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Author Topic: H-arm vs Trailing arm  (Read 9610 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2008, 07:02:54 PM »
Quote from: masterfabr on November 07, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
Would it not be practical to move the front mount forward on top and bottom arm to near the vertical plane that a trailing arm normally attaches to so it more directly transfers the loads of accel and decel and lessens loads on the rear portion of the cradle?

I think I know what you are saying but do you mean up in front of the motor?
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2008, 07:04:48 PM »
As far forward as possible while clearing everything.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2008, 07:06:22 PM »
here is the best pic I have of early constuction.
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2008, 07:11:39 PM »
Yes I'd mean in front of the engine.Make for a wide arm but would there be a downside that you or anyone else can see?
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but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2008, 07:11:42 PM »
 yes I do think you are right, but I also think a third member would be warranted for that span or even a shorter span wouldn't hurt. I went out and checked some #'s. the wheel bearing carrier and the heims ( rod ends ) are 8" on center and the outside of the carrier is 10" so I would go atleast 20" - 24" apart at the frame upper and lower to spread the load. I only say this because of what I have seen in real world use. enemy's rail has held up well all in all but I was discussing this with him the other night while we were discussing a one seater for just jumping use.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2008, 07:14:14 PM »
I also think if at all possible, make the engine/suspension cradle one solid piece with the front suspension cradle, 2 or 3 one piece tubes front to back to carry the load better.
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2008, 07:17:08 PM »
Quote from: dsrace on November 07, 2008, 07:11:42 PM
yes I do think you are right, but I also think a third member would be warranted for that span or even a shorter span wouldn't hurt. I went out and checked some #'s. the wheel bearing carrier and the heims ( rod ends ) are 8" on center and the outside of the carrier is 10" so I would go atleast 20" - 24" apart at the frame upper and lower to spread the load. I only say this because of what I have seen in real world use. enemy's rail has held up well all in all but I was discussing this with him the other night while we were discussing a one seater for just jumping use.
This is sort of what I was getting at in rick s's thread.I'm thinking there would be no need for the extra heavy lower front link if there were 3 mounting points on the lower arm.I'm thinking 2 would be fine for the upper.
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flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2008, 07:19:40 PM »
here's a better shot. enemy would have to take some pics of where we had to beef up the frame with tube gussets and add a  third member in the cradle and all the extra bracing behind the seats, to handle the additional loads of the dual h-arm.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2008, 07:21:58 PM »
when I said third member I actually was referring to down the middle of the h-arm instead of from the wheel to the out side of the seat, is this what you are thinking of or ricks design?
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2008, 07:28:02 PM »
No not like ricks but serving the same purpose in effect.I'm thinking or 3 mounting points on the same pivot axis.probably not necessary but I'm a little concerned with any twisting that might be induced while braking. I was thinking the h-arm like you have with the 3rd mount(on the same pivot axis as the other 2) placed forward to carry the thrust of accel./decel.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 07:30:09 PM by masterfabr »
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2008, 07:35:10 PM »
Quote from: masterfabr on November 07, 2008, 07:28:02 PM
No not like ricks but serving the same purpose in effect.I'm thinking or 3 mounting points on the same pivot axis.probably not necessary but I'm a little concerned with any twisting that might be induced while braking. I was thinking the h-arm like you have with the 3rd(on the same pivot axis as the other 2) placed forward to carry the thrust of accel./decel.


gotta and that is what I was reffering to. I do like the idea on the bottom and I think two pivot points on the top would be fine but still have to have the gusseted tabs on the top.

what do you think of a lower h-arm with a third member welded to it half way up the arm or so rather than at the wheel to clear the frame?

yes I too like paint, it is quicker than opening my solid works program.
something like this looks good to me, what do you think?
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2008, 07:42:34 PM »
that's it! I'd position it where it would carry on through to the rear heim. I'm also thinking of doing away with the heims at the wheel end pivots and using full width flanged delrin bushings like on the front a arms of this car..
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2008, 07:42:57 PM »
you would still want a pretty wide span on the top arm for better control especially with a reverse box and boost. I would also recomend 2.5's for rear shocks if one was going to go air.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2008, 07:45:04 PM »
Quote from: masterfabr on November 07, 2008, 07:42:34 PM
that's it! I'd position it where it would carry on through to the rear heim. I'm also thinking of doing away with the heims at the wheel end pivots and using full width flanged delrin bushings like on the front a arms of this car..

 I like the idea less chatter, but how would you align the rear with out lengthening or shortening wheel base?
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Offline fabr

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Re: H-arm vs Trailing arm
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2008, 07:46:09 PM »
Oh definitely a wide span.I'm thinking as wide as you did.Just bushings instead of heims.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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