Author Topic: AR-51 build  (Read 136863 times)

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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2018, 09:42:53 AM »
Well,
It's been a busy year so far and haven't been on here in a while!!  Well I have done a couple things to the car as of lately.
I went from a 10" ebay fan to a 12" Spal curved blade fan, drained my coolant and used some Royal Purple "water wetter" type stuff.  What I used before was distilled water and water-wetter.  I used distilled water per Suzuki.  However that is mixed with antifreeze.  Well I guess distilled water will actually draw minerals out of the cooling jacket and reduce the cooling efficiency?  Well, I now have purified drinking water and that Royal Purple additive.  All things combined, I can run it really REALLY hard in the dunes and it will get up to 210 with a 95* ambient air temp.  I don't push it past that, as I will stop for literally 30 seconds to a min. and it will drop to 190 and stay there under "normal" driving around on the dunes.  Possibly may go to a 4 row Civic rad vs the 2 row I currently have.

I also made some adapters for my bead-lock wheels!  It looks KILLER!  so from going from 8" wide wheels to a 10" wide wheel and 13" wide paddles there is more of a contact patch on the sand.  It really hooks up good now! 

I made some spring adjustments too.  Originally had 300# on the bottom and 250# on the top...WAY over-sprung.  I had 2" of shaft in the body..(LMAO)  I was hoping for 4-5" of shaft in the body..(LMFAO, married mans dream).  I did the math over and over and my simple mind said if you need to drop another 2" cut the poundage in half.  Well, my numbers matched up to the calculations that Downsouth Motorsports came up with.  I should be getting the new coils today.  150 on the bottom with 100 on the top.  This will allow me some pre-load if I needed.  Then I will have to test and possibly some valving.

This car is just too much damn fun!  Not sure if I want to start another build, or do a Busa swap with this car.  Looking at dyno numbers of the 750, bikes are seeing 55# ft of torque at 12k...the first gen busa has that at 2500 rpm...  And this car will pull the front wheels juuuust ever so slightly over a roller at 10-13k RPM.   

Here are some cool pictures!






I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2018, 09:56:08 AM »
Some random pics from this year.





I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2018, 09:58:01 AM »
MOAR!








I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2018, 10:00:24 AM »
Even MOAR-ER










I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2018, 10:01:22 AM »
And then there is this guy... LMAO
My cars bigg-er brother.

I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2018, 10:14:08 AM »
stu 1300 paddles are far better on traction and lighter weight ( as in 6 lbs per tire) than the sand viper chinese 1300 paddle.  doug never said he met up with you there. very nice pics btw!  also those spring rates ( 250/300) are too heavy for my old v6 sand rail.  so that will make a huge change. i do like the large group of rails for sure!
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2018, 10:15:22 AM »
btw....i would go with the zx12r before the busa. just my opinion
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2018, 10:22:08 AM »
yeah, Doug headed this way for a bachelor party on Memorial Day Weekend.  Super fun time for sure, and that car is NUTS!!!

The ZX 12, eh.  What are the pros and cons between the 2 engines?

Also, I will probably look into new paddles next spring.  Rotating weight plays a HUGE factor in the dunes for sure!!

The long travel roundup was a way cool event.  Pretty cool when Blake Wilkey shows up for the event too.  As they took that group picture at the bottom of test hill, he did a huge wheelie across the face of the dune.  Freaking RAD!!

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2018, 11:18:53 AM »
the busa is a good engine! turbo charged even better but that ninja 12r is a beast! it has the rev of a 1000 but the grunt of a busa. carl would be the guy to ask were to get sprockets and such as they are more a bastard spline. i am fully impressed with the 12r and would go that route if it build another bike powered for myself. he has turbo'd his and really wakes them up big wow factor now!
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2018, 05:33:59 AM »
Great points! 
I did some looking for engines yesterday and they are pretty few and far between.  The dyno numbers look really nice too.  Granted those numbers are kinda subjective as they aren't in a sand car but at least they are fairly consistent numbers to look at for reference as the motors are all in bikes for the dyno runs.

Justin

Side note, coils will be going in today.
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2018, 07:26:04 AM »
Deranged,you have built one fine buggy. It is on par with the best of the best. You can/should be deservedly very proud of your creation. I'll differ from ds on engine though. I'm a busa guy since the sky is the limit of their performance and after market performance parts. Nothing wrong with the zx12 though. Any of the super bikes make loads of hp .
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2018, 08:10:14 AM »
Well,
It's been a busy year so far and haven't been on here in a while!!  Well I have done a couple things to the car as of lately.
I went from a 10" ebay fan to a 12" Spal curved blade fan, drained my coolant and used some Royal Purple "water wetter" type stuff.  What I used before was distilled water and water-wetter.  I used distilled water per Suzuki.  However that is mixed with antifreeze.  Well I guess distilled water will actually draw minerals out of the cooling jacket and reduce the cooling efficiency? Well, I now have purified drinking water and that Royal Purple additive.  All things combined, I can run it really REALLY hard in the dunes and it will get up to 210 with a 95* ambient air temp.  I don't push it past that, as I will stop for literally 30 seconds to a min. and it will drop to 190 and stay there under "normal" driving around on the dunes.  Possibly may go to a 4 row Civic rad vs the 2 row I currently have.

I also made some adapters for my bead-lock wheels!  It looks KILLER!  so from going from 8" wide wheels to a 10" wide wheel and 13" wide paddles there is more of a contact patch on the sand.  It really hooks up good now! 

I made some spring adjustments too.  Originally had 300# on the bottom and 250# on the top...WAY over-sprung.  I had 2" of shaft in the body..(LMAO)  I was hoping for 4-5" of shaft in the body..(LMFAO, married mans dream).  I did the math over and over and my simple mind said if you need to drop another 2" cut the poundage in half.  Well, my numbers matched up to the calculations that Downsouth Motorsports came up with.  I should be getting the new coils today.  150 on the bottom with 100 on the top.  This will allow me some pre-load if I needed.  Then I will have to test and possibly some valving.

This car is just too much damn fun!  Not sure if I want to start another build, or do a Busa swap with this car.  Looking at dyno numbers of the 750, bikes are seeing 55# ft of torque at 12k...the first gen busa has that at 2500 rpm...  And this car will pull the front wheels juuuust ever so slightly over a roller at 10-13k RPM.   


I'm sorry but I gotta call BS on that. The simple truth is that there is no better coolant than 100% distilled water. Is there a problem with running pure distilled? Yup,no corrosion inhibitors. That is why it needs at least some antifreeze in it. Water wetter products ,IMO,are just marketing hype and will absolutely not cool any better than water/antifreeze that also provides ample corrosion protection. If a person is having controlling temps it is simply a matter of either too small a radiator or much more likely too little airflow through the radiator due to either radiator placement of crappy,low cfm fan/s. You shouldn't need or really want a 4 row since the extra restriction will basically stop the airflow through the core. This has been hashed over on many,many forums and in written literature for a very long time now. There is a reason why universally 50/50 distilled and antifreeze is recommended in an engine. On a side note 210 is absolutely not an issue. Hell even at230-240 which is perfectly fine for an engine to run at water will not boil if the cooling system is able to hold enough pressure. Here is a chart to show this. SOOOOO,forget the fancy stuff and get you cooling system airflow and system pressure up to par. 

Here is a chart showing the effect of pressure on boiling point . It's just physics. Honestly,don't worry yourself about keeping the water temp to any certain number like 210 or below. Just run enough system pressure to prevent boiling. Easy peasy. The YXZ's I have all run 220-240 all the time as yamaha designed them to do . I know how hard it is to get comfortable with the higher coolant temps but most all new stuff run hotter by design today. I run approx 33% antifreeze in the busa buggy and the same in the v8 with 20 psi caps. No issues at all.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:12:01 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #117 on: July 19, 2018, 09:00:12 AM »
Fabr,
GREAT INFO, and thanks for that chart!  I will be draining my system today and will fill er up with some distilled water and antifreeze.  Ya can't argue with what you have stated at all. 

And for the engines, I agree too with the engines.  I like to have the availability of parts, pieces and whatever may be needed at any given time for an common engine. 

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #118 on: July 19, 2018, 09:16:29 AM »
The zx12 while I love it, can be a bitch.  Odd ball output sprocket spline, crank trigger is odd number signal.  I worked around it all, had computer stuff reprogrammed, dug up parts, made others.  The 12 revs snappy like a 1000 but w more torque.
 
If I was doing another, Kawasaki H2, or H2R if ya can find.  Factory supercharged sportbike. 
The busa is the king of aftermarket support, makes upgrades easier and cheaper.
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #119 on: July 20, 2018, 04:53:08 AM »
I will definitely keep the Kawi in mind.  The numbers look really good for sure. 

A little rear spring update.  I put the new coils on last night and bolted on my dirt wheels to take it for a little spin around a construction site near my house.  WOW!  It feels like riding on a cloud now!  There was a small jump if you will.  Normally if I were to hit something like that, it would kick the ass end up.  Not now!  The valving seems to be pretty good too.  I had it on the softest setting on the clicker and I think I can actually stiffen it up a tad.  I may actually now get a slightly lighter spring for the top on the front. 

The rear, I have 4.5" of shaft in the shock in the rear.  (14" shock using 12" of stroke.) 
The front I have 4" of shaft in the shock with a 10" shock.  Seems like I could go another inch into the shock.  This would level the car out and get that front down a little more.
Below is a picture of how the car sits now, with my lovely assistant behind the wheel.
 

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

 

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