Author Topic: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?  (Read 5600 times)

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Offline dsrace

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anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« on: March 08, 2020, 03:22:46 PM »
does anyone have any experience with dual disc clutch's?  i have been running one now for 3 years. stage 2 , 200mm flywheel dual disc from KEP. i just sent them an email. i took all this apart, (while the engine is out) because i have some oil seepage that i thought may be the rear main. these engines are know for that area or right behind it.  i was looking at the clutch and it looks a little worse for the wear. it is supposed to be rated for 450 ft lbs tq as a stage 2 dual disc. i find it hard to believe i pushed that and i have never felt it slip while running but with out 1st i have had to slip it to take off. now on hard accel in the soft sand or in the trails i prob wouldn't have noticed it slipping a small amount.

any thoughts? does this look normal or like it's gotten hot?










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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 03:24:55 PM »
yes they look like faint ball peen hammer marks in person as well. the grooves in the friction discs is real also. could the rough ball peen looking marks be some sort of clutch chatter? they are not actual hammer marks just look like it. feel fairly smooth
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Offline DeepBusch69

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 03:31:35 PM »
That is toasty for sure.  Do you have to slip the clutch very much when loading the car into the trailer? 

Offline DeepBusch69

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2020, 03:42:08 PM »
Get it machined true and flat, get rid of the heat spots, the 6 pucks look ok from here.  The new 1st gear will help a lot

Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2020, 05:07:14 PM »
def have had to slip the clutch to load, take off, stay in 2nd climbing hills lol  ;D i emailed kep for a call back on mon. i am going to order new friction disc's just because it's apart. i am taking the pressure plate and flywheel in for surfacing tomorrow. shop behind us does just that. sent those pics to the trans builder....he said maybe a floater clutch? i honestly have never heard of that before. anyone know what that is? the marks on the fly wheel and pressure plate can be felt but there pretty smooth.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2020, 05:07:47 PM »
 the new 3.44 1st gear will stop the slipping while loading and deeper 2nd thru 4th will stop 2nd gear slip lol alot of clutch dust in there as well. doesn't smell like a burnt clutch though.

so i just went look that floater term up. mine has a floater plate already as it is a twin disc. ya know i only have 3 years on this clutch , 6 trips to the dunes and a number of runs back here.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 05:13:48 PM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2020, 08:54:53 AM »
took the flywheel and clutch to lincoln clutch and brake. so their first statement was how long as that been slipping lol  so the pic of the flywheel only has those marks on the out ring or outter half of the surface. found out why....my pressure plate is smoked. it got hot enough that its surfaced warped, btw my flywheel weighs 14 lbs. for some reason i thought they were 11 lbs normally on the 200mm 091 trans??
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2020, 08:56:04 AM »
forgot to include the pic of the pressure plate. with just a stright edge you can see the warpage. 200mm stagw 2 kep pressure plate.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2020, 09:16:04 AM »
so just for my info , i went and weighed the steel floater plate and second friction plate.......5 lbs! i will ask kep what a standard single disc clutch flywheel weighs 200mm. just curious how much weight that adds to the assembly on top of the extra 5 lbs from the twin disc.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2020, 12:28:23 PM »
called KEP this morning and asked them to open the email and look at the pics. they say the pads barely look lapped in and that the spider web ball peen looking marks are normal wear marks for a dual disc clutch. pad thickness new is .200 and limit is .182. not a huge tolerence imo but apperantly they last quite a while. so thinnest pad on my clutch is .194, thickest is .198 and the floater plate is  not warped, about .002 under new spec. pressure plate was the only part warped.   no signs of bluing like extreme heat. this explain the weird wear pattern at the flywheel as well. they asked if there were signs of the disc center striking the flywheel bolt head.....no.....asked if i installed the pressure plate correctly......i said theres only one way to install that and a tq spec for the bolts. i then asked if it could've been shipped to me already warped, they said every one of there products are checked before shipping. thats amazing if its true.  never would've guess that hammered look is normal wear pattern for a dual disc!

rated for 570 ft lbs tq
200mm stage 2 dual disc.......disc .200 new .185 limit
flolater plate   .187 new and .182 limit
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Offline DeepBusch69

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 09:39:30 AM »
How much heavier is a dual disc compared to a single? 

Offline fabr

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2020, 11:50:47 AM »
It's not just the weight. A small diameter dual disc will shift easier than a large diameter single disc of equal tq capacity. That is the main reason to use a dual disc other than the much smaller dual disc diameter allowing the engine to sit lower in the chassis.

Was this a new setup or a second hand one?

Te discs,floater and the flywheel look pretty good,IMO. The question is ,what caused the warped PP.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2020, 11:51:15 AM »
How much heavier is a dual disc compared to a single?

the "lady" at kep claims after they machine the flyhweel for the dual disc its basically the same weight. so measuring the 2nd friction and floater.....those 2 alone weigh 5 lbs. i didnt ask how much a standard flywheel weighs but i know mine weighs 14 lbs.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 11:55:45 AM »
It's not just the weight. A small diameter dual disc will shift easier than a large diameter single disc of equal tq capacity. That is the main reason to use a dual disc other than the much smaller dual disc diameter allowing the engine to sit lower in the chassis.

Was this a new setup or a second hand one?

Te discs,floater and the flywheel look pretty good,IMO. The question is ,what caused the warped PP.

i agree. 
this was purchsed new with adaptor and starter from kep.    she said maybe i put it together wrong.....i then asked if they sent me a warped pressure plate  LMAO she didnt like that question as i didnt like hers!  it was assembled correctly. i think it may have warped dues to having to slip it so much on take off and loading. several times i had to slip it climbing a dune to stay in 3rd and get it to rev. had to take so much off to surface the press plate it is now at its min thickness. i'm running it anyway! my frictions are at 75% so i put them back in and floater is damn near new on thickness too. i have never ran a dual disc and those wear marks arent like that of a single .....now i know lol
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Offline fabr

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Re: anyone have experiance with dual disc ?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2020, 05:39:32 PM »
OK,makes sense now. The heat from slippage and the perimeter loading of the diaphragm would tend to cup the PP. In all honesty,they should have told you so.Those metallic frictions make some serious heat when slipping yet are able to mostly take the abuse.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

 

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