DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
General Discussion => The video room => Topic started by: dsrace on October 10, 2022, 11:45:52 AM
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https://youtu.be/OEogAUhg3TM
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https://youtu.be/ZdEtw4TO1mw
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https://youtube.com/shorts/HF2JcOVNlBk?feature=share
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https://youtube.com/shorts/BwuOxvPBfHI?feature=share
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https://youtu.be/NqnyF8Vth1I
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I am exploring shock options. There will be a shock change this winter Long with other alterations on my rail.
So had a min to speak with the tech at ori yesterday. Very unique and interesting shock. They utilize a 2.0 piston and the body is 3.25 od at its fattest. They by pass shocks, air shocks ( n20) , 2" hydronic bump stop built into the rear, dual Schrader because this shock has dual chamber for pressure above and below the sealed piston,, when equipped with the piggy back res ( their term of integral resivior) then one has 24 setting for comp and 7 for rebound. Rebound rate is also effected by the lower n20 chamber pressure. That psi starts at 100 psi and is adjusted accordingly from there. If the ride is too soft then lower the psi by 10 psi increments. If its too stiff then you add in 10cc increments. Backwards of what I am used to with fox 2.5 and 2.0's. So when a fox air shock gets hot the valving rates fate and the shocks sag a touch. When the shocks are cold as in 1st thing a.m. they also sag until you put some heat in them. The slower the comp or rebound rates are the faster they heat up. You have one pressure zone that sets ride height and effects rebound more then one knows. I have spent many years ayi g with fox airs, re valving, trying different configurations with different wet weights and rear end designs.
The interesting part of this shock is the lower n20 zone. So you start by dropping the psi in both sides. Leave the shock bottomed out and start at 100 psi on the bottom and then add to the top. You do not jack them up off the ground like king or fox airs. If you add to much to the lower it will actually lift the tire off the ground. That zone is pushing up vs the upper pushing down and the upper sets ride height only. This apperantly effects rebound rate as well as rate of full extension of the shock in whats adds to the " sway bar like feel/effect". That is shown in the above video and the pressure diff was made in the lower half/zone. Very unique shock and $1600 each. Fox 2.5 coil over podium shock are as well. adding up the. Cost of a c/o with remote res, bypass shock, hydronic bump stop and a sway bar exceeds their price.
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One thing I am not sure of is the psi that will be required to set ride height. I say this as enemy and I swapped to 2 5 because he was at the limits of the 2.0 on psi. I went 2.5 right away based on his swap, thanks for the r&d enemy ;D . As these shock have diff n20 chamberz i wonder how that effects required psi ranges. Need to discuss that with the rep. Dave from michigan/Wisconsin with the ecoboost 3.5 rail uses them on his rail. He has the diesel pusher with the stacker behind it and his wife brings her mustang.
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Coilcarriers and bypasses with remote resis. Tried and proven,simple to adjust. KISS ,IMO.
I am not convinced that any shock that relies on gas pressures for ANY tuning is good for anything where the shock cycles a LOT and very fast. Slow ,OK.
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Here is some food for thought. I have for a long time considered the use of torsion bars with bypasses. The use of vasco250 for the torsions would be capable of the needed degree of twist. Would probably necessitate the use of bump stops again since there would be no dual spring rate.
Still coil carriers and bypasses are the best thing ,IMO.
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Coilcarriers and bypasses with remote resis. Tried and proven,simple to adjust. KISS ,IMO.
I am not convinced that any shock that relies on gas pressures for ANY tuning is good for anything where the shock cycles a LOT and very fast. Slow ,OK.
coil assist air shocks are the easiest to adjust imo. i understand your concern relying on gas pressures. i have experience with the gas shocks and am not worries how ever, i and enemy are at our limits with these fox airs. there are pro's and con's to all designs similar to what you listed in your last post. in places where packaging plays a major role, i thinks the ori shocks would be awesome compared to standard fox air. not sure about the 2.0 piston when one is already running a 2.5 but the ori far far out performs fox.
i have never been one that believes an all in one design is great. the seperate components are always the best way to go. i believe i found a set of fox 3.0 c/o podium shocks last night. waiting on a response to buy them if its correct.
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There is always room for differing idea.
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There is always room for differing idea.
Yes there is and thats a good thing. This is the reason forums such as this one exist.
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I agree and why this thing still exists. With the coming of the sxs world the info available in forums has gotten a lot less used though. This site costs very little to keep each year and I don't have any issue covering the cost to keep the info contained here available for the foreseeable future.
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I agree and why this thing still exists. With the coming of the sxs world the info available in forums has gotten a lot less used though. This site costs very little to keep each year and I don't have any issue covering the cost to keep the info contained here available for the foreseeable future.
Very appreciated !!
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I messaged 2 sellers on ebay about the used 3.0 fox podium and the other was a 2.5 piggy back fox podium. The 2.5 should be a 12" stroke and 3.0 should be a 14". had to ask as I want to be sure these sellers are not mistaken in There ads about year and model of sxs they came off of. Have now sent two messages each!! asked Both if they would measure the chrome shaft length. I asked that they measure the chrome shaft from the shock body down to the coil perch at the base above the shock eyelet. I have yet to get a response from either seller after 2 pm's each. How freaking lazy have sellers gotten that they can't measure a shock!!!!
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To answer the question , VERY lazy
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not sure i need a 3.0 c/o with DSC ( dual speed comp) adjuster or if the 2.5 version would be just fine. i am not at the end of my valving on the 2.5 fox airs. my concern is that i am at the limits of the shock in regards to g outs at the bottoms of the dunes at my weight class. i can slow the comp down twice as much but while i am cutting the back end off and making major changes this is the time to step up in the shock dept. not to mention that the hv24 weighs almost 40 lbs more ;D not even going to try and pick it up at my age :m showed enemy the trans and it is still in the crate it came in.
the 2.5 c/o with dsc is a much better shock then my 2.5 airs but the 3.0 is as well but wonder if it would be too much?? def moves for oil/volume then the 2.5 so should be able to operate at slower valving rates to help keep it cooler on hot days.
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:m My Fortin is over 200 pounds.
I believe you would be served well with the 2.5 coilovers. A 3.0 would work but springs etc are more expensive the bigger you go. My car weighs 3080 with a load of fuel IIRC. I am happy with the 2.5 coil carrier/2.5 bypasses.
Since you are redoing the rear I would highly suggest you go coilover/bypasses. You will not regret it other than the extra $$$$. Especially since you will then do the same up front. :nw It's only $$$$$ rofl rofl rofl
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How much shock stroke are you wanting?
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How much shock stroke are you wanting?
On the rear its between 12" and 14" stroke. I have considered narrowing the rail 2 to 4 ". The trans is supposedly 4" narrower and have not actually measured yet to know for sure. Just based on a cad print and memory of the megasand. Min 2" narrower but I believe 4" is prob the best way to say that. So if its 2" then considering cutting or ordering new axles 2" shorter. Reducing from 24" to 22 or 20" wheel travel and lessening the cv angle 2*. If I did then a 12" stroke shock would keep me under 2-1 motion ratio. Now I know we can play over 2-1 but I pre fer less if possible. Keeps the shock running cooler and all of this is based on the harsh conditions of LS. St a dunes are far far smoother , less punishing. My trans is not as heavy as your fortin ......about 30 ish lbs lighter, motor is 400 lbs.
On a side note, bought fox 2.5 c/o, internal by pass off a '17 x3 last year for the front. They are 10" stroke and I did so because my 2.5 airs are too much shock for the front. Only running like 300 psi in them.....275 or 300 and 45 comp and 3-1 rebound. Rebound has been the hardest to tame as well as the psi. Have not gotten them where I like them either and always felt I needed to leverage them out more. Front end is light enough that a 2.2 or 2.4 to 1 ratio would make a huge diff on tunability imo. So the 10" stroke operating at 2.4 to 1 might be spot on once tuned. They are heavier but I doubt that plays much of a role. Now empty wet weight will most likely be close to 2400 lbs in the end. 1960 wet right now and 40 lbs in a new trans alone! Add 8 coliseum and the remote res plus a 15 gal fuel tank if possible......yep ;) st a prep :m
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So I found a good used set of fox piggy back 2.5 c/o internal bypass shocks with dsc knobs. So they are 16" stroke but with the bump stops they are tech 15.5" stroke. Stock shocks on a 2020 or 2021 kawasaki krx teryx 1000 sxs. I really wanted 3.0's but they had none. They did have live valve 16" stroke off a '21 krx 1000 but I have no way to control them. There are a couple companies with stad alone systems the works. ordered the used shocks last night along with 2 more pieces that i think i will be using in the rebuild this winter.
The 2.5 c/o 16" stroke are are 41" extended. my fox air 2.5s 14" stroke are 38" extended. Not much more room and krx 1000 rear end is 21.5" true wheel travel. 1.34:1 motion ratio on a modified 4 link thats very close to a 5 link design. when i say true 21.5" wheel travel that is because there is 4" of GC at full bump. imo they have the vast majority of there competition beat in suspension geometry. they have the lower hp engine imo but there are ways around that if one needs more. the upgrade for that rear end is a 3.0 c/o dsc knob 16" stroke and $3500 for a pair!
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Other the. Designation at time of of purchase, how does one tell if. Shock is a bypass c/o? Been doing some light reading on ride fox's site and apparently performance and race series can both be by pass and both have single or dual comp adjusters. The front shocks i have also have a rebound adjustment on the bottom shock eyelet with dual comp adjustments. I do not have the rears yet, but, they are on there way. So reading a couple sites that list out which shocks went on which sxs's i realize they have substituted different shocks as upgrades. I assume (in this case) kawasaki's krx1000 shock info must be proprietary even though its built by fox. So based on pics there is only one external adjustment for comp. Looks like I can replace that section of the piggy back with a dual comp adjuster. I of course would pre fer internal by pass shocks but my real goal is better g out control. Thats where I am at my limits on the fox 2.5's. The low speed comp setting ( according to fox ride site) effect g outs so those are must. Very interesting article about flutter valve stacks coupled with dsc adjusters. Will have to tear that shock apart and give the flutter stack a try when I swap them to dsc.
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All I know is that on the yxz's we have different shocks on1 of them. Those shocks have dual springs and dual adjuster knobs. The other 3 xyz have progressive rate single springs with ,I believe,just a compression adjustment. I need to verify that. Don't remember for sure. The dual rate springs make a world of difference in ride quality.
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All I know is that on the yxz's we have different shocks on1 of them. Those shocks have dual springs and dual adjuster knobs. The other 3 xyz have progressive rate single springs with ,I believe,just a compression adjustment. I need to verify that. Don't remember for sure. The dual rate springs make a world of difference in ride quality.
i can believe that 100%. been looking around at dual rate spring kits for the '21 krx 1000 rear shock....... shock therapy wants $600 for a kit to do both rears. apperantly they are need to be a behive shape because the bottoms are so long. who knows but that is 2 beehive springs and two upper with a new cross over i believe.
https://youtu.be/GuTF7HqJJbU
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https://youtu.be/NZckizcJqcM
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The new used kawasaki krx 1000 rear shocks showed up yesterday. 2 out of 4 boxs and how they get scattered when they are loaded on 1 truck is beyond me. The other two wound going to Kansas somehow but are now on there way. So I know these have 2 coils but I do not believe they classify as dual rate springs sets. I belive the top is called a tender spring. We will address that along with possibly a dual comp adjustment system. Depends on cost S if a dual spring set and dcs add enough cost then probably will sell these and order new. 2.5 c/o piggy back 16" stroke.
(https://i.postimg.cc/64d4FZgd/20221021-155310.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/64d4FZgd)
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I tried do upload direct but it says the file size is too large. I am posting these from my phone so cannot resize or I should say do not know how on this phone.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDn9JBG/20221021-155030.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDn9JBG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yjf1nKHT/20221021-155008.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yjf1nKHT)
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Thosd are definitely dual rate spring setup.