Author Topic: DS a-arm kit information needed.  (Read 33006 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #195 on: May 15, 2021, 06:15:28 AM »
def welcome to ride little sahara sand dunes with the dts group. how wide is the elbow to elbow room in the seating area of that rail? looks pretty good btw.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #196 on: May 15, 2021, 06:31:22 AM »
the use of air shocks is probably 50/50. the shock choice is up to the end user as only they know how they ride. the best set up is always twins with an external bypass but that takes up a fair amount of space and adds weight. imo and only imo, the next best to that would be a set of 12" stroke podium shocks off the front end of a '17 or newer can am maverick turbo x3. those podium shocks come with internal bypass's so sort of the best of both worlds but not quite. def better than a fox air but again, depends on the end users goals/needs and ability to tune them. air shocks are by far the easiest to tune but have there limitations. they have worked well for myself and many others over the years as well. in the last pic the customer used a hoop to mount the lower shocks. i don't recommend that as it doesn't spread the load out far enough as he found out. the shocks load tube differently between a top mount and a lower mount location. strange but tried and true over the years. the farther inboard the absolute need to spread the load.








« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 06:36:18 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #197 on: May 15, 2021, 06:39:33 AM »
this pic of doug heims rail that is running my front end, shows a sort of boxed lower shock mount. he took a run of 1"x2" rectangle tube and split it diagonally then ran a piece 1" od & 1/2" id tube through it for lower shock mounts. this really strengthens the arms not only for a lower mounted shock but impact as well as protects the shock head.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 07:35:32 AM by dsrace »
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Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #198 on: May 15, 2021, 08:54:35 AM »
At this point I'm going to chime in on this.  The DS front end kits are very well designed and work well.  I'm positive there are no unhappy customers that have converted their sand cars from beams or crappy geometry a-arm fronts.  Positive!.   However there is a lot of good to be said for well set up beam fronts when it comes to rugged durability for hitting rocks and snagging trees and stuff. From the pic I may be wrong but it appears your buggy may fall into the rocks and tree obstacle use? If its primary use is sand and open country then there is no way I'd keep the beam.   Just food for thought.

Thanks for the reply, good info.
I'm in Michigan, we make a few trips to the dunes each summer and primarily just trail ride through the woods and back roads. My beam is very heavy built so I would assume the stronger of the options, but I think for the riding we do this DS set up should be ok. How does it compare in whooped out sections and handling minor jumps at the dunes?

I see in most applications I've seen pictures of, air shocks are the more used shocks, are these preferred over coil overs with this kit for a certain reason or just a personal preference?

Thanks
The set up will easily handle anything you wish to do with it in the dunes. No problem.   The air shocks is what the designer has always used from the beginning and I think most buyers have followed suit. They do work well.  I believe that if you were to go coil carriers with bypasses you would have a set up as good as any $$$$ setups out there including the $$$$$$ cars. There is no comparision between an air shock vs simple dual rate coil over vs coil carrier/bypass combo. It's a good/good/best comparision.

Great info, thanks.

Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2021, 09:01:37 AM »
BTW,we have 2 dtsfab group meet ups a year at Little Sahara Oklahoma. Our next one is Oct 18-22 ride days. You are certainly invited. We would love to have you. We have members all over the US that come. Literally, east coast to west and North border area to florida. It's worth the drive.

Nice. Definitely appreciate that. We make a couple trips a year to Silver Lake Sand Dunes here in Michigan, my kids have asked about other dunes and Little Sahara was the first they mentioned. You'll have to let me know when next years rides are planned and we will see if we can make that happen. I dont think i could make this year but would like to see if we could next year. Appreciate the invite.

Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #200 on: May 15, 2021, 09:21:43 AM »
fabr touched on some very good points and thanks for the compliment fabr!

the air shocks are the easiest for new to the game people to understand, adjust and install. they are also the cheapest and lightest weight. this has always been the appeal for most but you can use what ever shock you want. when i built them in the beginning i never included from lower shock mounts as it's best to set you own shock mounts up for the finished frame. i had many many people say i really needed to include lower shock mounts, so i started. as most of the experienced dts members know, universal seldom works perfectly. i just happen to know the new builder doesn't offer lower shock mounts either.  if you are running trails and hook a tree at speed, an a arm will likely bend or deform at the least. as fabr mentioned, an a arm will not bounce off like a beam front end..... depending on speed and where they hit that is. i'd like to see a side pic w/o the skin and a measurement between the upper and lower main frame tubes.

Pics of side removed and the measurement between the tubing.
Dont mind the dust, dirt and rats nest for wiring....she's been been gunna get tore down for paint and re-done for the last 3 winter's, but I keep finding more and more to do to her, and it looks like one more project before paint headed her way  :)




Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #201 on: May 15, 2021, 09:33:23 AM »
def welcome to ride little sahara sand dunes with the dts group. how wide is the elbow to elbow room in the seating area of that rail? looks pretty good btw.

Room inside is not to bad, I have added suspension seats and they seem to fit good with a little room between. It is a pretty comfy cockpit and protected from things pretty well. I believe this is an older Berrien off-road chassis but not 100% sure. I lucked out when I found this 5-6 years ago and its been fun upgrading things. We used to have to climb through the roof but I have fabbed up doors that at first glance you cant see but they are pretty functional and make it a lot easier to get in and out. I've done 2 different engine swaps to it and now looking to do the a-arm conversion, then it should be time to paint and finish how I would like it. All part of the fun is the build for sure.



Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #202 on: May 15, 2021, 09:58:04 AM »
the use of air shocks is probably 50/50. the shock choice is up to the end user as only they know how they ride. the best set up is always twins with an external bypass but that takes up a fair amount of space and adds weight. imo and only imo, the next best to that would be a set of 12" stroke podium shocks off the front end of a '17 or newer can am maverick turbo x3. those podium shocks come with internal bypass's so sort of the best of both worlds but not quite. def better than a fox air but again, depends on the end users goals/needs and ability to tune them. air shocks are by far the easiest to tune but have there limitations. they have worked well for myself and many others over the years as well. in the last pic the customer used a hoop to mount the lower shocks. i don't recommend that as it doesn't spread the load out far enough as he found out. the shocks load tube differently between a top mount and a lower mount location. strange but tried and true over the years. the farther inboard the absolute need to spread the load.
Quote

Appreciate all the pics, helps see all the different options and ideas.
We currently have converted my daughters, sons and my rail over to coil overs, although still playing with valving would probably be the shock i will use for this. We put a set of Elka stage 5 on my duaghters off a Wildcat I was able to find on ebay, seems used SxS shocks can be a good start point.

I like the boxed idea for the lower shock mount you showed, that look's pretty solid and I like the idea of protecting the shock to.

What does this kit weigh?

Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #203 on: May 15, 2021, 10:28:19 AM »
i do not remember the exact weight anymore but it's seems to me they are just under 90lbs boxed.  def lighter then a stock beam front end. tape measure is in the wrong place but looks like you have a high side frame. those are the easiest to swap out. these front ends were originally designed for the barrien frames and worked well on the acme and prowler lines too.  here are a few more pics of another.















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Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2021, 10:32:26 AM »
































































Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2021, 10:35:08 AM »


































Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #206 on: May 15, 2021, 10:40:13 AM »
i do not remember the exact weight anymore but it's seems to me they are just under 90lbs boxed.  def lighter then a stock beam front end. tape measure is in the wrong place but looks like you have a high side frame. those are the easiest to swap out. these front ends were originally designed for the barrien frames and worked well on the acme and prowler lines too.  here are a few more pics of another.

Will definitely be lighter than my current set then!

That's the same chassis as my daughters, nice. Better not let see that one converted!!  ;D

Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2021, 10:43:19 AM »
as you can see in 2 of the pics, the diff from the upper and lower frame measurement , at seating area in relation to front end. that is an old low side barrien frame. those are just easier to split the upper supports, raise the frame rails a few inches then add the front end.  the low side frames are roughly 8" at that mark and kind of looked like yours is 11" there. hope this helps.



















































































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Offline Aprilfools

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #208 on: May 15, 2021, 10:53:14 AM »
So many different and great looking ideas on how to tie in the cradle.

Looks like jumping seems to be no issue at all.

Offline dsrace

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Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2021, 10:54:52 AM »
So many different and great looking ideas on how to tie in the cradle.

Looks like jumping seems to be no issue at all.

only if you land right  ;D  :m
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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