Author Topic: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3  (Read 1716 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2020, 05:26:18 PM »
Nascar mandates that the engines run a minimum of 2 complete races or 1000 laps before they can be torn down, There are seal tags on them to prevent teams opening one up before then. No tag,no race. Consider 1000 laps at 9000 rpm. That's more abuse than probably a few years in the dunes.

i agree!!
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Offline fabr

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2020, 06:19:48 PM »
Where are you tapping into the oil gallery? Close to pump before entering the oil galleries or after everything is oiled and returning to pan?   If you add an aftermarket liquid to air cooler remember that they are not nearly as efficient as the liquid to liquid was. It will take a considerably larger liquid to air to equal the liquid to liquid. Somewhere around 1 1/2 larger.  There are liquid to liquid coolers aftermarket and they work quite well. But all that is a moot point since you don't know your oil temp. If your oil is not running over 200 or close to it then you have zero need for a cooler and truthfully, you don't want one either if so. Oil needs to be in that area to effectively boil off any moisture and also effectively do its' job. Too cool oil is not better-ever. What's too cool? Of course that is open to MANY opinions but most oil companies would like to see around 190 or so.

If you are not seeing your oil pressure at cold start up being very close to your bypass spring rating there is something not right. Maybe your gauge/s are just wrong. maybe you have a bypass piston sticking wide open and that is your hot idle lower than you want pressure. Maybe you have excess leakage internally from too large bearing clearances (rods/mains/cam)for the oil you are using. Maybe you have excess clearance in lifter bores. Maybe,maybe,maybe.

IMO,you need a temp gauge before you continue possibly over thinking this.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2020, 06:36:21 AM »
i have considered bearing clearances as well as other possibilities. they are possible but i still suspect the pump as this has been basically like this since fresh rebuild. i will add an oil temp gauge before the trip also.  there are several places to tap the oil gallery but i don't know where to return it.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2020, 07:17:38 AM »
Soooo,you don't know what the bearing clearances were ? You say this "issue" has been there since a rebuild? Will you inspect/plastigage the mains/rods while you have pan off changing the pump? If not,why not? FWIW,I seriously doubt the pump is at fault IF the bearing clearances are within spec.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2020, 07:37:42 AM »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 08:45:25 AM »
i do not know what the clearences were . i have them written down at home but here at work with me. i was well with in spec ( ford spec) and in the tolerence range the machinist suggested. of course he specs the bearings before i did and he already knew i was well with in.  like i said its been there since day one. now the amsoil 10w40 did seem to make it a little lower but not by a huge amount. 

one thought i've kicked around for a while is oil psi sensor location.   
factory location is left rear corner of the head. there is a T fitting threaded in and the first leg feeds the turbo and 2nd the oil psi gauge.  now having said that........ fords sensor went to an idiot gauge. that gauge read tow to high and didnt read low until under 10 psi if at all.   

the reason i  kind of questioned this location is because that turbo feed line is only 20". every knows how it flows through a turbo and then returns to the oil pan. so i do under stand my dual bb turbo has a restrictor but i still wonder if that location might show a lower psi than in a diff port directly in the head or block?   

if that sensor location accounted for a 5 to 10 psi drop then it would set me where i want to be.  i plumped the mech gauge into the same spot for comparison

i of course could re check my bearing clearences while i have the pan off.  not hard to do at that point. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 08:48:50 AM by dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 04:52:06 PM »
Something to give thought to.
 
https://blog.k1technologies.com/bearing-clearance-and-oil-viscosity-explained

very good info there! i will go find my notes but as i remember i was just a little tighter then middle of ford spec on mains and rods.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 06:05:14 PM »
Was cam bearing clearance checked? On many engines that is a source of major leakage. Most shops just drive the bearings in and if the cam turns call it good.


I'd try plumbing in a mechanical gauge at all possible places.See what you have. Easier than putting a different pump in .
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2020, 06:07:23 AM »
so i cannot find my notes. there with the ford manual and i moved some where and cannot find it last night. either way it was well with in spec. thats a good question on the cam. the cam/head combo i bought used from enemy and bolted right on. the last head cam combo was stock and i had rebuilt. like i said i've had this oil issue since i built it. 

i was reading some diff posts on the ford forums and saw a couple video links. so there a debate on whether or not the 2.3 pumps need gaskets. chilton and haynes says they do but the ford manual doesnt say and melling doesnt sell a gasket.  i know i didnt use one or gasket sealer when i installed mine. enemy did. now i am pretty sur enemy's oil pump is the higher volume also.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2020, 11:33:58 AM »
been fighting a cold since mon evening and had my grandson for a few days before. yep i'm pretty sure i know where the cold came from  ;D so i havent had any time to get back on the engine.

interesting side note.....was reading some info and watched an eric the car guy video linked to one the articles. he says if the needle shakes or vibrates then that means theres an oil leak in the system.  this is a new one on me.....anyone know that to be true? i ask because at idle (oil filled gauge) my gauge does wiggle/vibrate. it does not hold steady but does through a 6k rpm sweep which only spikes 50 psi pressure with amsoil 10w/40.
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Offline fabr

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2020, 08:41:16 PM »
I would think it would indicate a leak on the suction side allowing air into system.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: melling oil pump ford turbo 2.3
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2020, 09:38:14 PM »
I would think it would indicate a leak on the suction side allowing air into system.

that would make sense. the pick up tube could have a leak i didn't see.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience