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Author Topic: NEXT!!!!  (Read 23476 times)

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hemi43

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2011, 05:58:52 AM »
Quote from: masterfabr on March 03, 2011, 07:47:15 PM
Tell me more on how the knuckles are made. Do they have a tapered socket to match the BJ's taper or????????

The stub is made from 4140, then welded with high nickel rod to the the body of the knuckle which is made from standard square tubing. I've used square tubing on all the buggys we run, and have had zero issues.
I then machined "caps" that have the proper taper for the ball joints. These then get trimmed and welded to the bottom and top of the square tubing. Usually machining would be after welding, but because I don't want to buy a tapered reamer, I spin the plates on a lathe and cut the taper in that way.
It's really not rocket science, but the single most important thing IMHO in the design is to get the scrub radius correct. I try to achieve around 1/4" inside of the wheel center.
Dan
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 06:01:02 AM by hemi43 »
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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2011, 06:13:20 AM »
The single most important thing IMO is getting rid of bumpsteer. Of course proper scrub radius is right up there with it.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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hemi43

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2011, 11:49:54 AM »
Quote from: masterfabr on March 04, 2011, 06:13:20 AM
The single most important thing IMO is getting rid of bumpsteer. Of course proper scrub radius is right up there with it.
In a racecar, absolutely !! In the dirt it's not as critical. I'll take a buggy with correct scrub radius over a little bump steer any day !! My arms will thank me :-)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 11:52:35 AM by hemi43 »
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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2011, 01:01:03 PM »
I think that scrub is easy to get right and should always be designed correctly. I would not have a car unless the bumpsteer was less than 1/2 inch over 24" of travel. More than one of us here hit near zero bumpsteer over 20+ inches travel. There is a noticable difference in handling when things are right.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

DaveM

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2011, 01:26:58 PM »
The days of falling off dirt bikes is long behind me. The only one that I would even consider, would be a KTM 990 dual sport. But only because that would be an awesome next engine for my buggy. rofl

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hemi43

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2011, 04:16:56 PM »
OOOOOHH!! That Purty !! Looks like it would be a bitch to wax though, with all those nooks and crannies !!  ;)

Quote from: masterfabr on March 04, 2011, 01:01:03 PM
I think that scrub is easy to get right and should always be designed correctly. I would not have a car unless the bumpsteer was less than 1/2 inch over 24" of travel. More than one of us here hit near zero bumpsteer over 20+ inches travel. There is a noticable difference in handling when things are right.

If I had 24 inches of travel, my ass would be underground !!
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rklausbeasty42

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2011, 10:45:59 PM »
like that nice motor
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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2011, 11:34:39 PM »
Quote from: hemi43 on March 04, 2011, 04:16:56 PM
OOOOOHH!! That Purty !! Looks like it would be a bitch to wax though, with all those nooks and crannies !!  ;)

If I had 24 inches of travel, my ass would be underground !!
With lesser travel zero bumpsteer is easy to get. Why not design it in?
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

DaveM

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2011, 09:05:15 AM »
Both of Hemi43's buggy's have zero bump steer, as will mine. Upper a-arm location, suspension travel limits, tie rod location on the spindle, all have to get done before the rack location is determined. The rack height is the last piece in the puzzle. I'll find the sweet spot for it. We're only dealing with 8-10" of travel.

Remember, around here the C in CAD stands for cardboard, not computer.
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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2011, 10:05:31 AM »
+1
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

DaveM

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2011, 04:12:26 PM »
Today's progress.


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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2011, 04:20:57 PM »
WHat angle can those ball joints allow? I really like the design you have.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2011, 04:25:26 PM »
Interesting use of your empties.
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This post has been edited due to content.

hemi43

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2011, 11:00:48 AM »
Quote from: masterfabr on March 06, 2011, 04:20:57 PM
WHat angle can those ball joints allow? I really like the design you have.

There's 12 inches of travel from one bind point to another. I don't know what that translated to into degrees. Don't forget that we build these as narrow as possible, with Dave's buggy being around 55" from one side of the wheel to the other. The cars you guys have should be able to get 20 inches easy.
He's the guinea pig on these joints, so we'll see how they perform. They have to be better than rod ends, because they are a pain in the ass IMHO !! Rod ends wear out too fast, and need high angle spacers to be able to use them as upper and lower joints.
My concern will be the steering effort, because they are much tighter that rod ends.


Quote from: masterfabr on March 04, 2011, 11:34:39 PM
With lesser travel zero bumpsteer is easy to get. Why not design it in?
I agree that bump steer is easy to make zero. Both my buggys can be driven through rough terrain with only your thumb and forefinger holding the steering wheel.
Dan
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 11:04:58 AM by hemi43 »
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Offline fabr

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Re: NEXT!!!!
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2011, 01:08:55 PM »
If you happen to get time it would be nice to get an angle measurement on those BJ's. I agree on the heims being a PITA. Ya,when designed right,steering effort is not an issue. Sounds like we're on the same page.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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