DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: LiveWire on June 27, 2011, 08:25:24 AM
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It has been pointed out that for as many people think the Honda transmission behind a Busa sounds ideal, there seems to be little comments of results with people running them hard.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/driveline/15354-honda-transmission.html (http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/driveline/15354-honda-transmission.html)
Hi Al The Honda motor driving these trans run anti-clockwise ,that is why they use them
Chris
I ran one off these Civic Box's behind my Busa
Started off with a chain drive Had an input shaft failure
Overcome that then it became Chain failures sprockets too close together too short a chain and cooked it Could only do 2 laps of a race
Overcome that by setting up a gear drive Used 3 gears out of an R1 box I had lying around This worked fine But generated a lot of heat again
So I fitted an oil pump driven off the gear drive which drew oil from the gearbox through an oil cooler then into the geardrive case and returned back to the box
Finally had the drive line to the civic box sorted
Started to show promise had a diff with steering brakes ,had a reverse and had 3rd 4th and 5th gears in the box to use as ratio changes
I stripped out 1st and 2nd gear as I believe wernt strong enough for the abuse about to be inflicted on it
Took it out for a nother race meet
Confidence was building then BANG stripped 3 rd gear Thats ok select 4th gear off we go again a few more laps You guessed it Bang goes 4 th gear Select 5th which didnt last much longer
So after hours of work shelled it all out and now have 4 well used Civic box's piled up in the corner
NEXT !!!!!
Sorry cant post any pics at the moment
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Sorry to hear that but I have had,as most know,reservations about it. Regardless, I never like to hear of hard work not panning out.Was it a normally aspirated or boosted busa I wonder.
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I've seen some of these rice burners puttin 400hp thru these boxes. And they seem to get by with them. The nail in the coffin is the shock loads from rough terrain (whoops).
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Ineed to see the use those got. Bet it's actually pretty mild.
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I've seen some of these rice burners puttin 400hp thru these boxes. And they seem to get by with them. The nail in the coffin is the shock loads from rough terrain (whoops).
I have too when I had a Cobalt SS. But let them wheel hop for a split second and see how long they last. LMAO The stock Cobalt would break axles like tooth picks with only 205hp when it wheel hopped. I never heard of it happening in a Cobalt, but can only imagine the trans would break sooner or later.
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Oops,assumed he meant the rice burning busas.
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I've seen some of these rice burners puttin 400hp thru these boxes. And they seem to get by with them. The nail in the coffin is the shock loads from rough terrain (whoops).
400hp is old news. Lot's of Honda guys running 600+ nowadays.
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WHo cares if it's 600 HP and not used like we do ? Not trying to be an ass but really our application is much more abusive than anything the street can throw at it EXCEPT for wheel hop. As mentioned earlier the Honda trans does not like that. IF you really use your ride hard I have always had my doubts of it surviving.
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Rice=street. Wheel hop bout like whoops. Load unload load unload breaks crap. The accord and prelude seem to have beefier gears but still were not meant to be driven by enemy. ;D.
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I'm starting to come to the conclusion that some people around here think I'm hard on stuff ???
I luv you guys rofl
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I too have read the responses on MBN but without video and some good pics to see the setup is sound it does not mean much.
A little flexing and the input will let go. Once a piece is broke it could have taken out the rest.
Not enough info there to really know much.
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Agree with Nutz. I saw the bearing outside but didn't notice outside support. Little twist of input shaft gears separate teeth go missing. Running inline or with a cvt ???
I hoping for breaking crap power soon. Just a little seat time was like sniffin a white line. Hooked need more can't get enough.
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What cracked me up was the one guy used the throwout bearings guide for a BEARING SUPPORT. Even after he beefed it up it was NEVER made to carry a side load! And the way he beefed it up did nothing for strength. Certainly nothing near the loads it was seeing!
Therein was his failure start. Once started it was over.
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I'm starting to come to the conclusion that some people around here think I'm hard on stuff ???
I luv you guys rofl
Your the new DTS breaker of shit SPIDER MONKEY
I OFFICIALLY GIVE YOU MY TITLE
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hp means nothing in this case, what really matter is what kind of tq is that trans rated for? that's just for starters and ya wheel hop will kill most but that is the pounding offroad will give it after all. the woops are hell on components but still a step below landing with you foot in it or running balls out through the chop after a busy weekend!
enemy you deserve that title more than I LMAO rofl LMAO
mr 5th gear wheelie!
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Hi Gents Chris here answer to some questions
Its a std Busa running through the Honda trans
In Minibuggy Forum I have posted a breif description and photo's of the set up
I'd be confident to run the final set up behind say a 600 GSXR Buggy weighing in @ 400 Kg's (880lbs)
Its a hard game we play What should break doesn't and what we believe is bullet proof drops it's guts all over the track
Chris
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Good to hear from you White dragon
Welcome to DTS
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Its a hard game we play What should break doesn't and what we believe is bullet proof drops it's guts all over the track
Chris
Thats for sure rofl While a busa or any bike motor makes way less torque than the honda that it was bolted too, putting it in a buggy for dunes/desert is like rev'in that civic and dropping the clutch all day. It wouldn't last either. There is one(or was) in a turbo busa over on MBN on his 3rd season. See if I can find.
Welcome whitedragon, those pics/step were nice. Really liked the gear setup.
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Thanks 8)
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The throw out bearing support was not designed for continual side load, but it does have to handle some. When the clutch disk is not centered, it puts strain on the support until things align. That load is bending. Adding the support on the outside now puts the load in double shear. If things are mis aligned, it will tear things up, but you can't tell alignment from pictures. I think if there was mis alignment, it would be tearing up the gear drive from the motor to the trans. I think the work that was done looks fantastic. Even with double shear, the shaft could be bending between the bearings causing a mis-alignment. A way to get around that is to put a coupler like a lovejoy in there and make it so all the side load is on one side of the coupler with the input shaft connected to the other. So even more work and money to try and get to something that might work. The question before was if Arrowhead was abusive enough to give one a good test. Arrowhead also was not having the chain issues that other's have had. whitedragon64 did have chain issues and solved those. So I personally am leaning toward that Arrowhead did not drive his car hard and whitedragon64 did.
There are people out there still driving 2000 Drakart Formula Crosses with the original style axles. I blew 2 in 2 riding trips before upgrading to the newer stronger axles. Alain Fricker told me I drove the car the way it was meant to be driven. While there are people running these axles without breaking them, I would not suggest using the same axles to build a new car with similar power. It is one thing to use the Honda trans in the Honda car until it breaks then think about what can be done to make it stronger. It is another thing to build something from scratch using it if it is even close to the edge of handling the abuse.
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+1
BTW,a LJ won't do.
;) ;D ;D
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Your the new DTS breaker of shit SPIDER MONKEY
I OFFICIALLY GIVE YOU MY TITLE
WOOHOO!
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Would nailing the brakes at around 30 and twitching the wheel to spin the car around then going from brakes to full throttle while still sliding backwards be easier or harder than things Enemy does? I know CV joints are not particularly fond of suddenly going from heavy load in one direction to the other.
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i'D SAY DEFINITELY YOUR EXAMPLE IS WORSE THAN ENEMIES WHEELIES.
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Would nailing the brakes at around 30 and twitching the wheel to spin the car around then going from brakes to full throttle while still sliding backwards be easier or harder than things Enemy does? I know CV joints are not particularly fond of suddenly going from heavy load in one direction to the other.
Been practicing that move on the blacktop in front of my buddys house... Definitely hard on stuff, but oh so fun! Really pisses the poe-poe off nono
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what he does on the sand is light duty compared to what he does on troy's off road track or his personal dirt road course at grandpa's let alone on the pavement at his house or where ever he is at, including his drag racing cars and built diesel's on the highway!!
;) ;D
just out of curiosity I wonder what the back lash on the r&p and gears is in that stock honda trans? I wonder if the trans was set up with some kind of kush puck on input shaft?
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whitedragon64
I have to give you credit for the work you did do! nice job. I know short chains cook fast and 630 cooks a lot faster than 530. what does that honda trans weigh ready to bolt up to the busa?
maybe if you shored up the back lash on the internals ie, R&P , gears etc and added a kushion drive on the input or center gear this may help but only time will tell if it will work, that's if you want to continue to spend the money to r&d it!!
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Looking more at the setup over at MBN, it looks like he had the bearing holder all mounted on the shaft then bolted that to the support plate so that the shaft was centered. It is a good way to do it to get things lined up. I also see the picture of the rotational sheared shaft and think that it is simply too much torque, likely during shock load, that twisted it off. Maybe gearing up into it and using a lower ratio ring and pinion so everything spins faster with less torque would help. But at some point, the cost of the patches exceed the benefit of the trans being available and cheap.
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I'm starting to come to the conclusion that some people around here think I'm hard on stuff ???
I luv you guys rofl
:m :m :m :m