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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: Bug on February 13, 2009, 09:14:27 PM
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Most CV's have a spline on both ends but some have a Flange on one end and spline shaft on the other. Anyone ( someone HAS to know in here ) in here know if you can have that splined shaft machined down, threaded on the end and a keyway cut into it ? ( for a live axle hub on a low powered buggy )
I'm not sure if this can be done because of the hardened shaft material.
Thanks
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Most CV's have a spline on both ends but some have a Flange on one end and spline shaft on the other. Anyone ( someone HAS to know in here ) in here know if you can have that splined shaft machined down, threaded on the end and a keyway cut into it ? ( for a live axle hub on a low powered buggy )
I'm not sure if this can be done because of the hardened shaft material.
Thanks
Just need a harder tool is all... ;D
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Most CV's have a spline on both ends but some have a Flange on one end and spline shaft on the other. Anyone ( someone HAS to know in here ) in here know if you can have that splined shaft machined down, threaded on the end and a keyway cut into it ? ( for a live axle hub on a low powered buggy )
I'm not sure if this can be done because of the hardened shaft material.
Thanks
Many half-shafts have a flange on one end, and a splined shaft of the other with threads on the end. I just bought one for $62.
What exactly are you wanting to do?
You can buy the bearing that fits onto the splined shaft, and use it for the buggy wheel bearing........ It already has a wheel mounting pattern on it. You can change it if you like. I know people have used S-10 and F-150 parts.
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I'm wanting to not use the outer wheel bearing hub assembly because they are so heavy. I want to have the shaft machined down to a 1 1/4 or a 1 " so I can throw an outer bearing on it and then put a live axle go kart hub on it with a 1/4 inch keyway.
I looked at the S-10 setup in the store, HUGE for what I need. Trying to keep it light. Only using a 400 quad engine on this one.
Toyota has a really long outer spline on thier CV's, I wanted to machine that end down for the live axle hub, bolt up to the flange on the inside and save the wieght of the usual wheel/hub assembly. Just an outboard bearing holding the CV against the frame / cassette. I can save about 8 to 10 pounds of rotating mass by going this way. Gotta do it so I can be more versatile with the motor selection. I love quad motors in my builds. Was wondering if that hardened steel can be cut on and threaded ? Thanks
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from my experience nothing is too hard but thats because I have access to ceramic tooling. I dont think what you need to do will be too hard though. Use carbide at least and stay away from HSS unless using low speeds and coolant / oil.
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Thanks Doug, I don't have access to doing it myself though. Asking if I can pay to have it done or will a shop laugh at me when I take them two CV's to have worked. Sounds like it shouldn't be too bad, Thanks
If I ask around and can't find anyone, I might be asking for a mailing address in here.
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and Ill send you my address. I can do them but Im backed up a couple weeks right now.
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biggest problem i see is having a cv with enuff diameter to do it. toyota has a slinky spline sections doesnt it?
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Are you talking abut a stub axle, a cv is nothing like what your talking about. Can you show a sketch of what your wanting to do.......
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Good to see someone else unclear as to what he wants to do.
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Could just make the entire stub axle from scratch if thats all your trying to do. I understand it as he wants to machine down the stub end of a CV joint that does not use a flange mount. Instead it incorporates the CV cage into the stub? Bug is right though. You best be sure that there is enough materail. Hate to end up with a 3/4" diameter shaft just to remove the splines.
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he wants to machine the splines of the wheel side of a cv axle. so its all smooth with just the threads on the end and then a 1/4" keyway cut into it... then he wants to slip a carrier bearing on the shaft and then put a trailer type hub on the shaft that has the 1/4 keyway cut into it. that way he can use the small light low powered wheel hub and not a 15lb automobile hub.. dont see how that was so hard to understand.. just gotta read what he wrote.
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I find it hard to believe you're actually going to save that much weight. Why not do something like this. They bought the hub and bearing and made a sleeve to hold it, then welded the sleeve into their upright or trailing arm. it was simpler and lighter than the full hub assembly but accomplished the same thing.
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I find it hard to believe you're actually going to save that much weight. Why not do something like this. They bought the hub and bearing and made a sleeve to hold it, then welded the sleeve into their upright or trailing arm. it was simpler and lighter than the full hub assembly but accomplished the same thing.
Well considering that he has no access to a machine.......... That seems kinda difficult.
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I would be interested in someone weighing their micro stub housing, shaft, bearing, and hub, to compare to the automotive unit for weight. F-150 bearing is 12 lbs, I believe.
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Well considering that he has no access to a machine.......... That seems kinda difficult.
How do you think he's going to turn down and thread a hardened stub?
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How do you think he's going to turn down and thread a hardened stub?
Well, If he's paying by the hour, it would be cheaper to buy Gear One parts than what you showed. ;D ;D ;D
I did like the parts you showed though.
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I like what I showed too...that's why I stole the pics. ;D the only machining in those is boring the DOM to fit the bearing and two snap ring groves. Two of them could be made in less than an hour. the hub and bearing were both replacement parts that where purchased. It makes a nice compact and fairly light assembly that can be adapted to any type suspention. It also uses vw axles you can buy off the shelf for $60 each if I remember right. Outer cv has stub to fit the hub, and the inner cv is a type 2, but I believe it can be swapped for a type 4. This is what I am planning on using.
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That is a nice unit and easily replacable with off the shelf parts. I would go that route as well.
The type 2 and 4 CVs are the same bolt pattern and even spline, so yes you can interchange them.
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I find it hard to believe you're actually going to save that much weight. Why not do something like this. They bought the hub and bearing and made a sleeve to hold it, then welded the sleeve into their upright or trailing arm. it was simpler and lighter than the full hub assembly but accomplished the same thing.
you can use roller bearings, a crush sleeve and 35.00 alum hubs his way, i see exactly what hes trying to do, Dickstick Kludges hub there is all off the shelf, I have the same setup, and not to fond off how it goes together etc.... The bearing is very narrow, but all narrow means less support and more leverage...
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Cause there a mother fxxker to replace... and as i said they are very narrow.... I replaced both of mine this summer, was noit a easy job by any means to press them in and out while attached to a 3' trailing arm, I will suggest if you do use that bearing, buy a good bearing and not the cheap pos ones... Oh the race tends to extract from the bearing and stick to the hub when they are disassembled, and there a bitch to get off...
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so you're only problem was choice of bearings, not the set up it's self?
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so you're only problem was choice of bearings, not the set up it's self?
No, i used good bearing, as i said they are just a mother fxxker to put together and take a part... If the bearing goes your likely to damage the hub as well, I dont like the setup... Be way better IMO to use a bolt on flanged bearing assembly...You need to use a good bearing, because the bearing itself is only about 1.25" wide, so the leverage from the tire wheel is hard on them...In the car they use zero offset wheels keeping the leverage minimal...
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how much offset are you running? what does your buggy weigh?
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how much offset are you running? what does your buggy weigh?
From specs 800 lbs i think, dunno how accurate, i am running a 10" wheel with 4/4 offset i think...maybe it is 5/3 not sure... I will deal with the bearings, they dont go out like every week or anything, But if i was building something, i sure wouldnt use them... I bent 2 5/8 plates i had holding the trailing arm up in the press before the bearing finally popped, when it did, it sounded like a damn cannon...Then the inner race was stuck to the hub, I cut the race on 2 sides with a torch, had minimal damage to the hub, cleaned it back up with emery cloth... I can tell you if you do go that route, there is two bearings made by federal mogul, one is national i think, and the other in a federal mogul box, both will say made by federal mogul in small print, one says japan, one says china, you guess which is better...
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It's good to hear some first hand experience, but I guess that isn't enough to scare me off. I was planning a three link setup so when the time comes my assembly will be somewhat easier to fit in the press. I am also aiming for 600lbs or less buggy weight so that will help. How long did your bearings last?
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It's good to hear some first hand experience, but I guess that isn't enough to scare me off. I was planning a three link setup so when the time comes my assembly will be somewhat easier to fit in the press. I am also aiming for 600lbs or less buggy weight so that will help. How long did your bearings last?
I ran all summer on the new bearings, and i also have a 3 link setup....
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here, can kinda see it, the front link is still basically a trailing arm...
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To heck with the extra pound, Mine are gonna be bolt on. If there is a problem, three bolts and replace it.
Besides when the housing is welded in, it has to screw it all up. Ask Doug, he final machines his after the welding is done. Good luck with a 3' trailing arm in the lathe. ;D
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To heck with the extra pound, Mine are gonna be bolt on. If there is a problem, three bolts and replace it.
Good luck with a 3' trailing arm in the lathe. ;D
I'd bet it would fit in the mill....
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Actually I think the original reason for the machined sleave was cuz the part the bearings were suposed to be pressed into was a giant cast piece, not the flanged type that bolts on with three bolts either. I don't have any objection to welding a flange on the sleeve and then bolting the whole thing on.
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Actually I think the original reason for the machined sleave was cuz the part the bearings were suposed to be pressed into was a giant cast piece, not the flanged type that bolts on with three bolts either. I don't have any objection to welding a flange on the sleeve and then bolting the whole thing on.
good idear... ;D
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I thought you were trying to save weight!? those inner joints are heavy! I think I got a handle on what you are trying to do. What I learned from my first buggy was that the 1" keyed shaft will not hold up, and neither will the hubs if you are thinking of the same ones I am. I also don't like the three bolt stamped flanges that hold the bearings. I tried them on a 1" axle the first go around and after less than an hour, we had bearings rotating in the flanges and sheared keys. It weighed 320lbs dry and had a 350cc engine for reference. I really think you should take a looke at the VW shafts and maybe even the hub assembly we have been filling your thread up with. I know the shafts will be lighter and I think they cost the same as the ones in your link. I will try to find the specific make/model they are off of.
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I don't think I saw in this thread anywhere but how much wheel travel are you going for and what is the 400cc motor? (cvt or shift? Two or four stroke?
If your looking for light weight scoping craigs list for an independant quad may be the key to real light weight.
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88-92 VW Golf/Jetta GTI axles. driver's side and are 16.25" long from CV center to CV center.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=A1C&MfrPartNumber=667005&PartType=945&PTSet=A (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=A1C&MfrPartNumber=667005&PartType=945&PTSet=A)
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Thanks for the great info, just googled that model CV and came up with some great stuff. preciate all the help and patience. 8)
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I used Jetta vr6 parts. The outer cv is beefier and so is the hub. I think the bearing is still the same. The inner joint was like a modified type 2, wider with smaller balls. Not type 4 though, but the splines are the same. I can get 20* of travel without clicking. They started to click around 22, so I backed off.
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Bugs car uses 3+6 (beadlocks add 1") wheels plus the hubs are not original, they have an integrated 1" negative offset to them so the leverage would be equivalent to 2+7 wheels. Shove the bearing into the wheel more and they will last longer. If using the off the shelf hub, i would probably just replace it with the bearing. I have about a dozen of those steel tubes already machined and another 6' of DOM tube for them if anyone is interested. I can get the half shafts too.