DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: dsrace on February 04, 2010, 08:05:50 PM
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ok they showed up today. ok the housing is 1.345" wide and the cage is actually wider than the housing and it is 1.623" wide. the gkn plunging 930 I have in the box is actually is 1.58" but the box says bmw but does still fit the 930 pattern. the cage is centered in the non plunge (np) but the star is actually off center visually 3/16". installing the recessed side out of the drive cup the axle will go 47* at that point it touches the housing but flip it over and it goes farther but doesn't matter because you can't get a boot to survive past 40 according to the cv supplier. now in my hand the cage plunges about 1/32" and the star with the balls another 1/32" so together 1/16" per cv (np). this is great since my axle only plunges 1/8" through a 24" stroke! as you can see from the bad pics I am posting the balls are equally space so fabbr you are right the greaser plates won't work on these cv's! :'( I'll have to have a chat with that world expert machinest about this little set back! ;) ;)
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That angle is redicilous! Awesome! Who is this damn machinist you keep talking about? Not sure why you just dont have me look into it thumb down
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That angle is redicilous! Awesome! Who is this damn machinist you keep talking about? Not sure why you just dont have me look into it thumb down
OK OK I'll have to give you a try this time! rofl ;D instead of the street artist ;D
what do you think about some grease plates with 1/2" stand off for a 930cv with equally spaced balls, I will only need 2 plates?
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You been listening to the wrong guy ds. ;D(Inside joke guys!) Sorry DS ,I couldn't help it. LMAO That guy told you he didn't know crap for sure. rofl rofl
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ya well I couldn't remember if I talked to him or his voice double :o rofl
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ANOTHER inside joke! LOL!!!!!
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I guess if everyone wanted in, they should show up at the group events!
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Where's my hat at anyway? I bought more of these than anyone. ;) But you did do the legwork. 8) Great job.
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I thought I would break it in for you!! rofl
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yours is on it's way with the cv's! I put it in a plastic bag so it wouldn't get greasy! ;D
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LOL!!!!!!
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rofl
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I have actually run them up to 45* total with steering. Granted it sees that rarely and not for long. I took longer axles and cut them down so the spline was just long enough to go through the star. This gave a lot more clearance to the housing.
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any problems? how long did you run them and with what?
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The longest running set is on a Toyota T100 pre-runner. http://jdfabrication.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=89 (http://jdfabrication.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=89) We switched it over from regular CV's about 4? years ago. Same CV's are still in good shape. The only problems have been keeping the bolts tight. On something that heavy with that much gear reduction in 4X they have to be assembled dry with Locktight between the CV and cup and on all the bolts. They are safety wired afterwords also........ If the damn thing comes loose again, I'm tacking the CV to the cup..........
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Red or blue loctite being used? Have you also used the loctite primer by chance?
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Red. Hadn't heard of the primer till now so no. I just make sure the mounting surfaces are really clean. Of course when you have one come loose on the trail, that all goes out the window.
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http://207.250.200.229:8080/1/doc?id=50347 (http://207.250.200.229:8080/1/doc?id=50347)
They make no claims of better adhesion but they do say it makes for a stronger lock where there are large gaps(threaded connections). I have found it to be pretty effective in those situations. Might make a significant difference for you. Maybe not either but for 14 bux it 's a cheap try.
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There are also several different red formulas .
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thanks this is some useful info! after reading this I called a few friends that run plunging 930's and asked if they have had bolts back out. I did get a few different scenario's but they all said that they have experienced bolts backing out! trans man said he tq's his down makes a run then re tq's and if necessary a 3rd time. pretty much the same in all cases but I will be using safety wire when I do mine just to be safe!
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I think the extra operating angle that they are running at puts more stress on the bolts. No real way around that. I'm using Allen bolts that are trimmed to the correct length AKA poor mans aircraft bolt. The shank goes almost entirely through the housing. Torque with Locktite is 55#'s.........
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Anyone ever try someone like ARP for some "super bolts"?
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I think the extra operating angle that they are running at puts more stress on the bolts. No real way around that. I'm using Allen bolts that are trimmed to the correct length AKA poor mans aircraft bolt. The shank goes almost entirely through the housing. Torque with Locktite is 55#'s.........
thanks for the info!
transman what do you tq you plunging cv bolts at?
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Anyone ever try someone like ARP for some "super bolts"?
do you have a link? I think mckenzies sells them too but not 100% sure.
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www.arp-bolts.com (http://www.arp-bolts.com)
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read this also http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/Tech.html and then give them a call. I bet they have some killers not listed. Maybe not but they might make short runs of some specials. I thought they used to offer CV bolts but I didn't see them on the web catalog. I also think that the cv could be helped if the cv face and cup mounting faces are smooth and flat to allow proper clamping .Perhaps checking the cup faces of these POS Empi cups so many of us use. I checked two today and they had from .006-.013 taper to the center across the faces. That can't help a damn thing.
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I did the final machining on those after welding the flange to the stub axle. They are flat and a light press fit into the locating ring. Of course it's also a 5K+ vehicle with 35" tires..........
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I didn't check a cv itself for flatness on it's face. I know some leave a bit to be desired. Has anyone checked that? I gotta get on the road or I'd do it right now.
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www.arp-bolts.com (http://www.arp-bolts.com)
that is a damn nice site!
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best there is in fasteners
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OK,made the decision to go with the RCV non plunge/fixed 930 cv's. I have zero plunge throughout the entire 24" travel due to H Arms suspension. I bought slip joint axles though. I'm of the opinion that unless your arms and frame are built like a tank there will be some deflection in use and maybe quite a lot. Others seem to be of the opinion that would not be an issue. Opinions?
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That's a good idea to have a backup safety built in, because you never know if something is going to :j :j
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I just feel that things deflect a lot more that most of us realize.
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OK,made the decision to go with the RCV non plunge/fixed 930 cv's. I have zero plunge throughout the entire 24" travel due to H Arms suspension. I bought slip joint axles though. I'm of the opinion that unless your arms and frame are built like a tank there will be some deflection in use and maybe quite a lot. Others seem to be of the opinion that would not be an issue. Opinions?
Mmmmm....... I know another guy like you. ;D He told me once that he is from the school of thought that when a fly lands on the deck of an aircraft carrier it bends....
But I agree, some things deflect more than you think.
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everything has "spring" properties. I have seen some stuff bend without staying bent (deflect) that was just unreal.
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There are too many unforseen variables in offroad. Many of them caused by the driver. And some amount deflection is a good thing.
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if you are seeing 0 plunge through you entire stroke right now then I would say no since I was told that up to 3/8" slip on the splines was ok in this style of cv, so I won't when the time comes to convert mine out but of course this is just 2 cents.
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I was told that up to 3/8" slip on the splines was ok in this style of cv,
If your cup is deep enough you can get almost an inch of plunge out of the star........ Not that I would recommend it.........
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Nor would I as the splines in these cv's,I'm told,is not intended to slip. Intentional tighter fit. 3/8's plunge is about all the cups would allow though.
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if you are seeing 0 plunge through you entire stroke right now then I would say no since I was told that up to 3/8" slip on the splines was ok in this style of cv, so I won't when the time comes to convert mine out but of course this is just 2 cents.
Yes,I know, we discussed this . I have,as you do,zero plunge. As always tho time will tell. I'd PREFER,as you do, to use a solid axle but on the other hand I don't want any additional possible issues during testing of the tranny/adapter drive. Hence the slip shaft axles.
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BTW,285 each from RCV.
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BTW,285 each from RCV.
wow when I called it was 235 for 32" 4130 and yes on the additional problems but when I get the time and the rest of the parts I will try it with solid. how long were the axles you were quoted on? I guess with slip and solid axle trials we'll know for sure which is better in the end. ;D
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35.5" + upgrades
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BTW,285 each from RCV.
Ouch, last time I priced some they were 180$
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sorry guys but that price fabbr posted I believe is for 1 axle. not knowing the upgrades but considering what i believe them to be that probably isn't a bad price for american molly instead of china molly! not to meantion what they shot me might have been reflective of the qty 10 order of the 930 np cv's.
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BTW,285 each from RCV.
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There's another possibility that I had not thought of. One of the limiting factors for us is 25-27* angle possible on 930's that if you wish camber gain in the rear you will reduce suspension travel due to some of the 25-27*'s being used up with the camber gain. A person could use a plunging 930 at the trans and a non plunge at the wheel. I,for example, could also have cv plunge more than adequate in the plunging 930 to accomodate any deflection I might have and still use all the clips to retain the axle correctly in the stars and have no plunge in the star splines on either end.. Damn,wish I had thought of that!
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That's what I did on the 4X fronts............
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There's another possibility that I had not thought of. One of the limiting factors for us is 25-27* angle possible on 930's that if you wish camber gain in the rear you will reduce suspension travel due to some of the 25-27*'s being used up with the camber gain. A person could use a plunging 930 at the trans and a non plunge at the wheel. I,for example, could also have cv plunge more than adequate in the plunging 930 to accomodate any deflection I might have and still use all the clips to retain the axle correctly in the stars and have no plunge in the star splines on either end.. Damn,wish I had thought of that!
And I assumed that was your plan all along. kick
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Aw,go move some bars around.
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;D
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;) ;D
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Engineer I did some checking on the f150 wheel bearings and apperantly there is 3 bolt patterns to choose from listed in the parts store catalog, did you come across this?
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Engineer I did some checking on the f150 wheel bearings and apperantly there is 3 bolt patterns to choose from listed in the parts store catalog, did you come across this?
There are also different stud diameters. Which is why I have stuck to the "Timken 515017" or a direct cross. ;)
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I wonder if any of them have a different hub dia?