DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Machinery, Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Topic started by: Admin on May 04, 2009, 08:16:44 PM
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Ok, fabber, I know you have the experience here... Is there a specific reason to put a bias ply "trailer" tire on a trailer? Is it only for cost? Is a good radial tire ok...
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This is my slant... radial tyres tend to have a soft sidewall (hence they ride better, more bumps are soaked up), this allows them to flex sideways more as well thus allowing the trailer to 'sway' heap smore than the 'conventional' tyre.
This is from experience, I only last year bit the bullet and took the 'retired' car tyres off my trailer and put proper 'light truck' tyres on, diference in stability was well worth the expense. Much safer under loaded conditions. Also LESS prone to instability from incorrect load distribution, much more forgiving...
IMO ... other will have other (wrong) opinions....
;D ;D ;D
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Are not light truck tires radial tires?
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Now were these SO CALLED TIRE's on your Kangaroo?
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In the US there are ST(special trailer) designated tires that are trailer specific.I will NEVER again use anything else.Go head -ask me why. LT tires are just that-light truck.A variation on the passenger car tire.Stiffer yes but no where near as stable as a ST.
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In the US there are ST(special trailer) designated tires that are trailer specific.I will NEVER again use anything else.Go head -ask me why. LT tires are just that-light truck.A variation on the passenger car tire.Stiffer yes but no where near as stable as a ST.
So In your Opinion i need to get Trailer tires, correct, Is that what burnt a radial tire?
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I've been looking at tires for a while now for my new 16 footer and for the dump trailer I am currently working on. This is my take on things. If you shop around you can find 15" wheels and tires on a 6" rim for $111 shipped. If I go to Menards, the wheel and tire combo is $104?, but throw the tax on that and they are the same price. The difference being the Menards ones are on a 5" wheel and good for 1870lbs or something like that. The internet tires are on 6" wheels and good for 2250lbs or something like that. Same price and the ones off the internet arrive at my door. Trailer tires do perform better than car or light truck tires. I already have a few wheels, but they are starting to fade and get some rust appearing. I figure a new trailer should have new wheels and tires all around. I haven't been able to find just the tires for much less than the combo anyway.
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Some of the BIG tire stores will not put car/truck tires on trailer. Least what I found when I needed a couple bout 10 months back.
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Well i got 4 - 15" trailer wheels, Someone borrowed the trailer and got a flat, there is a brand new 14" tire/wheel combo on there, I can get the 14" tire wheel combos for 86.50 each.. or i can go to the local tire store, he has about 30000 tires in a pile and likely get 4 15" mounted for 100.00.. I think ill just go down and get the 3 new 14" tire wheel combos, From the local trailer store as well fabber :) Ga is well in doubd in trailer manufacturing, I could likley drive and save a few bux but fxxk it... trailer weighs about 1200 lbs maybe, havent weighed it, add another 2500 for the prowler and my car, 18' long, with a lt van pulling it, i am also adding weight dist hitch, Full size 350 chevy van, but its only a 1500... I did indeed notice the tires i took off my van were so many pounds at 50 psi, the new ones i thought were the same tire, good yr something, but they are rated at 35 psi, i notice side wall flex dramaticly, I was termpted to put the brand new tires on my van on the trailer, and put the heavier tires on the van... Pulling my hair out, to many decisions to make... Maybe i need to bake first :)
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Well hell, the local tire store just returned my quote at 65.00 each for the 15" mounted...
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An LT on the trailer you described will be fine. AN ST tire is made with heavier sidewalls that will not flex as much as anLT and an LT will flex less than a passenger tire. It all has to do with weight and vehicle stability.On a large heavy trailer the stiff construction will allow less trailer sway and an added margin of safety.Just remember that with all tires air them to a proper level for the load being carried and with ST tires ALWAYS should be run at max inflation -no exceptions.
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Ya i think im gonna go with the ST anyways... Pulling 850 -900 miles with kids in the car will be cheap safety...
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I agree.
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Put the kids in the trailer they'll love the fun and adventure and you'll love no toilet breaks and loverly pleasant trip all in all :o
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I would like to add that most trailer specific tires and even a larger portion of large truck (semi etc) tires are only rated to 65 mph. This a part of the reason a lot of states have different speed limits for semi's and vehicles towing. Also a LT tire should be within 10% of its max pressure at all times. So a max 80 psi tire should always have 72 plus psi in it. Reason being the extra flex of under inflation can cause the bands to separate and break down the side walls. I got this info from a Goodyear engineer.
I was also told it is not good practice to have bias tires on a trailer if the tow vertical has radials. This induces a wear pattern issue on the trailer tire along with a potential stability issue. Same source.
But all things said you have to have tires rated for the load you are putting on them. I also have to admit to breaking every guide line I shared.
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All the trailer tires I have seen are bias ply... Maybe ill keep looking...
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Put the kids in the trailer they'll love the fun and adventure and you'll love no toilet breaks and loverly pleasant trip all in all :o
Not legal in the civilized world. ;D Of course bug is from the south now....................................... ;)
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I would like to add that most trailer specific tires and even a larger portion of large truck (semi etc) tires are only rated to 65 mph. This a part of the reason a lot of states have different speed limits for semi's and vehicles towing. Also a LT tire should be within 10% of its max pressure at all times. So a max 80 psi tire should always have 72 plus psi in it. Reason being the extra flex of under inflation can cause the bands to separate and break down the side walls. I got this info from a Goodyear engineer.
I was also told it is not good practice to have bias tires on a trailer if the tow vertical has radials. This induces a wear pattern issue on the trailer tire along with a potential stability issue. Same source.
But all things said you have to have tires rated for the load you are putting on them. I also have to admit to breaking every guide line I shared.
Same info I have gotten. Broke same rules also. ;D ;D ;D
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I need 205 75/15 or a 205 75/14 tire/wheel combo..
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Goodyear Marathon I believe is a radial and also comes in that size. www.goodyeartires.com, www.tirerack.com could also be a helpful web site for your search.
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Yup, i am gonna do some searching, I think that good yr tire is well into the 100 range.. Bias plys i can get for around 55-60.00..
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On my old trailer I had some Cooper LT tires and ran them for 2 years before I sold the trailer. They were still going strong. But I never pushed them to their weight limit. Only got to maybe 75% of capacity.
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Ya at 1800 lbs each will net me 7200, Im looking to haul the trailer at 12 and another 2500 in toys... so 3700 lbs... and thats high i think likely closer to 3200..
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Buy the bias for your trailer.It's not very heavy and they will be fine for a very long time.While we're talking about tires.They should be stored on blocks off the ground and protected from sun. Rubber degradation is the worst thing to watch for.Many tires are not worn out.They are AGED out.
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I just called the local guy in town, he can mount 4 Hi Run "Less Expensive Bias Tire" for 230 out the door... Probbaly gonna go that route... And stick with the 15", I will still have a brand new 14" for a spare, Would get me off the side of the highway anyways... 205/75/15's... Probably are Imports i am guessing... Told me right up front they were not top of the line, but he has mounted a lot of them with hardly any warranty work...
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I just looked up some and see there is a B-rated and a C-rated in that size. I did not look up the load rating. I would bet you are getting Bs for that price.
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Im guessing so as well, I think the load rating was 18?? vs 20??...
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Thought I would share an email I got concerning LT tires and ST tires. This is a response I got from Goodyear.
From: goodyear_cr@goodyear.com on 12/04/2012 03:58 PM
Sent by: Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations 728 1144 East
Market Street Akron, OH 44316 Voice #: 800.321.2136 Fax #:
330.796.6829
Mr. Gabel,
Thank you for contacting our web site. You don't "derate" an LT tire when
using on a trailer application. You do "derate" a Pmetric tire if you use
it on a trailer or on a truck. Reason is an LT tire is designed to operate
at max load 100% of it's life. A Pmetric is designed to operate at max
load only part of its life. Rule of thumb is to "derate" a Pmetric in this
type of application by 10%.
If you've had good luck with the Marathons on your trailer, I would
continue to use them.
Jennifer - Consumer Relations
From: dunebound69@neb.rr.com on 12/02/2012 02:06 PM
From: dunebound69@neb.rr.com
To: goodyear_cr@goodyear.com
cc:
Subject: Contact Us request from www.goodyear.com
A Goodyear website user has submitted a request through the corporate
contact form. Please address the concern accordingly.
Name: Gabel, Scott
Email: dunebound69@neb.rr.com
Phone: 4024290388
Address:
7100 Starr Street
Lincoln, NE 68505
Message:
Heard many people say you can use a LT tire on a trailer instead of a ST.
They are saying a LT is better on a trailer than a ST tire. I have always
run the STs (Marrathons). I was also under the impression you had to derate
the load capacity of a LT if put on a trailer. Can you clear this up for
me?
If you are not the correct recipient, please notify the Goodyear Global Web
Operations team of the email error and we will update our website contact
list.
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Wait till that LT causes a serious issue and the story will change when a lawyer tells it. BTDT. I use only ST tires now no matter what. Not taking it in the shorts again.
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Trailer tires are a scam. I have been running LT tires on mine for years. All the trailers that go to Baja get BFG all terrains and brakes on all axles. Have overloaded the shit out of some of them and no problems to date.
The New toy hauler I bought has Goodyear G614 RST 235/85/16 load range G tires on it. Holly hell, I didn't even know they made G rated tires till I got that thing. They are not cheap either. Hopefully they last a while because I'm not really looking forward to replacing them.
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I know on my old "little" toyhauler, loaded wasn't 5000 lb. Had new P tires when I bought it at max 35psi had obvious sidewall flex. Looked like tire was low. Lost 2 tires and slight damage to trailer before I got them swapped to ST's. Always front axle. To finish trip home in middle of night, I slowed to 65 and aired those P to 45psi so sidewalls didn't look half flat. N Ala concrete interstates and the turnpike thru/to Tulsa had some dips and uneven slabs that make your butt pucker when you hit them.
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Trailer tires are a scam. I have been running LT tires on mine for years. All the trailers that go to Baja get BFG all terrains and brakes on all axles. Have overloaded the shit out of some of them and no problems to date.
The New toy hauler I bought has Goodyear G614 RST 235/85/16 load range G tires on it. Holly hell, I didn't even know they made G rated tires till I got that thing. They are not cheap either. Hopefully they last a while because I'm not really looking forward to replacing them.
Scam or not ,you do not want to have a LT tire cause an catastrophic issue on a trailer. In that case YOU put the wrong application tire on the trailer and in doing so took on all liability. I don't care how good that LT tire is,wrong application = you just got fooked in court. That's IF you can even get an attorney to take the case. BTDT.
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i hear both sides but my personal experience i am with master, my last set of st. i ran over ten year , lost 3 last trip bought 5 new ones
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I'm not saying that LT's aren't up to the task. They easily are. It's just that IF something goes to shit,as I had happen, you'll wish they were ST's if YOU are the one who put them on there. If the manufacturer put something other than ST's on it then HIS business liability insurance will kick in , probably,unless he's out of business.......................
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legalities and loop holes that is the lawyers dreams! they are good at it and by changing anything from the sticker or tag on the trailer..........yes you now hold the liability! I know st tires are only rated for 65 mph and I have ran mine up to 80 mph before. this is not a good idea when pulling a trailer but it happens some times. I can see the lt tires having this advantage over st's but still none of us have any business running those speeds pulling trailers or campers , just too many bad possibilities! i have always gone under the belief that st tires are pretty much shot after 5 years and letting them sit for too long will put flat spots in them coupled with age and well I blew 2 in 4 hrs in the middle of the night and those had no signs of dry rotting on the side walls or in between the tread. when they blew they did some damage but no fires luckily. most important thing and the camper and trailer manufactures don't seem to believe in this is install tires rated for your load application or a tad higher!!!!!!!!
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3 of my 4 trailers now have 14 ply rated ST's on them.
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A bit of info.
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.dos (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.dos)
Always inflate trailer tires to the maximum inflation indicated on the sidewall.
Trailer Tire Facts
Trailer Tire Applications
Trailer tires are designed for use on trailer axle positions only. They are not built to handle the loads applied to, or the traction required by, drive or steering axles.
Inflation
Always inflate trailer tires to the maximum inflation indicated on the sidewall.
Check inflation when the tires are cool and have not been exposed to the sun.
If the tires are hot to the touch from operation, add three psi to the max inflation.
Underinflation is the number one cause of trailer tire failure.
Load Carrying Capacity
All tires must be identical in size for the tires to properly manage the weight of the trailer.
The combined capacity of the tires must equal or exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of the axle.
The combined capacity of all of the tires should exceed the loaded trailer weight by 20 percent.
If the actual weight is not available, use the trailer GVW. If a tire fails on a tandem axle trailer, you should replace both tires on that side. The remaining tire is likely to have been subjected to excessive loading.
If the tires are replaced with tires of larger diameter, the tongue height may need to be adjusted to maintain proper weight distribution.
Speed
All "ST" tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.
As heat builds up, the tire's structure starts to disintegrate and weaken.
The load carrying capacity gradually decreases as the heat and stresses generated by higher speed increases.
Time
Time and the elements weaken a trailer tire.
In approximately three years, roughly one-third of the tire's strength is gone.
Three to five years is the projected life of a normal trailer tire.
It is suggested that trailer tires be replaced after three to four years of service regardless of tread depth or tire appearance.
Mileage
Trailer tires are not designed to wear out.
The life of a trailer tire is limited by time and duty cycles.
The mileage expectation of a trailer tire is 5,000 to 12,000 miles.
Why Use An "ST" Tire
"ST" tires feature materials and construction to meet the higher load requirements and demands of trailering.
The polyester cords are bigger than they would be for a comparable "P" or "LT" tire.
The steel cords have a larger diameter and greater tensile strength to meet the additional load requirements.
"ST" tire rubber compounds contain more chemicals to resist weather and ozone cracking.
Storage
The ideal storage for trailer tires is in a cool, dark garage at maximum inflation.
Use tire covers to protect the tires from direct sunlight.
Use thin plywood sections between the tire and the pavement.
For long term storage, put the trailer on blocks to take the weight off the tires. Then lower the air pressure and cover the tires to protect them from direct sunlight.
Maintenance
Clean the tires using mild soap and water.
Do not use tire-care products containing alcohol or petroleum distillates.
Inspect the tires for any cuts, snags, bulges or punctures.
Check the inflation before towing and again before the return trip.
Keys to Avoiding Trouble
Make sure your rig is equipped with the proper tires.
Maintain the tires meticulously.
Replace trailer tires every three to five years, whether they look like they're worn out or not.
Trailer Tire Warranty
The Carlisle trailer tire warranty applies to the original purchaser for three years from the date of purchase or until the tread depth reaches 3/32".
The OE (original equipment) warranty goes into effect at the time of the trailer purchase
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Does anyone actually wear out a set of tire on a trailer. The old trailer had P tires with a higher laod capacity than the ST I put on it. Trailer had max GVW of 7000 and P tire rated at 1875lb ea. Most would think it be good thumb down. I think its the bouncing and lack of better suspension found on a car that causes the sidewalls to flex and seperate. The thing is, you'd think it do same on a car.
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Does anyone actually wear out a set of tire on a trailer.
Yes, it can happen. I hit the curves so hard the trailer fishtails around each corner. The look on the oncoming driver's face is always a good time. Point is my trailer tires wear out like Jimmie Johnson on a 12 lap run at Martinsville. Going slow is for girly men.
Give it a shot, I am confident you will have so much fun you will give up on the whole buggy thing and just start whipping the trailer around mountain roads.
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I plan to switch my trailer to LT tires, but they will support far more weight than. Since my trailer tires always need to be replaced due to age, I will be running the same tires on the tow vehicle and the trailer. I can then buy new tires for the tow vehicle early and always have near full tread. The partially worn ones will go to the trailer and be replaced based on age. The trailer plate says it is 10K, but the axles on it now are 5 lug. I haven't looked too hard, but only seen 5 lug axles rated at 3500 each. I don't load it to 7K anyway though. Maybe somebody replaced 6 lug axles with 5 lug at some point. I picked up a pair of 8 lug 6000 lb axles. With those under there and E rated LT tires, the remaining tire after a blow out won't be so heavily overload and need replacing.
The email from Goodyear would put the liability back on them if you thought it was an issue. If concerned, it would probably be best to use Goodyear LT tires though. Discount tire is very liability paranoid. They sanded the powder coat off the back of my wheels where they mount. They claimed it had to be metal on metal or the wheel wouldn't be straight. I asked if they really thought hand grinding them would produce a surface more true than the thickness variance in the powder coat. I did not get an answer. Now they will have to pound the wheels off with a sledge when the dielectric response from the aluminum and steel locks the wheel on the hub.
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Does anyone actually wear out a set of tire on a trailer. The old trailer had P tires with a higher laod capacity than the ST I put on it. Trailer had max GVW of 7000 and P tire rated at 1875lb ea. Most would think it be good thumb down. I think its the bouncing and lack of better suspension found on a car that causes the sidewalls to flex and seperate. The thing is, you'd think it do same on a car.
I think a lot of this is that car tires get balanced and have shocks on them where many trailer tires do not have shocks and not too many people actually balance trailer tires.
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I plan to switch my trailer to LT tires, but they will support far more weight than. Since my trailer tires always need to be replaced due to age, I will be running the same tires on the tow vehicle and the trailer. I can then buy new tires for the tow vehicle early and always have near full tread. The partially worn ones will go to the trailer and be replaced based on age. The trailer plate says it is 10K, but the axles on it now are 5 lug. I haven't looked too hard, but only seen 5 lug axles rated at 3500 each. I don't load it to 7K anyway though. Maybe somebody replaced 6 lug axles with 5 lug at some point. I picked up a pair of 8 lug 6000 lb axles. With those under there and E rated LT tires, the remaining tire after a blow out won't be so heavily overload and need replacing.
The email from Goodyear would put the liability back on them if you thought it was an issue. If concerned, it would probably be best to use Goodyear LT tires though. Discount tire is very liability paranoid. They sanded the powder coat off the back of my wheels where they mount. They claimed it had to be metal on metal or the wheel wouldn't be straight. I asked if they really thought hand grinding them would produce a surface more true than the thickness variance in the powder coat. I did not get an answer. Now they will have to pound the wheels off with a sledge when the dielectric response from the aluminum and steel locks the wheel on the hub.
Trailer Tire Warranty
The Carlisle trailer tire warranty applies to the original purchaser for three years from the date of purchase or until the tread depth reaches 3/32".
The OE (original equipment) warranty goes into effect at the time of the trailer purchase
If it gets in court I'm betting this will apply. The chances are remote but it happened to me. Just saying. ............
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I think a lot of this is that car tires get balanced and have shocks on them where many trailer tires do not have shocks and not too many people actually balance trailer tires.
Forgot to add that, all trailers that go to Baja also get shocks. With the wonderful pavement down south this really helps give you a little piece of mind. Cuts way down on the sway and bouncing from road joints ledges. We also balance them. Speaking of which, can anybody still get lead weights? The new ones suck ass. This may be something I look for south of the border next time I am down there.
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I'm sure you can still get lead weights in waynoka ok because where they don't have any tires they do have all the equipment to install them lol lol ya i speak from personal experience and if you try the good year dealer in alva ok, don't expect to have any good year brands to choose from! yep no good year st's in stock ever!
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DS do you need tires again?? :-X :-X rofl
Oh also in Waynoka, you can buy cv flanges but not cv boots. bs1
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lol ya that one too carl lol