Chinese buggys

[Baloo]

so you knowlegable chaps tell me about these buggys from china, the joyners kinroads etc,  everyone here dismisses them as cheap copies and prone to breaking as soon as you sit in them, is the same view held over there ?    and what exactly fails on them is it the frame design or welding on the frame, the drive train, exploding engine or gearboxes that strip gears  or is the non availability of spare parts ?
whats wrong with them ?

does anyone on here have one ?

Andy

[fastcorvairs]

so you knowlegable chaps tell me about these buggys from china, the joyners kinroads etc,  everyone here dismisses them as cheap copies and prone to breaking as soon as you sit in them, is the same view held over there ?    and what exactly fails on them is it the frame design or welding on the frame, the drive train, exploding engine or gearboxes that strip gears  or is the non availability of spare parts ?
whats wrong with them ?

does anyone on here have one ?

Andy

Same here Joyner's are junk. Haven't heard about the Kinroads. Some one else will chime in on that one.    X-18 use to be junk but some one took it over and I think that it is a good car now. Supposed to be all 4130 and nice welds now and built to race. I have look at them at the SSSS and was impressed.

I know that the welds on the Joyner's are trash as is the metal in the tubing.   

[Yummi]

Rucky cat says: If you buy one, it wont take too rong before you figure out it sum ting wong. De not fuh kin su pah.   Run, don't wok away as fast as you can. 

[Baloo]

so not much actual hands on expirence of a chinese buggy then, well nor me till l bought one 
l know l know what was l thinking l must have been on ebay at a vunrable time 
l sold my honda pilot a few months ago and have managed to keep the money aside till now, l knew if l dident buy a new toy the money would just get used up on the everyday things and another toy would be lost forever 

before l get into chineses built stuff heres a few pics,  it is way faster than my old pilot but then it would be with a 1000cc engine, it will easily out corner the pilot but then it has a proper diff where as the pilot dident and always pushed on, it will seat 2 big fat gits with ease and the pilot only took one  and its fully road regestered l can drive it where ever l want, is that green stickered over there ?





thats how it came, l removed all the stickers and lost the hideous front winch mounting frame,
made anew light weight front bumper and set about covering it in orange vynl 







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpxz1zyUJdY&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4OP1R42di0&feature=plcp


we can get round to build quality in a bit 

[fabr]

tell more..................

[Baloo]

tell more..................

well fastcorvairs sums up just about everyones view about chinese buggies, joyner=junk, everyone will say cheap copy, but a cheap copy of what ? its dosent look much like a sxs ?,

anyway lets go back in time  a few years, its not that long ago that all japanese stuff was viewed in the same way  , cheap copy was the way all there stuff was decribed in particular motor bikes  once upon a time the motor bike races at the isle of man tt races would be dominated by british, italian etc bike not a sign of a jap bike in fact they were laughed at and when they turned one year mooching round the pits taking photos of the current machinery "  dont worry about them they couldent make a bike to save their lives" was often heard around the paddock ( have seen this on documentries on tv)   2 years later they were back and wiped the floor with their new machines 
the japanese0 then refined their designs and marched onward with super bikes,
if you did a poll over on MBN on engine choice how many non japanese bike engines would be in the mix ? and yet they were universally considered cheap inferior copies,  how did we go from cheap nasty copies with no hope of being any good to the engine of choice thats well respected ?

they did the same with cameras and lots of other items.  copy and then improve

heres some reading on the history of honda in motor bike racing

http://vf750fd.com/Joep_Kortekaas/honda_race_history.html           several pages long


could it not be that china is the new japan  laughed at now but in the future

things have definatley moved on the first joyners had small domestic made engines that went pop and you couldent get spares, reverse was selected with a plastic arm/lever that soon broke ( but at least they had a reverse )  and they were made from small diameter thin wall tube with tabs for suspension arms etc in single shear etc,  well not anymore look up joyner now and the 2 engines are 1100cc and 1600cc and guess who's engine they use ?  good old henry ford    the ford CVH engine went out of production with ford a little while back but its now being made in china, dont know if they bought the manafacturing rights or just knicked them lol but ford spent plenty of time developing  and testing that engine before producing millions and millions of them,  gearbox ? well thats a VW item as found in golf/rabbit and passat  good reputation ??  anyway the up shot is if your joyner engine box goes kaput there will be plenty more down the breakers yards available cheap ?, l will get you some pics of my frame  it appears to be 32mm tube  with a 3mm wall and in important areas it steps up to 5mm (3/16),  all the suspension tabs are 3mm folded sections





so things have move on in china, a good proportion of honda motorbikes are made in china not just parts but the whole bike then shipped to japan where they put a honda sticker on and we all buy them thinking nice stuff this japanese made kit 

l am not trying to make out chinese stuff is of great quality more l was thinking about how market forces work  and history repeats itself as countries develop and become market leaders and then fade away again as new countries emerge

so in ten years time you will all be riding round on RZR look alikes that are twice as good and half the price 

[fabr]

Baloo,you just said what I've been saying for a very long time. Problem is that it always starts out as junk knockoffs,progresses to outright counterfeiting after others have spent the time and money doing R&D,then actually making a quality,reasonably cheap,product and finally putting the originators out of business. There's just something wrong with that pic to me.
 On the other hand ,if anyone is so blind to not see that all it takes is an ISO9001 certification and any factory in the world can produce a very high quality product. That includes Chinese factories. So ,what I'm saying is that the cost of labor prevents a fair playing field. It doesn't prevent quality products. Ala,Japan,Taiwan,etc..

[fabr]

I have NO idea but many of the engines in China and many other outright counterfeit/copies of everything under the sun come from Chery.
http://cheryengine.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008830697655/Homepage.htm

[fabr]

 

Chery Company Profile
Business Type

    Manufacturer

Capital

    US$500,000,000 to 999,999,999

Total Annual Sales

    US$1,000,000 to 1,999,999

No. of Total Staff

    3,000 to 3,499
 

[vidio1]

Looks funny with the steering wheel on the other side.......I'm not sure why but it just never occurred to me that there would be something other than an American version of a Chinese cart....

[Baloo]

that about sums it up Master,  the copies start of crap, gradually get better, and eventually end up better than the original,  you are right it dosent sound right but l dont know what anyone can do about it ??
we also dont know if cherry is copying other engines or buying the rights to manafacture along with the tooling from companies who think their life span has finished ?  big difference there ??  what did Ford do with all the old tooling from the line that made the CVH engines ?  did they smash it up or sell to the highest bidder ?   hind sight would suggest you should smash it up the balance sheet might say sell it all ??
there was a problem with the textile/knitting industry over here, as times became hard companies ran out of work and had machines sitting idle, they could sell them for 5k or smash them up and weigh them in 1k,  most sold them for what ever they could get and then hundreds of new bussiness started in peoples garages knitting like crazy with no overheads, that put the final nail in the coffin of the big boys , should have smashed the knitting machines up, they might still be here selling stuff   

dont know how l got onto knitting 

[Baloo]

Looks funny with the steering wheel on the other side.......I'm not sure why but it just never occurred to me that there would be something other than an American version of a Chinese cart....

yes we have the wheel on the RIGHT side along with Aus ,japan and a few others, l think joyners were left hand drive only originally which means they must have been aimed at you guys 

[fabr]

 Small example of what you were saying.-----I think.
http://www.autospecschina.com/our_work3.html

[fabr]

yes we have the wheel on the RIGHT side along with Aus ,japan and a few others, l think joyners were left hand drive only originally which means they must have been aimed at you guys 

YUP! LOL!!!!!

[fabr]

yes we have the wheel on the RIGHT side along with Aus ,japan and a few others, l think joyners were left hand drive only originally which means they must have been aimed at you guys 

A FEW agree the right side is the right side. Damn ,that sounds stupid.