DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Toy Showcase => Topic started by: dave b on February 09, 2010, 03:09:20 AM
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Hi its been a while since i posted anything. Here are a couple of pics of my build so far, i have to thank Doug for the parts he sent me. This is buggy no: 001, I used a 140A Arc welder, not the easiest way to start but got the job done. I have been building for just over a year and am on the home straight. I will finish my reverse box next week and then I can start to assemble! I am using a 2000 TL1000R for power, mounted transverse, this gave me loads of room in the engine bay to fit the reverse box, as well as giving plenty of room for the exhaust.
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Well,hell! Looking really really good. Don't be shy,keep the pics coming. Nice job!
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Awesome! I love seeing all of those parts I sent being put to good use! Did you see the pics I posed of your next order comming together? 8)
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Sweet! How does the transverse engine drive the rear? Or is the engine made with a 90degree drive?
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It's looking really nice Dave! Just one suggestion... Unless you want you pretty legs to look like my arms and shoulders from welding, I'd get some pants on Buddy ;) These scars I have aren't going away anytime soon and even worse than the ones on my arms are the ones on my foot. It's easy to have happen too. A little molten metal goes down you shoe or boot and you CAN NOT get them off fast enough.
Moral of this story... Always wear the pants in life, this includes when you're welding ;D
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BTDT LMAO more than once. I'm a slow learner ya know! ;D ;D
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In the pics I have seen so far (slow dialup loading. WHEEEEE)
His legs are below the table but still.
What I would worry about is the child standing there. Even if the child watches for only four or five minutes the kids arms might be toasty red with flash burn the next day.
Cover the kid too! All of them. Every square inch! I would cover your arms too. It can get pretty painful!
I often get it on the bottom of the front of my neck if not wearing a low helmet or tall THICK shirt. The stuff (burn) will get you right thru a t-shirt even if you do it long enough. I try to wear heavier stuff even when its hot in the summer.
Builds looking nice. Interested to see more of the reverse setup.
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Hi Guys thanks for the encouragement ;D the motor is coupled directly to a 90 deg bevel gear box, with the input and two output gears in constant mesh. output shaft (free floating) has a dog selector for F-N-R between the two output gears. This configuration is strong and compact. 2-3% loss on gears and 2-3% loss on bearings, with 130Hp to start should be OK. Reverse is essential for where we will ride. On the welding story that is not how I normally weld, I use a leather welders apron and gloves rofl the kids wanted to see what it looked like through the helmet.
I will be posting a few more pics next week.
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Awesome! I love seeing all of those parts I sent being put to good use! Did you see the pics I posed of your next order comming together? 8)
Yes thanks Doug looking good. you've been busy thats for sure!!!
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Wow your's has come on Dave Looks good mate! ;D You've gota be happy with that! That's the same oil cooler I used. ;) How tall are you Dave 6,2?
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Thanks, I am mounting the fan in front of the radiator and oil cooler behind. Oh and No...kids are really short, only 6 foot. but my mate is 6,3 and fits in fine.
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Yeah I'm 6,2 and I was a bit worried I wouldn't fit in, but I got into the Piranah I built with a bit extra added to the cockpit, the top bars were a bit close though.. eyes
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here are a few pics of my mates workshop.This is where we will build the two new cudas Doug is busy with. Can't wait to finish and go riding I think I've watched every video out there! keeps me going.
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when you told me you had the machining capabilities I had no idea it was as extravagant. Good on ya! I am finishing up your order very soon my friend and then she will be on its way. 8)
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Quit holding out on us, we would like to see this 90 gearbox F-N-R thing. Ok atleast I would. NICE shop, Doug makes some cool azz stuff and it looks as if you could too.
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when you told me you had the machining capabilities I had no idea it was as extravagant. Good on ya! I am finishing up your order very soon my friend and then she will be on its way. 8)
Thanks looking forward to it, just need to get my one finished now.
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Hope to have it finished by the end of the month ;D
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Hi Guys got a few more pics, finished referb on the motor, fitted one side panel and finished the fuel tank I will fit it this week. Started cutting the gears for the 90 deg reverse box, they look massive in the pics but will loose a lot of weight in the coming weeks. trying different paint combo's to see what i like, I think i will stick to Blue Black and Silver.
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It's looking good Dave! I can't wait to see those gears put to use in your gear box. I'm excited to see how it works. ;)
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Did a bit of work over the Easter holidays got it on it's wheels for the first time ;D
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Dave,
Looks like you have been busy, and it's paying off. So when do you think you will have your F-N-R box in? I want to see it :o
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I LOVE that shifter linkage idea.
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I think we all what to see the FNR idea! Great progress Dave.!
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Thanks guys the guy doing the FNR box has been away, we will get it onto the mill this afternoon and get the casings done, hope to have it by next week. I will take pics as we progress.
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Looking good Dave, ya getting there mate! I like the look of the drive line bits ya had made there! Very sturdy look'n! I can't wait to see how you do the FNR box, should be good! 8) You've obviously checked out the fan to see if it's a sucker or blower, in terms of mounting it on the front of the back...
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I want it to blow through the radiator then the oil cooler, this should help protect the radiator? I have been busy with the brakes and have finished the hard lines, will post pics soon. Next is the dash and the electrics.
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Yeah that's where I'm at with mine eyes and I ain't make'n too much headway drowning!
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the small things seem to take forever!
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;D
It's the little shit that kills ya and makes the buggy look bad...
Looks great tho...just be patient and it will turn out as planned 8)
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Dave, The car looks good. I have a FNR gearbox that I believe is like yours, only smaller. It looks like what you described. It is a Spicer out of a lawnmower I believe. The 1st picture is the outside of the box. The large sprocket is the input. The small is the output. The shaft with the plates is the shifter.The 2nd picture shows the pinion, the ring gears and the shift collar. The collar is keyed to the output shaft. It engages one ring gear for forward and the other for reverse. The other pictures are different views. Hope yours works as simple as this one. It is used in my kids mini rockcrawler buggy. Tim
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Hi Tim, the idea is exactly the same. ;) My input - output ratio is 1:1. The output shaft has two carrier bearings and the output bevel gears have their own supporting bearings, there is a 0.25mm clearance between the bevel gear and the output shaft (bevel gears do not run on the output shaft) to reduce the internal friction and bearing speeds.The output shaft is splined between the bevel gears and the dog engages the drive, as seen in your pics. We are going for strength and reliability.
I dont want to get stuck down in the valley with no drive. I'll put some pics up soon.
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here are some pics of the gears and shaft ;)
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Looks good Dave ;) not too long now! ;D
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Looks great but how ya shifting it. I understand the concept but .....................................
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nevermind.... I missed a post.
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Looks great but how ya shifting it. I understand the concept but .....................................
The input shaft needs to be machined this will give room for the selector dog witch slides between the output gears, the one selects forward the other reverse. ( the dogs on the gears still need to be machined )
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AHA! WHat engine are you using again ?
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Suzuki TL 1000R,...... should be enough to push me along. :)
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What's the reasoning behind the 1:1 ratio?
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i just thought to keep the same output speed as the motor and then use the sprockets to change the final ratio to the wheels.
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Will that bevel setup make a lot of thrust trying to disengage? It would seem to me based on the tooth contact angle that the thrust against the shift dog is going to be quite high.
Nevermind
You are moving the output shaft side to side and the case is holding the gears in place?
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IMO the reduction in the chain is a great idea as you will be able to run a longer chain and not deal with the short chain issues.
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Now I'm confused, could you post a sketch of your engine, fnr, rear carrier? I'm just trying to figure out how they are mounted in relation to each other.
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Now I'm confused, could you post a sketch of your engine, fnr, rear carrier? I'm just trying to figure out how they are mounted in relation to each other.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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kick kick kick :-*
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;D ;D ;D
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been busy with the trailer while the exhaust was made, here are a few pics
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Wow you have been busy! Hurry up with that trailer... you will need it for your big box comming in! 8) 8)
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Yes cant wait ;D
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Looks good Dave! ;D
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Ok Guys here is a pic of the F-N-R box ;)
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Are you gonna be using ball bearings?
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You noticed that too?
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Yeah I was all like, damn, them axial loads are gonna be motherf%$&ers. I'd be fitting HUGE tapered rollers.
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That'd be my opinion.
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yes all deep grove four point ball bearings ;), the bevel bearings are rated up to 36KN of force and are good for lateral loads at high speeds. the input shaft is supported by two bearings and the output shaft by 3. The bevel gears run on one bearing each, the driving bevel gear is also supported by the output shaft via the selector dog. This arrangement reduces the frictional losses by quite a bit.
The loads have been worked out on paper, but the real world will be the proof of concept. there is enough meat to increase the size of the bearings if we have reliability issues later. ;D
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Are the bearings you're using expensive compared to say, wheel bearings out of an F-150?
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No not too bad $8.90 each :)
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Well, that shuts me up.
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Time will tell.
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hi guys I can see that there is an air of uncertainty on the design of the F-N-R gearbox, mainly the size and type of bearings to be used. lord only knows that I almost made a mistake once rofl but as you said time will tell .......dam I hope I am right!!! :-\
here are a couple of pics of the progress so far
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Looking good!
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I found a couple more pics my wife took
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some more pics on the F-N-R gearbox
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NICE!
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Dang Dave that's trick. Nice work. Mite have missed it but what is going to keep the pinon gear from wanting to lift and push? Is that going to be a double bearing arrangement?
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Yes double bearing on the pinion with a cap ( not in the pic) , making progress..... all the gears and shafts will go to hardening this week. then we will work on the casing and the caps.
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selector dog in place F-N-R
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Look what just arrived thanks Doug!! ;D
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Now all you need is your big box!
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Dave, that FNR box is looking trick buddy. ;) I can't wait to see it in action. How much time, and $ do you have in that FNR box by the way.
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finished my trailer now i can get the cuda home for finishing. ;)
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done some more on the small stuff
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Dave, that FNR box is looking trick buddy. ;) I can't wait to see it in action. How much time, and $ do you have in that FNR box by the way.
most of the time was in designing about 3 days, machining about 6 days so far. all in the box will be about $1500.00 - $1700.00
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Wow Dave that's look'n cool bud, you've done a top job there good on ya!!! ;)
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Started the teardown, just finished the gearbox mount. frame will go in for powder-coating this week, then assembly ;D at last !!!!!!!!!
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Looks cool. That's A LOT of shaft overhang on the front sprocket however. Are you going to outboard support it?
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yes the end caps are not on the box in the pics. the out-put shaft is supported by 3 bearings the last being 10mm from the end of the spline.
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frame stripped down to get powder coating
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Well before you go to PC I'm going to throw in my 2 cents on the FNR box mount. IMO,unless you have added to it,the mount will twist under load. That twist will lead to chain misalignment and likely broken chain woes.If you haven't done so already I'd reinforce it to prevent any possible twist ,even minor,in the "post" that mounts the FNR.
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I would paint it myself first for a while but if your SURE its good the PC I suppose.
Just my thoughts on PCing it right out of the gate.
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Well before you go to PC I'm going to throw in my 2 cents on the FNR box mount. IMO,unless you have added to it,the mount will twist under load. That twist will lead to chain misalignment and likely broken chain woes.If you haven't done so already I'd reinforce it to prevent any possible twist ,even minor,in the "post" that mounts the FNR.
I understand your thoughts on the twisting, the box will be braced to the frame close to the sprocket.
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Assembly begins ;D
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Looks good Dave, it's a bugger look'n at the thing think'n ya finished then ya hafta pull it all down and have it powder coated, then put it all back together again eyes then hope ya don't have a prang.. eyes eyes
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LMAO ;D yes I know ....but at least it looked good at one point!
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F-N-R box with end caps
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Looks good Dave!! I've seen one bloke copying it already! Wont be long there'll be thousands just like it!
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Thats great ;D if he needs any help just tell him to get in touch.
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Wow what a guy! I know some blokes would pissed off, even though they put photos up in a public forum so people can see it! eyes But seriously did you see that design somewhere else and copy it, or is it yours?
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Not sure if its where Dave got the idea but a lot of outboard boat motors get reverse in the same manner.
Inboards to maybe? But I have seen several outboards apart and thats what they did to spin the prop the other way.
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Oh OK I just haven't seen that sort of thing before, but I have led a sheltered life rofl rofl LMAO but seriously it's a good idea and well done, and well thought out!! ;D
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Thanks ;D it's the most compact way to keep the drive train in line with the fewest moving parts.
my buggy will be tested for the first time next week end. CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!
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Wow what a guy! I know some blokes would pissed off, even though they put photos up in a public forum so people can see it! eyes But seriously did you see that design somewhere else and copy it, or is it yours?
I used the design (as was correctly pointed out), from an outboard motor and made it fit into the space created by mounting the V-twin motor horizontally. this allows for the motor to be mounted in the center of the frame and moves the mass of the motor forward by about 200mm.If anybody wants to try this setup I will be happy to help them ;) .
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Yeah that's a kind offer and I'm very interested to see how you go with it! ;)
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Nice and compact. Proven design in it's original application. In a minibuggy I think it will work out just fine. If it gets used in a heavier mid size buggy though I might have a few concerns with the bevel gears. I think it will be just fine in the application you are doing. Good job!
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Nice and compact. Proven design in it's original application. In a minibuggy I think it will work out just fine. If it gets used in a heavier mid size buggy though I might have a few concerns with the bevel gears. I think it will be just fine in the application you are doing. Good job!
A couple of relatively minor changes'd probably make it work. Hypoid bevel gears and tapered roller bearings and it should be capable of holding up to some pretty serious horsepower and torque loadings.
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Thanks for all the input, this is the first box I have done and I have slightly over-engineered it, all the calculations for the torque requirements have been done, but the only way to see if it will last is to put it to the test witch I hope to do next week end. ;D
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Good luck with it Dave! Let us know how you go! ;) Should be fine...
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At last here it is complete :)
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Cool Dave looks good mate! What is that rod comming out of the top with the, (I think it's a brass disc at the base?) Ah is that for the selector FnR?
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Yes that is the selector ;D I had a problem with the slave cylinder for the clutch so have not yet mounted the box. The electrics are finished and final assembly going well. one question the CV's are clicking when I turn and push the buggy, do you have any words of wisdom for me?
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Yeah check you have them on the right sides! ;)
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Hi thanks for all the help on the Cv's, the "clicking" went when I clocked them. well I had my first shakedown run on sunday ....... :o ;D. That Tl1000R has some balls!!. the F-N-R box held up well... :). I was driving on grass, it gave excellent traction, so much so, that I bent the lower rear A-arms the rear wheels are now toe in. I have some pics. it was quite rough with a couple of bumps and with the wheels leaving the ground then biting under full throttle it was a bit too much for the A-arms. Luckily I have a set of Mr Heims A-arms witch I will gusset to strengthen.
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Look'n good Dave! ;)
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Man that v-twin is skinny when turned sideways. Sweeeeet!!! Glad to hear about the fnr working out, hopfully it will continue too.
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Good go Dave. FNR looks good bolted in there. What's the wall thickness on them rear arms? Looks like a ton of fun for sure.
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Good go Dave. FNR looks good bolted in there. What's the wall thickness on them rear arms? Looks like a ton of fun for sure.
I stuck to the original plans from EDGE
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Awesome looking machine Dave!
On the A-arms, please dont put too much more confidence in my arms than yours, Reason I say that is not because of the workmanship, but the design. I run trailing links to stiffin the rear suspention on all my personal cars. Definatly gusset them though!
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Just thinking outloud here.
Being the reverse box is built the way it is can it run equally well in either direction? Load wise? I see no reason it cannot but asking.
Everyone likes the easy adjustability of gear ratios of chain but with that FNR gearbox it looks like it may be pretty easy to wipe the chain out of the picture and make and enclosed gear set to the rear axle.
If only two gears were used from how it is now to the axle the gearbox would have to run in reverse. But if three were used to get the geardown then it would still run the same direction.
Also if it would do reverse equally as well as forward it might lend itself to a rear engine application if somone wanted that.
I'm done... :P
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<<<< thinking and I like it!
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just finished with the gussets on the rear A-arms I will fit them tonight.
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Hi it's been a while since my last post I have been having fun driving the buggy. I also have had a rather scary moment when the left front brake caliper broke off. I have modified the front brakes and fitted the 6-pot calipers from the TL1000R donor bike, as well as increasing the size of the disks to 200mm diameter x 5mm thick. I have also fitted a GL Pro gear indicator with TRE, here are a couple of pics of the mod.
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holy shit balls! you werent kidding that caliper broke off! thumb down Does it look like a bad casting?
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Looks like tire clearance would be doable to put a simple brace like this too? (Very crude drawing but gives the idea)
Even a small brace out there would make for big strength increases I feel. Still be able to adjust the heim if needed.
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holy shit balls! you werent kidding that caliper broke off! thumb down Does it look like a bad casting?
Hi Doug , yes the casting was porous, can't see until it breaks.
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Looks like tire clearance would be doable to put a simple brace like this too? (Very crude drawing but gives the idea)
Even a small brace out there would make for big strength increases I feel. Still be able to adjust the heim if needed.
Yes I looked at that too but I did a double gusset, the centre one is at the bottom of the tubes and the two outer ones are at the top of the tubes to create a box effect. it seems to have done the trick.
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I have put a couple of videos on to youtube under cuda210
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Post their links here. Not gonna take the time to look up the stuff there...............................
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LA-Z Ass :o
http://www.youtube.com/user/cuda210 (http://www.youtube.com/user/cuda210)
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Thanks Doug ;D ;)
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What is up with the yellow light blinking on the dash?
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LA-Z Ass :o
http://www.youtube.com/user/cuda210 (http://www.youtube.com/user/cuda210)
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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What is up with the yellow light blinking on the dash?
Caution light for when you going too slow!! rofl rofl
Buggy looks nice, really like the V sound. Going to re-read the FNR box stuff once again. hmmmm
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What is up with the yellow light blinking on the dash?
Thats the reserve fuel light, it's a problem but i am getting used to it ;D
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Caution light for when you going too slow!! rofl rofl
Buggy looks nice, really like the V sound. Going to re-read the FNR box stuff once again. hmmmm
Yes was slow but very dusty, if you want any info on the box, no problem.
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Well just a short update, took the buggy out for a ride on saturday and sheered off the six (inboard) bolts that give drive to the left rear wheel ??? I noticed that Doug has made a mod the the aluminum hubs that bolt to the Cv's, Keying them and not just relying on the bolts. Has anyone had a similar experience? I think the bolts must have come loose for them to shear off. :( here are a couple of pics )
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Dave b
What grade of bolt are you using? Those bolts don't have a shoulder on them and most low grade five and below are like that. I would think that those bolts should be at the least a grade eight or better. If they had worked lose they would show sign's of wear on the threaded area where they go Thur the hub from bashing about from side to side.
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The bolts in the 1st picture look as Fast describe, all thread. The 2nd pic, that bolt looks like the correct type. Grade 8 + and remember loctite is buggy builds best friend.
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I will replace with better and bigger bolts some more pics
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Owie! Yes use Grade 8 SAE bolts not to be fully threaded. Cant say I have expierenced this or know of anyone who has. I designed my locking hubs to take the turbo busa thinking this may be a weak spot. I also increased the bolt pattern slightly and changed the size of the bolts from 5/16-NF (8mm) to 3/8-24. Might look into that as well.
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Maybe a rev limiter too. rofl rofl rofl rofl
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I'll just set the limiter to 3500rpm that should help ;D I am going to increase the size to 10mm HT dome head bolts that should hold ;)
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Holy crap Dave :o you didn't do it by a half measure did ya! Man I have never seen that happen before... Ah well ya live and learn huh. 8) Oh the buggy looks good and ya can't beat the sound of a big Vtwin ;D
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Hi I finished the repair and took it out for a test ride on saturday, here are 3 videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQajNxPlDgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfzDqKEz-z8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfzDqKEz-z8)
It seems to be holding up well :)
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NICE Dave I'll bet ya proud of it! ;)
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Cool!
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Thanks guys now if only I could get the sound right ??? the GoPro shields the sound too much, maybe the slotted door? Any suggestions ?
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Thanks guys now if only I could get the sound right ??? the GoPro shields the sound too much, maybe the slotted door? Any suggestions ?
Dave
I drilled a small #30 hole in mine and glued a piece of foam inside it did not make much difference. I don't think your going to get much better with out stepping up the the new HD. I seen one on there site the other day for $189.00 that's the best price I've seen on the HD yet.
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I've got the HD one :( it seems to transfer the sound through the roll cage, I put two pieces of rubber between the
pieces and that helped a bit, maybe a exhaust type rubber isolator ? its a pity GoPro don't have an external mic
I will try the slotted door
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You're a talented guy Dave, I'm sure if you weren't too concerned about the warranty, you could crack that baby open and replace the internal microphone with a mic input jack, and then fit a shielded vibe isolated mic anywhere you want on the car...
Soldering iron and a drill bit is all you need...
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Not a bad idea ;)
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Hi Guys been a while ....... Just a short note to let you know all is well and been riding a lot, just come from some forest riding where I managed to bend the lower front a-arm after hitting a hidden tree stump. stripped the buggy and repairs are nearly done. the F-N-R box is holding up well and has been stripped 4 times to check, so far so good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e56R164ExwU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e56R164ExwU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLhYaOkAD8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLhYaOkAD8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMlJ-x2dvq0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMlJ-x2dvq0)
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Awesome mate. I am impressed, particularly with that FNR! Wow. Nice!
Have you considered making some more to sell? I would be very interested in one (or two)!