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Author Topic: Battery cut-off  (Read 14170 times)

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Ozpilot

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2009, 06:11:56 PM »
Having read this thread I can give Fabr a valuable tip - when anything electrical is mentioned stay quiet - you'll look much smarter that way.  hehe

The best two few (had trouble limiting myself):

direction of flow - I guess we could just say that in oz it flows from neg to pos.  That may save some face.

And the crash scenario - classic!  Lets disconnect the positive so that if there is a crash and the bodywork comes in on the disconnected terminal (in this case the positive) we get a complete short cct - ever seen that sort of damage???  The cabling itself can burst into flame - a really intense fire/heat problem!!!  At least with negaitve disconnected, if the bodywork touches the negative the only current flowing is through whatever load was switched on in the vehicle - much less current and less chance of fire etc.  Any sparking would also be much less intense.

And the connection of jumper leads to "ground" instead of the battery to get the current to go to the starter instead of the battery - hehe - if the distances are similar will the path of least resistence include a chunk of engine block or some nice beefly copper cable???  And when it comes down to it, how much difference is distance going to make anyhow?  Have you ever seen where they usually put the connection lugs for this?  All the ones I have ever seen are much closer to the battery than the starter.  I hope to see you hooking up jumper leads some day - down near the starter - while you're down there ...

Sorry - I've gotta do another one:  Fabr says:  "I guess I'm stoopid. If the negative lead is disconnected you still have potential current flow if any hot lead makes ground from a dropped wrench or anything that will complete the circuit."  Just thinking a second ... with the neg disconnected you'd have to be accurate - the dropped wrench/hot lead set up will have to hit the neg terminal on the battery exactly - because the bodywork/chassis is disconnected (remember -  you disconnected the neg lead).  And, in Oz, with the flow going from neg to pos, "hot lead" takes on a new meaning.

Sorry ... it was just too funny reading this thread.
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Ozpilot

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2009, 06:12:46 PM »
And I'll sit here in a quiet moment enjoying my last seconds of zero smites ...
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Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2009, 06:47:27 PM »
Quote from: Artie on edge on May 10, 2009, 03:52:29 PM
I think you will find that once started the now madly CHARGING battery will be discharging gases as Ive (tried to)  explained. I think Ill have t ogive up...OK FABR YOUR RIGHT  ::)
Just how sudden are you trying to say this sudden wildly gassing occurs? It takes a bit to occur ya know.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2009, 07:02:02 PM »
Quote from: Ozpilot on May 10, 2009, 06:11:56 PM
Having read this thread I can give Fabr a valuable tip - when anything electrical is mentioned stay quiet - you'll look much smarter that way.  hehe

The best two few (had trouble limiting myself):

direction of flow - I guess we could just say that in oz it flows from neg to pos.  That may save some face.

And the crash scenario - classic!  Lets disconnect the positive so that if there is a crash and the bodywork comes in on the disconnected terminal (in this case the positive) we get a complete short cct - ever seen that sort of damage???  The cabling itself can burst into flame - a really intense fire/heat problem!!!  At least with negaitve disconnected, if the bodywork touches the negative the only current flowing is through whatever load was switched on in the vehicle - much less current and less chance of fire etc.  Any sparking would also be much less intense.

And the connection of jumper leads to "ground" instead of the battery to get the current to go to the starter instead of the battery - hehe - if the distances are similar will the path of least resistence include a chunk of engine block or some nice beefly copper cable???  And when it comes down to it, how much difference is distance going to make anyhow?  Have you ever seen where they usually put the connection lugs for this?  All the ones I have ever seen are much closer to the battery than the starter.  I hope to see you hooking up jumper leads some day - down near the starter - while you're down there ...

Sorry - I've gotta do another one:  Fabr says:  "I guess I'm stoopid. If the negative lead is disconnected you still have potential current flow if any hot lead makes ground from a dropped wrench or anything that will complete the circuit."  Just thinking a second ... with the neg disconnected you'd have to be accurate - the dropped wrench/hot lead set up will have to hit the neg terminal on the battery exactly - because the bodywork/chassis is disconnected (remember -  you disconnected the neg lead). And, in Oz, with the flow going from neg to pos, "hot lead" takes on a new meaning.

Sorry ... it was just too funny reading this thread.
You REALLY need to think about that and the circuitry differences and how the current flows. .The circuit is ----positive battery to starter ,current flows into starter then into block then into the negative terminal that is connected onto the engine and finally terminates at  battery.  If that battery is dead or severly discharged and in need of a jump then connecting the jumper leads to the dead battery directly will allow the current to enter the battery first and then be directed to the starter.But since the battery is being jumped ,since it's dead, by being directly connected the battery will take much of the charging current instead of it being passed primarily to the starter if the battery is last in line of the circuit. That is just how electrical draw works .See?  If not I think you guys need to read a few shop manuals on proper jumping procedures.If CHARGING a battery the proper connection ,of course,is to DIRECT connect the charger to the battery for the same reasons as above.

Good Gawd I was wondering if anyine was EVER going to say something about that!!! ;D ;D About time guys! 8)
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »
Oz does use negative ground like in the US don't you? You know ,I guess you guys have convinced me that a negative main switch is a good way to go  ;D 8) 8) ;D  but as for jumping procedure I have to say you need to read up.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2009, 08:03:40 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on May 10, 2009, 06:47:27 PM
Just how sudden are you trying to say this sudden wildly gassing occurs? It takes a bit to occur ya know.

It does take a bit, say a few minutes while you are letting the cars stabilise after starting the dead car... you do let this happen dont you? by that time some gas has started to appear. Would you risk the chance of explosion? Have you seen such an explosion? I have and its quite dramatic.

I think we can agree that it seems our countries have different recommended procedures. If that is the case then we can say that we are possibly both correct in our statements.

Mate, with regards to my embarressing myself, no problem, when Im wrong Im happy to admit such. No embarrassment at all. In this case there is not need to be embarrassed because Im not wrong. And also with regards to needing to do some reading.. I think youll find I dont... as I have already probably read more than most on this subject.

And in closing (at least from me anyway) without reading all the posts made, im not really sure how we got here.. I was trying to make the point that IMO (and my countries racing bodies regulations) ground switch control for emergency use was preferable.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2009, 08:11:18 PM »
Quote from: Artie on edge on May 10, 2009, 08:03:40 PM
It does take a bit, say a few minutes while you are letting the cars stabilise after starting the dead car... you do let this happen dont you? by that time some gas has started to appear. Would you risk the chance of explosion? Have you seen such an explosion? I have and its quite dramatic.

I think we can agree that it seems our countries have different recommended procedures. If that is the case then we can say that we are possibly both correct in our statements.

Mate, with regards to my embarressing myself, no problem, when Im wrong Im happy to admit such. No embarrassment at all. In this case there is not need to be embarrassed because Im not wrong. And also with regards to needing to do some reading.. I think youll find I dont... as I have already probably read more than most on this subject.

And in closing (at least from me anyway) without reading all the posts made, im not really sure how we got here.. I was trying to make the point that IMO (and my countries racing bodies regulations) ground switch control for emergency use was preferable.
No I never have let it "stabilize" No reasoon to.  Yes i have seen a battery explode all over the school principles jeep when I was at Auto Tech School Yes they Do explode dont they?  I agree that a battery needs to have the negative disconnected first to prevent the possible spark. We have not disagreed on that in the least so why are we continuing to discuss that?
Seems to be the case but I still don't know if you guys are negative ground.
And I thank you because I think you guys have converted me to a negative ground switch being preferrable.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2009, 08:13:48 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on May 10, 2009, 08:11:18 PM
No I never have let it "stabilize" No reasoon to.  Yes i have seen a battery explode all over the school principles jeep when I was at Auto Tech School Yes they Do explode dont they?  I agree that a battery needs to have the negative disconnected first to prevent the possible spark. We have not disagreed on that in the least so why are we continuing to discuss that?
Seems to be the case but I still don't know if you guys are negative ground.
And I thank you because I think you guys have converted me to a negative ground switch being preferrable.
Indeed we are negative ground.. I have a suggestion... how about we move on? I think we are agreeing on the important stuff and while I enjoy a good dust up, this isnt a good dust up and its not adding much to our lives....
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Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2009, 08:21:18 PM »
Did you not see THIS? "And I thank you because I think you guys have converted me to a negative ground switch being preferrable."Hell ,you guys swayed me on something.You should be celebrating! It's a rare ocassion!! bb: mm:
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

SPEC

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2009, 09:04:08 PM »
 ff:
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artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2009, 09:05:32 PM »
Quote from: Masterfabr on May 10, 2009, 08:21:18 PM
Did you not see THIS? "And I thank you because I think you guys have converted me to a negative ground switch being preferrable."Hell ,you guys swayed me on something.You should be celebrating! It's a rare ocassion!! bb: mm:
Yeah did see it. As an aussie I dont like to make a scene when a mate admits something like that, its a very personal thing.....  ;)
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artie on edge

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2009, 09:06:12 PM »
Quote from: Spec on May 10, 2009, 09:04:08 PM
ff:

and YOU! get your sorry arse out from behind the couch ya big sheila!
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SPEC

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2009, 09:10:30 PM »
Talk like that might get you smitten
Ya bit of a dill ;D
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Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2009, 09:38:56 PM »
Dill head indeed mate!
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: Battery cut-off
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2009, 09:40:06 PM »
Quote from: Artie on edge on May 10, 2009, 09:05:32 PM
Yeah did see it. As an aussie I dont like to make a scene when a mate admits something like that, its a very personal thing.....  ;)
Feel free I don't mind in the least.At least I don't mind when someone debates something with facts and/or logic. Very cool,take credit !
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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