Author Topic: AR-51 build  (Read 136784 times)

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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2018, 10:58:07 AM »
Holy crap!  3 miles!?  Must have fallen off a transport trailer.

Any suggestions on clutches for the Hayabusa?  I do have to do some research on them for sure to see what works and what doesn't.  Especially when it's off road, not on the streets.

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #151 on: September 17, 2018, 12:01:50 PM »
Stock frictions with stock steels and heavy duty springs are the best,IMO.   New owner bought busa and promptly crashed it right after entering freeway. Dude had no idea how powerful they are and it bit him in the ass. I heard it went down at over 140.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #152 on: September 17, 2018, 01:34:53 PM »
slave support.....https://store.schnitzracing.com/schnitz-clutch-slave-support-bracket-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-07/


i do agree with fabr , heavier springs and stock steels and friction with heavier springs but your choice ( i went aftermarket clutch kit but didn't know)......https://store.schnitzracing.com/ape-clutch-spring-kit-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-07/


and i put one of these in, made a diff imo and would do it again......https://store.schnitzracing.com/brocks-clutch-mod-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-18/
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #153 on: September 17, 2018, 01:52:26 PM »
Definitely some solid info on the clutch set up.  I will have to do some digging on the clutch mod and what it does.  There will be some launches as Iv'e got some RZR's out there at the dunes I want to embarrass.  LOL

I actually had a wild hair in my ass to re configure the rear suspension slightly to get more travel and the addition of bypasses.  I'll get into that tomorrow after some head scratching. 

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #154 on: September 18, 2018, 05:27:32 AM »
All right,
After looking at the rear of my car, I think there can be some improvements.  I really like the way the car handles with the a arms.  However looking at the car from a plan view (above) the center spool center-line and the micro-stub center line are on 2 different planes.  Roughly 2".  Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe I can get more travel if those 2 center lines (spool and stub) were in line?  Say its 3* forward and i center things up, would you agree that may be more down travel as far as the CV angles go?
Below is the plan view.
 

By thought is to build new arms and a trailing link if you will to center things up.  ALSO, add 2" to each side.  My other idea is to keep the shock in it's position and add a bypass.  I think I can squeeze another 3" out if it, possibly 1" more if I step up to a 30" tire and the track width would be around 80"

Thoughts?   
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #155 on: September 18, 2018, 10:30:30 AM »
i understand your thought process of gaining 3* here and move it there. the way the chain adjusts you will always have some misalignent there. if the a arms truly stroke straight up and down and no rake at the cradle then that 3* offset is due to  wheel base with out changing the chassis imo. big question is how much axle plunge do you currently have? 2nd... how much angle are your running now? how long are your axles? what is the track width with paddles on?  i ask these questions as i run non plunge 930 cv's. with the turbo busa i had , i had them limited at 35* withy straps. now on my current i have them limited at 30* and am using the same cvs from before which are going on 5 years old.

bypass shocks would/are fantastic.  if the lower arms were wider at the frame you wouldnt need that link bar. it def seems to work.


i want to say that when designing an a arm rear end that everything does need to pivot at the same points. so that 3* offeset really shouldnt be there. must be a reason for it. however, straightening those lines wont gain you a lot of wheel travel imo. longer axles and higher angle cvs would.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 10:41:30 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #156 on: September 18, 2018, 01:11:50 PM »
what is this angle?
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #157 on: September 19, 2018, 07:06:16 AM »
Great conversation.
As far as wheelbase, i'm not too concerned unless it affects akerman.  Good call on the chain adjustment.  That is 1.25" overall.
I will have to measure the plunge later today.  I think it was designed to be around 1/8" or so, maybe less as Rick was pretty picky in the design.
I am running 24" axles and at full droop they are 26* and the track width is 78" or so.  I DO have 1.250" wheel adapters currently.  I will be getting rid of them and re drilling my flanges.  That will allow me to widen the rear out to gain more usable travel.
I am interested in the non plunging CV's.  Those, coupled with a little wider track width could achieve a fair amount of added travel.

I will be keeping everything the way it is until after the LS trip, but starting some R&D now to get a good plan.  Everything about the car is awesome.  It handles very good, but would be so much better with more rear travel.

The angle at which the radius arm is to the arm is appx 50* at while full droop.

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #158 on: September 19, 2018, 08:48:58 AM »
https://www.rcvperformance.com/ultimate-non-plunging-fixed-930-cv-joint-chromoly-cage-and-28-spline.html


so one thing to consider is that in an ideal situation we want our front tires tracking down the center of our rears. does your currently? if the front end is wider then widening the rear would def be a plus. 

on that forward link rod....45* is imo max angle so 50* from be to far but it works then it works.

if this rick person does indeed have axle plunge down to 1/8" plunge or less as i have on the last several then i am surprised he hasn't gone to non plunge 930's?? ideal would be to take that 1.25" from chain adjustment and split it then center the axle on that line so the offset is equal when adjusted.  having that axle centerline off centered from the pivot points of the a arms actually can create axle plunge, surprised the designer did that. so if you take the width of the wheel adaptor and if the front is wider then add that and you'll get your new axle length #.

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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #159 on: September 19, 2018, 09:56:13 AM »
The front has the same spacers as the rear.  Oh, I didn't tell you that I was going to widen the front too.  HAA!!  I'm going for some good travel numbers on this car.  I currently am pulling 18" up front.  I will be doing a fabricated plate lower that will be 1-2" wider each side, beef up the bushings as well.

In fact the guy that designed it has F-150 outers available to slide into my intrepid bearing.  Below is the link. 
http://www.rickskraschsite.com/catalog.php?ProdID=GM-874

I will be speaking with him to review his idea around the axles going forward.

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #160 on: September 19, 2018, 10:37:57 AM »
i ran the f150 cv/stub and the actual f150 wheel bearing on my turbo busa. well glad your widening the front too and since you are...... set it all up so the front tires track down the center of the rear tires. if possible pull that rear link bar back to 45* ( off center of axle) or slghtly less ( if possible it works so could leave it).

 post up why the builder offset the axle like that. i am not saying its a bad thing just curious why.

just for an idea.....my current rails rear track width is 96" with paddles. front is 80" and i have 24" wheel travel. rims on rear are 12" wide with 4.5" back spacing , fronts are 5" wide and 3.5" back spacing. my fronts are close to on center tracking with rears. i run 28" axles on non plunge 930 cv's.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 10:40:02 AM by dsrace »
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #161 on: September 19, 2018, 01:28:55 PM »
Well I got some feedback from the designer of the car. 
His idea was to keep the car as short as possible, thus raking the drive axles forward in turn sacrificing some travel.
Well, this car is gonna get slightly longer....in many ways. LOL

There is a chap over down-under who destroyed one of his f-150 CV's with a Busa powered car.  Not sure how.  I may just run the non plunging 930's all around and keep things common.

I will probably keep the radius rod where it is on the chassis and look at a different location on the lower arm.   

Plan of attack.  Goal of 18-20" of rear travel @ under 80" wide and 20-21" up front.
-Design different lower and upper arms to fit the chassis as well as the upright +2 per side. 
-Lowers to be plate/box design and uppers tube.
-Design so that the spool center matches the micro stub.  (chain adjuster in the central location)
-24" axles to 26" axles
-Non plunging 930 CV swap
-Take the front design and widen the same as the rear.  (shock location will stay and the +2 addition will be from the shock out)
-Lowers will be plate/box and the uppers will be tube.
-Oh yeah, Busa swap. LOL
-MAYBE 2" 3 tube bypasses in the rear.
I guess I will be busy this winter!
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #162 on: September 19, 2018, 01:53:40 PM »
well you officially completed the hardest part.....the plan!  :D

i dont think i saw the wheel base listed but could've missed it. all of the mid engine 2 seats i built were 106" plus. the 3 v6 and turbo 2.3 have been 107 to 117" wb. 106" on the "mini's" has always worked out great. i prefer 84" plus on track width in the rear for stability but thats personal opinion. of corse with 24" of usable travel one needs 28" ground clearence plus to achieve 24" usable travel. so the higher they go the wider they have to get.     

i agree on all 4 np 930's....keeps it simple. i normally have 2 spares. hope i never need them but got em.    i never had any issues with the f150 cv itself but did have a wheel bearing wear out faster then i thought. seems like on a few diff rails, always the drivers side first.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:56:24 PM by dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #163 on: September 19, 2018, 04:37:05 PM »
slave support.....https://store.schnitzracing.com/schnitz-clutch-slave-support-bracket-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-07/


i do agree with fabr , heavier springs and stock steels and friction with heavier springs but your choice ( i went aftermarket clutch kit but didn't know)......https://store.schnitzracing.com/ape-clutch-spring-kit-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-07/


and i put one of these in, made a diff imo and would do it again......https://store.schnitzracing.com/brocks-clutch-mod-suzuki-gsx1300r-hayabusa-99-18/
5 minutes with the TIG and you have the same thing.That saves you something like $248. ;)
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #164 on: September 19, 2018, 04:47:56 PM »
Sounds like you have a solid plan for upgrades.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

 

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