight.... you got lucky finding another 5 speed. better hold onto that like its the last one on earth ;D
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fabr, thats does bite. so covid has messed up a lot of things. imo, its also been used as an excuse for a lot of things as well. which one is which.....i will never know. you wont get it done when you had hoped but you will ge5 it done. i hope the current engine is safe and solid for an octobher ride.
Yes,it is.
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Warning!!!! Sticker shock. Taking guesses on a new Dart Little M block,billet main caps ,raised 55mm roller cam bearings, SB2.2 lifter pattern with .936 bushed keyway lifter bores and Dart does all finish machine work(bore/hone/deck/line hone cam bores and main bores),ready to assemble. What is your guess?
I missed it by $1000 5:
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$4,862.00.
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You and I think alike. We are wrong though. Drowning :m
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$6,313.00.
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damn
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$6314.00 :m
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6K even.
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still...... damn!
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Just think,the .937 keyway lifter bushings and maching to SB2.2 lifter pattern is $1700 of it by itself. I saved enough on the NOS Morel lifters to pay for the bushing install. LOL!! Easy come,easy go.
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any updates?
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Yup. $30K of parts paid for and now playing the 4-6 month (if I'm lucky)waiting game. What did take 30 days before covid BS now takes forever. Problem is that I still need to order titanium valves and springs, shaft rockers and pushrods but can't order them till I get the engine mocked up whenever the block gets here. Every focking thing is custom on these damn things. Bright spot is they should "only" take 5-7 weeks according to Liberty and T&D. In other words all I have gotten done is spend money. :m
That's the short version. I'll fill you in next week.
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Woohoo!!!! I got word the block/pistons/rods/crank should all be here sometime =================next month!! :m :m bs1 :m
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that is good news and about time :m i hope they are what they are supposed to be! going to be a great build!!
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LMAO ya just 28+/- weeks instead of 16 . bs1 :m :m
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LMAO ya just 28+/- weeks instead of 16 . bs1 :m :m
only 28 weeks huh :m :nw
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:m I get a call today that my block will/probably/likely/well maybe ship next week!! :m :nw though,still waiting for a maybe ship date for the pistons. Drowning Looks like I'll be running the 360 for our spring gathering. Damn.
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I have a block!!!!! I have crank/rods /pistons/rings/custom cam, etc.. I have everything for the short block!!!!! I have heads being revised at Speier Racing Heads being modded to my liking for endurance use. Soooooo,another 3 months and I will be able to begin mock up. What should have taken 3 months has ,as usual, became a much longer than normal process. I must say the wait was worth it for the block. Dart did a really fine job with it. If I should decide to later do anything I want to with it power wise, I can do so with confidence it is up to the task. Same goes for the Callies crank/rods. I doubt I do it but a supercharged version could be i the future as I get bored with 900ish N/A hosses.
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Technically heads are ready for install but I have been wishy-washy about using the 6/7 mm valve stem sizes. I finally made my mind up late in the game after all this time that I just wasn't going to use the tiny stems even though they do just fine for 1000 laps at 9K in Nascar trim. I want to have reliable use for at least 5K miles before needing a freshen up. Sooooo,that's why Speier has the heads now getting new guides/seats/coated titanium valves and a new 5 angle valve job. Now I will be happy.
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Good news on the parts finally showing up. Can't wait to hear this beast run!
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Just shy of a damn year for a custom block. beathorse.gif~c200 :m
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that seems a bit long to myself.....under normal circumstances that is. with the way everything is screwed up currently, not bad :m
glad you got everything so far, wish i could say the same on my trans!
this will be a very nice addition to the rail and so will a sc maybe possibly some day???? :m :nw
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Good news on the parts finally showing up. Can't wait to hear this beast run!
that makes two of us!
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Good news on the parts finally showing up. Can't wait to hear this beast run!
that makes two of us!
That makes 3. The Ti valves are out 3 months. :m Who knows how long it will really take. I should have made my mind up a long time ago. Oh well. The 360 will just have to do for now.
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that seems a bit long to myself.....under normal circumstances that is. with the way everything is screwed up currently, not bad :m
glad you got everything so far, wish i could say the same on my trans!
this will be a very nice addition to the rail and so will a sc maybe possibly some day???? :m :nw
For dune use I feel a supercharger is best but twins would be a lot easier to do. Honestly,I'm going to just enjoy the damn thing till it becomes boring and then decide what I'll do.
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that seems a bit long to myself.....under normal circumstances that is. with the way everything is screwed up currently, not bad :m
glad you got everything so far, wish i could say the same on my trans!
this will be a very nice addition to the rail and so will a sc maybe possibly some day???? :m :nw
For dune use I feel a supercharger is best but twins would be a lot easier to do. Honestly,I'm going to just enjoy the damn thing till it becomes boring and then decide what I'll do.
I can completely understand that!
Not sure is up with summit but damn they are having distribution and customer care issues. I got my southbend clutch for the pick up but not throw out arm. Southbend offers a heavy duty throw out arm for there heavy duty clutch. Claim its stronger then stock and stock wasn't that strong. I called South bend and asked when they might hVe the next run finished as I would really like it to replace the clutch. ...she said we have plenty in stock. I e planned I bought from summit as southbend doesn't sell direct and was told to call summit and have them request. Drop ship. So 4 phone calls later I supposedly have a throw out arm shipping out today. Clutch showed up mon and that was 6 days after I ordered it. I get the supply chain issues but the gal at southbend said summit tries to wait for a large order rather then having items dropped shipped these days.
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Did all your parts finally show up?
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:m :m :m :m
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:m :m :m :m
;D
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Woohoo. I got word today that my exhaust valves are finally being shipped! OOOOOKKKKKKK,what about the intakes? Wellllllll,we don't know yet. Hopefully pretty soon they say. :nw :m :m :m :m Good gawd!!!! Looks like a 4 month build will likely be 2+ years before it will go together. bs1
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Woohoo. I got word today that my exhaust valves are finally being shipped! OOOOOKKKKKKK,what about the intakes? Wellllllll,we don't know yet. Hopefully pretty soon they say. :nw :m :m :m :m Good gawd!!!! Looks like a 4 month build will likely be 2+ years before it will go together. bs1
Hey hey, 50% of the order is a fantastic start :m
Wonder why they really so far behind? I hope its not a 2 year project but it most def could turn into one at the rate parts are going out these days.
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I started this damn project about June of 21. It'll be 2 years this June. With at least 4 months to get the custom Jesel steel shaft rockers it'll be then before I get all the parts at the soonest. bs1
Blame world wide shortage of nearly everything,many people flush with covid money creating a huge demand for parts and add to that the reality that all the major aftermarket big names are being bought up by RaceWinningBrands with nothing but bean counters running things and this crap is only getting worse.
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2021/05/race-winning-brands-acquires-victory-1-performance/
https://makedailyprofit.com/business-reviews/race-winning-brands/
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I started this damn project about June of 21. It'll be 2 years this June. With at least 4 months to get the custom Jesel steel shaft rockers it'll be then before I get all the parts at the soonest. bs1
Blame world wide shortage of nearly everything,many people flush with covid money creating a huge demand for parts and add to that the reality that all the major aftermarket big names are being bought up by RaceWinningBrands with nothing but bean counters running things and this crap is only getting worse.
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2021/05/race-winning-brands-acquires-victory-1-performance/
https://makedailyprofit.com/business-reviews/race-winning-brands/
True
The large investors have been buying up the ma and pa camp grounds too as well as many other businesses. A surge in online jobs too.
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sums it up
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sums it up
:m :m :m :m YUP!!!!!
Anyone saying it is just jealous................ rofl
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how did the current v8 in your rail run out for 2022? i am sure the new engine will drag on for a bit because of parts delays and even more so if the current engine continues to run great! ;D
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So far the 360 '05 era nascrap has performed flawlessly, plenty of power. It dyno'd 580 at the wheel. My only concerns are the spindly crank and itty bitty valve stems.
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So far the 360 '05 era nascrap has performed flawlessly, plenty of power. It dyno'd 580 at the wheel. My only concerns are the spindly crank and itty bitty valve stems.
I know the last few runs I was behind you, it looked like it ran ery strong.
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:m :m :m :m :m I'm sorry rofl rofl rofl rofl No,really,I mean it LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO Seriously!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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For some crazy reason that didn't seem like sincere, " it wasn't on purpose" remarks LMAO :m :nw rofl
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;D ;D ;D
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Carl needs to be wary. I seem to remember a big sand wave I need to return...........with interest. :nw ;) ;D ;D
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Carl needs to be wary. I seem to remember a big sand wave I need to return...........with interest. :nw ;) ;D ;D
I’m pretty sure we are past the “statute of limitations “. Lol
That’s like 10 yrs ago? Damn
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No such thing as statute of limitations! No siree! 5: rofl only limit is how my memory holds out . :m
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LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
3:25
https://youtu.be/UUXDHEX3dFg
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:m :nw
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Hallelujah!! I have all my valves !! Woohoo!!!!
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Finally, that's great news!!
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I should have heads back maybe next week. Then off to Jesel for rockers and maybe 3-4 months later have everything finally ready to start mock up.If lucky I might have it ready for our fall run.
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I should have heads back maybe next week. Then off to Jesel for rockers and maybe 3-4 months later have everything finally ready to start mock up.If lucky I might have it ready for our fall run.
You'll get it done when its right, I have no doubts about that. Personally I like the way your current v8 runs so if this one run the same or better w/o the issues you had head gasket issues then its a win win. I got feeling this one my out perform the current!
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It should run as well as the 434 did up till it pushed the head gaskets. That would be approx 850 at flywheel and 650ish at wheel. Lot broader/flat torque curve than the nascrapper
I have began to resurrect that 434 BTW. New cam more suited to the use and much lighter valve train. Issues I had should not recur.
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It should run as well as the 434 did up till it pushed the head gaskets. That would be approx 850 at flywheel and 650ish at wheel. Lot broader/flat torque curve than the nascrapper
I have began to resurrect that 434 BTW. New cam more suited to the use and much lighter valve train. Issues I had should not recur.
so you say " as well " but i knowing you im betting it runs better! ;D
if you can tame down the head gasket issue that was a great running engine! your current engine runs great imo it does as commanded and the rail is heavy enough that power and traction doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Let's just say there was a noticeable difference between the 360 cid and 434cid torque. Very noticable. Hopefully the 427 will be the best of the 3.
The way Bullet and Comp explained it to me the cam I was using maintained too high a dynamic compression ratio to be run at lower rpms with WOT. Bullet says they can grind me one that will avoid that. The cam I was using is the cam that ran me with the 434 in the low 7 second 1/4 mile. I never should have tried it for use in a sand car. The 434 in the dragster never saw below 5800 at launch and just loved the cam
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I will be the first to admit that I am not well read into the cam world. The little I have had to learned , for use in my 2.3, plus the reL world end results, have taught me cams can/will make more differences on the same engine. I mean major differences i never would've guessed. Mechanical cam timing also make differences but not to the extent a cam grind change makes!
The cid difference would add tq for sure. To be honest, I never got to run behind you to see the original v8 in action. The current v8 runs damn good based on what I have seen watching you run it.
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Years ago when nascar went to the intake restrictor plates they had a similar issue. The drivers had to leave the pits with very light throttle until they were up to near race speeds to go WOT or they were very prone to pushing the gaskets out. I was doing pretty much the same. LOL ,live and learn.
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Years ago when nascar went to the intake restrictor plates they had a similar issue. The drivers had to leave the pits with very light throttle until they were up to near race speeds to go WOT or they were very prone to pushing the gaskets out. I was doing pretty much the same. LOL ,live and learn.
now that you say that, it seems that you mentioned that last trip at the dunes. i never knew that and don't doubt it for one second.
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Woo FRICKEN hoo!!!!!! My heads are finally done. Pick up tomorrow , take to Patterson Machine to send to Jesel for rockers. I hope they are still "only" 3-4 months out. This bitch might be getting close to coming alive.
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That is cause for celebration !
3 to 4 months though!
The delays shouldn't be happening but have become common.
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Common is a foreign concept when it comes to an engine that literally has no common parts . Before covid this damn thing would have taken 3-4 months to build.
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Common is a foreign concept when it comes to an engine that literally has no common parts . Before covid this damn thing would have taken 3-4 months to build.
exactly! i still don't believe covid is the true reason behind the shortages , but hey what do i know ;) :m
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Better profit $$$$$$$$ is behind it. Last year I sold the same gross, yet profits were approx 20% higher. Our best year on the last 20.
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Well here it is Aug 11 2023. This project started June 17 2021. Almost exactly 2 years and the rockers are finally here and I can start the build/mockup. Only thing left to buy custom will be the pushrods that length cannot be determined till heads are on. I have been told Manton will have them within7-10 days of ordering. I guess the pushrod guys don't want to be the last guys holding up an engine build 4-6 months. :m Gonna head to Augusta Tues to pick up the rockers. Can't wait to see them. They better be PRETTY for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$they cost.
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All sounds like great news all in all. I hope this motor runs flawless on first start and for many years.
The rockers had better be damn nice for the money but more for the amount of time they took ;D
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Any updates?
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Just doing mock up and checking everything at least twice . Probably tomorrow trial attach heads and get approximate push rod lengths so I can get appropriate push rod checker/s coming from Manton. I have 6 different ones but all are ball end/ball end. Jesel wanted me to do ball end/socket end sooooooo now I'll have 2 more. Manton says 7-10 days for customs so that is not bad.