starters and crank rpm

[dsrace]

https://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Imi_high_torque_starter_for_VW_Volkswagen_p/hitorquestarter.htm


this is what i bought for my rail, it only cranks it over between 225 to 275 rpm according to my data logs. seems slow to me but cannot find anything better for type 1 or 002 style. the 8" clutch may have something to do with it vs porshe style 9" i had in the v6 rail. what rpms are others seeing and does that seem slow to you guys?

[fabr]

Doesn't matter if it starts the engine.  Why,you having starting issues with the E85 ?

[Yummi]

Only takes one successful ignition cycle to fire it off.  Speed is irrelevant.  Think old timey hand crank, lawn mower, or starter. 

[dsrace]

Doesn't matter if it starts the engine.  Why,you having starting issues with the E85 ?

i have cold start issues and it's a fuel issue that will be addressed but was sitting here thinking back about all the other rails sort of remembering they cranked faster. my will not start when it's 50* or abouts. once started it re fires all day as long as it doens't go cold again. it floods in lets say 10 cranks, and i mean floods as in you can pull a spark plug and see it from 4 feet lol lol, fast saw it first hand. now this trip was the first time its been in the cold to even know such a thing. turned the fuel down a bunch on crank but haven't pulled it out of the trailer since we returned to mess with yet. had surgery mon on my wrist and elbow. carpal tunnel and nerve in my elbow. so sitting here staring at datalogs and looking around. was thinking if it cranked a little faster that could help but i do know will have to work on fueling and idle air circuit a bit more.

[fabr]

faster cranking will not help. Flooding on cranking,of course,on cold start is obviously a tune adjustment. Lean that baby out according to engine wants/needs associated with air temps and just give it a shot of unleaded to aid cold start as a last resort if needed. Lots of guys running e85 without high compression need this.Just the nature of the stuff. I know a couple guys that added a drain petcock to the air inlet duct ,near the throttle body to make a convenient spot to easily "inject" a squirt of 91. I will be the first to admit,there is a learning curve to tuning E85.

[fabr]

I will ask though,what are you seeing for cranking compression psi ? If it is lower than about 175 you might entertain the thought that your cam is at least a part of the issue. Regardless of what your static ratio is you still will be able to achieve around the 175 with a cam having the right amount of overlap/lobe center . Any lower and the cold start issue may just be a fact of life.

[dsrace]

i have not ran a comp check to be honest. figured i would get through some sort of break in period. now factory motors are 8-1 comp and i think ( but will have to go look up but really close) 145 psi is middle the spectrum on this engine. i raised mine to 9-1 so should be a little higher

[fabr]

That's the trouble with turbo motors. Run a comp test and post it up when you can. If you have cam specs ,post those as well if you wish.

[dsrace]

dougs stock engine starts in the cold on e85 so i know its a fueling issue but i will take a comp test. also here are the specs on my cam

1989-1994 2.3L Roller Cam Engines

    Lobe Lift
        Intake 0.2381"
        Exhaust 0.2381"
    Rocker arm (cam follower) ratio 1.64:1
    Theoretical Valve Lift @ Zero Lash
        Intake 0.390"
        Exhaust 0.390"
    Valve stem 0.3419" dia

        Valve stem 0.2750" dia

Stock Roller Camshaft Pattern

Lobe Center Separation: 112 deg
Intake @ 0.050:
- Open: 14.5 deg BTDC
- Centerline: 108 deg
- Closed: 21.5 ABDC
- Duration: 187 deg

Intake @ 0.00  lift:
- Duration: 248 deg
- Lift: 0.390"

Exhaust @ 0.050:
- Open: 30.5 deg BBDC
- Centerline: 116 deg
- Closed: 21.5 ATDC
- Duration: 189 deg

Exhaust @ 0.00  lift:
- Duration: 250 deg
- Lift: 0.390"

[dsrace]

not going to try anything for now as i have only one hand and it's in the camper still. so i can say that enemy reduced inj pulse from 10 ms to 2 on cold crank but i wonder if we need to add air via air valve control. it did help but didn't solve no cold start but don't smell raw fuel near as much with the first few cranks.

[dsrace]

started dougs rail up this am and it started right up on e85 but it was 74* today lol on another note i shortened his coaxial cable 10' and still kills his ignition. i'll have to do a little more looking. mine is a 60 watt and works great with no ign issues.

[fabr]

started dougs rail up this am and it started right up on e85 but it was 74* today lol on another note i shortened his coaxial cable 10' and still kills his ignition. i'll have to do a little more looking. mine is a 60 watt and works great with no ign issues.

Everything starts well at near perfect temps..................... When you get to where you can,do a compression test ,then ,if you have the equipment,a leak down test. I'll look into what I see in the cam specs that might be a factor in this beyond a tune issue at that point. The cold start (below 50 or so)tune is probably the most problem at this point .

[dsrace]

with my rail the cold start below 50* is the only issue aside from gearing lol actually aside from gearing i was very happy iwth the performance of my rail on the last trip! the tune does need more work but after a cam , turbo and larger volume fuel pump swap what doesn't    was talking to enemy about his thought as i just got the rail out of the th'er last night.  my ecu does a prime pulse on inj's upon key on so we are going to shut that off and see what it does. it would not start yest am after cranking it approx 10 times and 2 trys so prob 20 cranks combined. i pulled a vac port and sprayed one shot ( just one shot) of carb cleaner directly into the upper intake. cranked 4 times and fired right off like a flooded engine finally catching up and starting. i do need to do a comp test as i would like to know. i believe the rings should be seated by now on this new engine. pretty damn amazing how much bottom end i now have with the 94 ford ranger roller cam i installed!

[fabr]

with my rail the cold start below 50* is the only issue aside from gearing lol actually aside from gearing i was very happy iwth the performance of my rail on the last trip! the tune does need more work but after a cam , turbo and larger volume fuel pump swap what doesn't    was talking to enemy about his thought as i just got the rail out of the th'er last night.  my ecu does a prime pulse on inj's upon key on so we are going to shut that off and see what it does. it would not start yest am after cranking it approx 10 times and 2 trys so prob 20 cranks combined. i pulled a vac port and sprayed one shot ( just one shot) of carb cleaner directly into the upper intake. cranked 4 times and fired right off like a flooded engine finally catching up and starting. i do need to do a comp test as i would like to know. i believe the rings should be seated by now on this new engine. pretty damn amazing how much bottom end i now have with the 94 ford ranger roller cam i installed!

Not trying to be a dick but I get SOOOOOO tired of this BS of how long it takes for quality rings to seat. If the cylinders are round to within .0005"/taper to within .0005" and bore taper to within.0005" the damn things seat in the first trip down the bore. This is absolute fact and all ring people will verify this fact.  Same goes for rod/main bearings. If the engine was finish sized by a by a modern precision shop there is absolutely no break in period for rings or bearings. End of story.Now, when it comes to every other moving/rubbing part in the engine well,let's just say many are ill manufactured and others do realistically need wear mating in of mating components. Couple easy run through the gears/dyno pulls is all that's needed though.

[fabr]

On a side note,I've done so many leak down tests in the last 35 years I can say I have a handle on cylinder sealing. 20 years maching race blocks for a lot of guys that demanded low,low leakdown rates on new engines of no more than 5% with conventional ring packages. Less yet for no gap top rings. To achieve this the rings need perfect sealing,the valves must pass a vacumn test of zero leakage and of course the head gasket must be perfect. Sooooo,if everything is so perfect,why is there any leakage? It's that little,bitty +/-.030 ring gap. That doesn't do anything but get bigger. FAST.  Only .0005 wear in the bore or ring face wear of .00025 will open up end gap approx.0015 depending on bore size. Soooooo,even if the rings were leaking anything and actually needed seating in time,the benefits would be negated by the opening up end gap.