DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => "AP" General Discusion => Topic started by: dsrace on June 02, 2009, 09:47:28 PM
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I have a few pics of the camp grounds at syracuse while I was there over memorial weekend. I did not take any pics of the sand, well just because there really isn't anything to take pics of but vegetation! there is only about 10 hills ( small dunes ) to ride on that are open and free of grass and sage. basically 1/8 th the open sand the LS has. I do think in 5 or so years when they get the green gone however they can it will be a very nice alternative to LS but until then if you don't live very close don't bother unless you want a nice place to take a jeep or other offroad truck. I am glad I did go just to see it. they could use about 500 rock crawlers or other offroad trucks to come in and wipe everything out. I did have a good time down there though, the poker run in the jeeps after dark was great and what little sand they do have open was fun. the sand is just like nw nebraska, packed on top but once you break through it's more like baby powder. I did manage to snap my tranny while I was there so I am still in the process of removing it to send off to shane to get it fixed. I am making change to the rear skid plate and adding cutting brakes for the trails then I will send it to the powdercoaters to finish it finally.
here are some pics of the camp grounds and my transaxle.
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more pics
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more pics
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transaxle pics
not sure yet what let go on the back of the transaxle to shove what ever into the nose cone and split it like that. I do not mount my transaxle by the nose cone either but rather by the case. I will know what happened next week or so!
I can tell you that right before it broke I was riding wheelies off the top of a dune and accidentally caught about a foot of air and landed still in a wheelie so I mashed the throttle to hold it up and ride it out. did that about 3 times then found a jump I wanted to hit kind of like a stair step but before I hit it I wanted to check out the top so I was climbing the hill when I head this snapping noise and shut it down fast!! I couldn't go forward because the transaxle would lock up but I could go backwards just fine. so I had to be pulled backwards over the dunes by a jeep with swamper tires on over three dunes from the middle of the park basically. were as that was a rush hoping dunes backwards I don't want to do it again!!!! :o ;D
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Owie. :'(
Sorry to hear about it.
Get her fixed up soon and fill us in on the cause.
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ds looks like its time for some powdwer coat. Our is that your new chia pet! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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This thread has been "pruned" . I did it. Previous comments are not needed . Syracuse is a small town riding area that has potential but IMO not the way it is being done.DS put up pics and members can make their own decision as to whether it is a good pace to go or not. If anyone wants the "scoop" please do so in PM's. fabr
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ch ch ch chia ch ch ch chia ;D ya after the 3 rain storms I hit coming back with the rail on the open trailer it does look like a chia pet! and it is going in for powder coat.
to all those that have never been to syracuse, I did enjoy my trip down there mainly because of the friends I met up with down there. never really matters where you end up as long as there are good friends and good food or atleast good drink!!!! ;D
as far as the riding goes there is not enough sand open for rails in my opinion for a 7 hr drive! there are power and water sites for camping but not to many and plenty of primative. the pics of the gravel pit pond are of the middle of the parking lot which is on the se corner of the camping areas. the park is across the street from there. for a local place it's not bad and after they get all the grass and sage off I think it would be a nice alternative. I will say this the town of syracuse is far far nicer, cleaner and more up to date than waynoka.
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there are power and water sites for camping but not to many and plenty of primative.
DS
Where did they have the power and water? When I was out there They had two porta pot's and that was it. You had to go into town to get power and water. We stayed at the the guys place that runs the local body shop on the main drag out of town. He had ten lots set up for 20 bucks a night with full hook up's.
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DS
Where did they have the power and water? When I was out there They had two porta pot's and that was it. You had to go into town to get power and water. We stayed at the the guys place that runs the local body shop on the main drag out of town. He had ten lots set up for 20 bucks a night with full hook up's.
here are two little maps the one of the park is the one they have for visitors and the other is one I drew, ya my hand writing sucks. everything on the north and north east side of the gravel pit is primitive camping. I camped in the primitive because I assumed that memorial weekend would be busy so I left the big trailer home. at the peak of the weekend there couldn't have been more than 70 people there! that part I really liked. ;D ;D
just so everyone is clear I am not posting the pics to promote this park just some pics of when I was there braking my toy. if you live fairly close it is worth checking out but if you live a distance away you might want to wait a while or go for the day then drive another 4 hrs to LS, someone told me this before I went and I didn't listen I wonder who that was :-\ ; ;). it was fun once for now but they have a long way to go before it is anything like LS but for the locals they have a blast!
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the purple rail in the above pic is one I converted out from beam to a-arm for the former owner about 2 -3 years ago. the new owner was there with the rail so I got a chance to talk with him. I saw a few a-arm conversion someone is doing locally, we won't comment on that one! guys what do you think of the gas tank up front? I didn't make the tank but modified it because the owner wouldn't/couldn't move it. so he left me no choice but to blow a hole through it to connect the steering shaft. I said this will get real ugly if you rupture the tank with that shaft but I was out voted. I am surprised no one has commented on it yet. that front end conversion kit was the old style design the new ones look like the front of my rail or enemy's.
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here are two little maps the one of the park is the one they have for visitors and the other is one I drew, ya my hand writing sucks. everything on the north and north east side of the gravel pit is primitive camping. I camped in the primitive because I assumed that memorial weekend would be busy so I left the big trailer home. at the peak of the weekend there couldn't have been more than 70 people there! that part I really liked. ;D ;D
just so everyone is clear I am not posting the pics to promote this park just some pics of when I was there braking my toy. if you live fairly close it is worth checking out but if you live a distance away you might want to wait a while or go for the day then drive another 4 hrs to LS, someone told me this before I went and I didn't listen I wonder who that was :-\ ; ;). it was fun once for now but they have a long way to go before it is anything like LS but for the locals they have a blast!
Hmmmm,I wonder? ;D ;D ;D
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Fuel tank? yeah! To be honest I didnt notice it.
Personally Im not in favour of it but each to his own I guess. I cant see how the shaft will ever rupture the tank and I guess these things dont hit trees that often... if they do they are WAAAAYYYY lost.. ;D A rupture would dump the fuels straight onto the sand? Not run back to the cabin area? Either way... I still dont like it..... :-\
Just doesnt 'seem' right to me. I have seen a car with two tanks, one either side of the driver and navigator, that didnt 'seem' right either but it was race legal. :police:
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A tank under the seat seems foolish also but many are built that way.When it really is considered tho there's no place really safe for the tank considering the flimsy way most are constructed,mounted and such. A FuelSafe container($$$$$$$$$$$$) is the best option and then mount it just about anywhere you wish.
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I just re-looked at that picture...I didn't know what that was till you said something...I guess it puts more weight on the front tires ;D
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Fuel tank? yeah! To be honest I didnt notice it.Personally Im not in favour of it but each to his own I guess. I cant see how the shaft will ever rupture the tank and I guess these things dont hit trees that often... if they do they are WAAAAYYYY lost.. ;D A rupture would dump the fuels straight onto the sand? Not run back to the cabin area? Either way... I still dont like it..... :-\
Just doesnt 'seem' right to me. I have seen a car with two tanks, one either side of the driver and navigator, that didnt 'seem' right either but it was race legal. :police:
I pre-fer my tank in the rear. one thing you should know is that the reason the rail came to me in the first place is because a buddy took it out after a few and lawn darted it so hard ( with a stock beam ) he bent the right wheel around and into the frame caving it in. the impact also pushed the main two tubes (that run through the frame back to the torsion housing) back so hard it bent the torsion housing into a shallow V and down a little. they took it to a frame machine and had it straightened as best they could and then brought it to me to cut the front off and convert out to a-arm. this I why I said the steering shaft could rupture the tank!
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I just re-looked at that picture...I didn't know what that was till you said something...I guess it puts more weight on the front tires ;D
it's funny you mention that spec. the original owner had a local guy change the pulleys on the supercharger to add an additional 5psi of boot on that 3800 engine. he said it would wheelie to easy with the play cut 16.50's on the back so with a full tank of fuel ( I think 10 gallons ) it balanced out real nice.
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A tank under the seat seems foolish also but many are built that way.When it really is considered tho there's no place really safe for the tank considering the flimsy way most are constructed,mounted and such. A FuelSafe container($$$$$$$$$$$$) is the best option and then mount it just about anywhere you wish.
I have always thought that some kind of mount that would eject itself ( and shut off the outlet ) in a rollover would be the way to go.
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Your point is taken.... I think everyone who knows me on here knows I am a safety advocate (a tad extreme sometimes), we HAVE to build safe machines (for ours and our passengers sake), but where do you stop? If my car was as safe as technology could physically make it, it would probably weigh as much as a Leopard tank.
Given the scenario youve just described, the guy who commisioned you is a silly bugger. He's had the front crumple happen and STILL didnt relocate the tank...
"Rules! For the guidance of wise men and the control of fools". (was prolly 'Big Brother' who coined that phrase...)
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Your point is taken.... I think everyone who knows me on here knows I am a safety advocate yep (a tad extreme sometimes), we HAVE to build safe machines (for ours and our passengers sake), but where do you stop? If my car was as safe as technology could physically make it, it would probably weigh as much as a Leopard tank. yep
Given the scenario youve just described, the guy who commisioned you is a silly bugger. He's had the front crumple happen and STILL didnt relocate the tank... I agree that's why I said I was out voted. lol
"Rules! For the guidance of wise men and the control of fools". (was prolly 'Big Brother' who coined that phrase...)
never heard that phrase but I do like it!
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just an update, here is what happened to my transaxle! it's the pinion gear. I got cheap and left the oe R&P in the transaxle, well it just wasn't strong enough! so now it's at shanes awaiting parts for repair. it will now be all weddle so the only thing left vw is the vanagon main case, 091 bell housing and input shaft. weddle said that the oe vw 457 R&P was only 25% weaker than theirs so I gave it a shot but for what theirs cost it better not brake, time will tell. here is a pic.
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Ouch!
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Hiya Ds, I cant help but notice the irony... the text under your avatar.... sorta fits here dontcha think? ;D
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Bewdy Artie, well spoted. That's a smite ;D ;D ;D
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Hiya Ds, I cant help but notice the irony... the text under your avatar.... sorta fits here dontcha think? ;D
that's funny! where I am sure several have noticed it you are the only one to comment on it. Ya I got a case of the cheapy's and it bit me in the back side. but the built transaxles as well as the top end ones are all still a weak point in a build. I have abused a stock bike tranny far far worse than this built 091 and never broke one but once again there are other variables to it each case.
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I abused one of these for 5 years in a heavy car without a single failure. The thing was set up by an old german guy called Ron Schmidt and he used mainly Albins bits in it. I pulled it apart at the end of each season and reraced it but never replaced a single major component.
Does yours have the torque plate sandwiched between the casing and the bell housing? Its sole purpose was to stop case flex and keep the ring and pinion alive. Seemed to work in my casing.
Removing all slop from the shift fork tongue and grooves improves shift quality but its still crap.
Good luck.
and a ps..I was using a 1200cc nissan engine so it wasnt like i was firing huge HP figures through it either... that prolly help,,, ;D
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I abused one of these for 5 years in a heavy car without a single failure. The thing was set up by an old german guy called Ron Schmidt and he used mainly Albins bits in it. I pulled it apart at the end of each season and reraced it but never replaced a single major component.
Does yours have the torque plate sandwiched between the casing and the bell housing? Its sole purpose was to stop case flex and keep the ring and pinion alive. Seemed to work in my casing.
Removing all slop from the shift fork tongue and grooves improves shift quality but its still crap.
Good luck.
and a ps..I was using a 1200cc nissan engine so it wasnt like i was firing huge HP figures through it either... that prolly help,,, ;D
thanks for the info! the parts I had that broke were stock vw probably from 1976 but now have all weddle, however I don't know about the tq plate and will now have to ask. my motor ( 3.8 ltre 3800 series II ) is supposed to be 215 - 225 hp and 250 tq at the flywheel with the cold air intake and headers. what did your 1.2 litre put out?
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also I run 33x12.5x15 at offroad tires and I am more aggressive in the dirt than the sand solely because I know the terrain better. but I do like to jump and ride wheelies quite a bit, on both dirt and sand but at the dunes I love to run through the whoops full bore!! for now I will have to hold back a little more till I get another bike rail built.
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Good luck keeping your foot out of it :m :m :g :k
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Good luck keeping your foot out of it :m :m :g :k
lol ! no respect no respect! this last $1400 bill has made me a changed man I tell you!!
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lol ! no respect no respect! this last $1400 bill has made me a changed man I tell you!!
Ds
Are ya going to sleeve the pinion bearing bore? That could have saved you in the first place. That pinion looks like it wanted to move away form the ring gear. A steel sleeve would help that from happening. IMO. Mindeola and Mega Sand both use a brass bar that rubs on the back side of the ring gear just opposite of the pinion. Just like the old Chevy spicier rear ends.
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lol ! no respect no respect! this last $1400 bill has made me a changed man I tell you!!
If you insist. ;D ;D
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my motor ( 3.8 ltre 3800 series II ) is supposed to be 215 - 225 hp and 250 tq at the flywheel with the cold air intake and headers. what did your 1.2 litre put out?
To be frank, I have no idea. A lot for a little engine, but we countered for the lack of torque (the real villan..) by spinning it up to 10K rpm.
It was a class rule, and there was a set engine build that worked and all in the class used. Therefore it was well developed before I came along and was well proven. I just used it as well and didnt ask questions (yeah I was younger then....)
The recipe was a nissan A12 engine block and crank (steel), A14 cylinder head, Hepolite pistons, forged rods (forgotten the brand), cam and solid lifters, 2 webbers, exhaust x size tubing exactly this length..etc etc etc .. thing zinged like a two stroke....
Never balanced the first engine..... just built it, modded it and ran it....for years... freshened each season... so NO IDEA how smooth it could have been had it been balanced....
Still got it laying in bits around the place.... poor lil thing..... 8)
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To be frank, I have no idea. A lot for a little engine, but we countered for the lack of torque (the real villan..) by spinning it up to 10K rpm.
It was a class rule, and there was a set engine build that worked and all in the class used. Therefore it was well developed before I came along and was well proven. I just used it as well and didnt ask questions (yeah I was younger then....)
The recipe was a nissan A12 engine block and crank (steel), A14 cylinder head, Hepolite pistons, forged rods (forgotten the brand), cam and solid lifters, 2 webbers, exhaust x size tubing exactly this length..etc etc etc .. thing zinged like a two stroke....
Never balanced the first engine..... just built it, modded it and ran it....for years... freshened each season... so NO IDEA how smooth it could have been had it been balanced....
Still got it laying in bits around the place.... poor lil thing..... 8)
sounds like a buggy motor in the making! what do you think?
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Ds
Are ya going to sleeve the pinion bearing bore? That could have saved you in the first place. That pinion looks like it wanted to move away form the ring gear. A steel sleeve would help that from happening. IMO. Mindeola and Mega Sand both use a brass bar that rubs on the back side of the ring gear just opposite of the pinion. Just like the old Chevy spicier rear ends.
damn ya gotta love all the good info on this site, I have yet to find this kind of info anywhere else!!!!
I don't know about the sleeve but I am going to call and find out today. thanks for the info and it all makes a difference. that plate artie meantioned isn't listed in the weddle catalog but if you call and ask about it they do have it. I wonder how many other trick little items they have no one knows about because they are not listed in the catalog?
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Yep I agree, seriously, those guys have probably FORGOTTEN more than most will ever know about 091's.
I dont know them myself but I have dealt with Charlie Albins back when he was just another racer buildings trans that we finally didnt break.... man he knows his stuff, Im assuming the Weddle team are the same.... I likey.... 8)
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Ok got some info on the 091, the plate that artie was talking about they do have but the owner of weddle says that some swear by it and others don't think it makes a difference. he says he just leaves that one up to the consumers and builders but didn't say it was a needed part. just so everyone knows it's $80 and 1/4" thick, you will have to space you tranny mounts 1/4" farther apart but doesn't affect flywheel, clutch or starter posistioning. the sleeve fast corvairs talked about is for when the bearing housing has lost it's tolerance and needs to be sleeved, mine has not in this case and last but not least the brass pin is only on the big trannys that you meantioned, there is not enough material in the side case of the 091 to support that pin. I was told that the pin rides .002 off the ring gear but I didn't think to ask what happens if you hit it. does the pin eject so you know it's been hit or does it just simply file it off until the next time and how would you know unless you tear down every season. In my case this doesn't apply but I am still curious? I still wonder how many more little secerets there are on the 091's that aren't offered but they have the parts for? it's one of those cases where you have to know the right question to ask!
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Artie on edge 9025 smites!! what have you been up to?
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So true way too often.
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Artie on edge 9025 smites!! what have you been up to?
Gotta laugh huh? Mate, just (to quote fabr) "feelin tha luv man....." b:1
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I'm not feeling it so much now that you have a bit of a lead on me.LOL!!!!
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Ok got some info on the 091, the plate that artie was talking about they do have but the owner of weddle says that some swear by it and others don't think it makes a difference. he says he just leaves that one up to the consumers and builders but didn't say it was a needed part. just so everyone knows it's $80 and 1/4" thick, you will have to space you tranny mounts 1/4" farther apart but doesn't affect flywheel, clutch or starter posistioning. the sleeve fast corvairs talked about is for when the bearing housing has lost it's tolerance and needs to be sleeved, mine has not in this case and last but not least the brass pin is only on the big trannys that you meantioned, there is not enough material in the side case of the 091 to support that pin. I was told that the pin rides .002 off the ring gear but I didn't think to ask what happens if you hit it. does the pin eject so you know it's been hit or does it just simply file it off until the next time and how would you know unless you tear down every season. In my case this doesn't apply but I am still curious? I still wonder how many more little secerets there are on the 091's that aren't offered but they have the parts for? it's one of those cases where you have to know the right question to ask!
Ds
I don't agree with them on the fact that the sleeve is only needed when the case egg's out. Read my lips. I have build allot of 002 and 091 trans in my day and all that I put the steel sleeve in lived much longer then the ones that didn't. The steel sleeve keeps the pinion from flexing sideways when the power is on. The pinion is always trying to move away from the ring gear under power. The more support you can give it the better. I always would set the pinion deeper into the ring gear also. The reasoning in that is as the pinion moves the ring gear side way's the pinion will want to move back also. That way it would keep more of the pinion teeth on the ring gear longer.
To clarify the brass pin thing, it is set a thousand or so from the back of the ring gear. As the pinion tries to move the ring gear side way's under load the pin acts as a rubbing block for support. The pins are threaded on there od with a locking nut so you can keep them adjusted accordingly.
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It is apparently ring gear flange deflection thenthat causes R&P issues in the mendis? Apparently the case is strong enough if the pin works to stabilize the ring gear. Why don't they just make a better diff or spool? Do the pins wear and need regular and/or adjustment often? I don't know these things and need educated.
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It is apparently ring gear flange deflection thenthat causes R&P issues in the mendis? Apparently the case is strong enough if the pin works to stabilize the ring gear. Why don't they just make a better diff or spool? Do the pins wear and need regular and/or adjustment often? I don't know these things and need educated.
Master every thing is running in 90 weight oil so with a few thousand of and inch clearance then the brass pin will go a long time before any real adjustment. The only time it has contack with the back side of the ring gear is when under extream loads. It's main job is to transfer the load to the main case. Keeping the ring gear from moving back, The stock 091 ring gear is not large enough to accommodate a flat surface on the back for a large brass pin to run on. On all the Mendie's and such the ring gear bolts are all in broad of the dia enough to allow for the brass pin. And there is plenty of meat on the case for the threaded boss.
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gotcha!
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DS post pic of the new housing.
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also I run 33x12.5x15 at offroad tires and I am more aggressive in the dirt than the sand solely because I know the terrain better. but I do like to jump and ride wheelies quite a bit, on both dirt and sand but at the dunes I love to run through the whoops full bore!! for now I will have to hold back a little more till I get another bike rail built.
The other thing DS forgot to mention is that his was catching 15 feet of air on a motocross track the weekend before. :o :o :o Which surely over stressed the stock R and P which broke at Syracuse the next time out. But with all that said the stock R and P will still take alot of abuse before it breaks. With weddle gears in it, the next weak link was the OEM R and P. 8) 8) 8) 8)
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I do agree with DS and Master, that place has potential, but they have not done any improvements to the dunes to remove all that sage brush. That's what Deano and me experienced in August of 2008 and there was no open sand! It's a fast way to destroy a set of paddle tires. 8) 8) 8)
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The other thing DS forgot to mention is that his was catching 15 feet of air on a motocross track the weekend before. :o :o :o Which surely over stressed the stock R and P which broke at Syracuse the next time out. But with all that said the stock R and P will still take alot of abuse before it breaks. With weddle gears in it, the next weak link was the OEM R and P. 8) 8) 8) 8)
yes 15' to the top of the cage is true. I made 8 consecutive jumps that afternoon with 4 different passengers so between the 8 jumps that landed on flat dry clay everytime I was between 8' - 10' off the ground below my tires according to 4 eye witness's. so I would have to agree that probably didn't help ;) ;) but pulling a wheelie and jumping into the air while in the wheelie and then landing still in the wheelie and gunning it to ride it down the other side finished it off! :o ;D which of course was the following weekend.
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Your point is taken.... I think everyone who knows me on here knows I am a safety advocate (a tad extreme sometimes), we HAVE to build safe machines (for ours and our passengers sake), but where do you stop? If my car was as safe as technology could physically make it, it would probably weigh as much as a Leopard tank.
Given the scenario youve just described, the guy who commisioned you is a silly bugger. He's had the front crumple happen and STILL didnt relocate the tank...
"Rules! For the guidance of wise men and the control of fools". (was prolly 'Big Brother' who coined that phrase...)
The quote is 'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.' - Douglas Bader. It's my sig on The Edge Products forums...
Bader was a bad-arse English pilot, there's a book (and movie) about him called 'Reach for the Sky'.
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yes 15' to the top of the cage is true. I made 8 consecutive jumps that afternoon with 4 different passengers so between the 8 jumps that landed on flat dry cylay everytime I was between 8' - 10' off the ground below my tires according to 4 eye witness's. so I would have to agree that probably didn't help ;) ;) but pulling a wheelie and jumping into the air while in the wheelie and then landing still in the wheelie and gunning it to ride it down the other side finished it off! :o ;D which of course was the following weekend.
Go big or go home right!!
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Go big or go home right!!
hell yes! I figure it's what I built it for so why not. unfortunately the motocross track I was jumping on before the trip is right next door in my neighbors back yard! he dedicated 5 acres to it and he has a 500 two stroke built of course that he has to pin in 3rd to clear the triples!! the temptation to ride that course is just to great for those of us with out too much self control. rofl the course was made for bikes and most of the corners are too sharp for rails but I only have to back up and straighten out on 2 but it's that table top that needs to be longer for the rails ;D it's still a rush! :o ;D