DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
General Discussion => Meet and Greet => Topic started by: Voodoochikin04 on August 20, 2018, 10:41:51 AM
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So..... I was active here YEARS ago with a start to finish buggy build. I believe my thread is still floating around on here. Well time has come and the bug has bitten again to start a new project soon!! Figured Id reintroduce myself lol. Cant wait to be active here more often again! Attached is the final product from my years long fight with learning! :P
(https://s22.postimg.cc/z3wbufrr1/IMG_20140410_181216.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/z3wbufrr1/)
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well , whats the new project?? nice to see you back.
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Another motorcycle powered mini buggy #1,
Motorcycle powered UTV (sidexside) #2,
ATV powered UTV #3.........
I have 40 acres of land to tool around on now. With trails surrounding my entire area. So im not sure if I need the speed id get from another sport bike engine or if id prefer an ATV engine with reverse. I think a sidexside type UTV chassis would be easy to get in and out of since im not as young as I once was, but im not sure yet what exactly I want.
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Who could forget voodoo? Welcome back and keep us posted on the progress!
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Hey Voodoo! I guess I'm not the only one to come back after years of falling off of the planet. I'm looking forward to seeing you're build. 👍
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well grimm are you pack and ready for the oct trip yet?? ;D rofl one more run in my rail and it's ready to load lol
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Wishing I was ready.
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Wishing I was ready.
well get on it then lol hows the place at the dunes coming along? i'd ask if it was finished but i know nothing is ever finished. called the lumber yard but apperantly you left at 10am......damn bankers hrs lol
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Almost done with the crap needing done at LS. Black buggy ,almost done,might make it to our gathering. Blue most likely will not BUT there will be 4 YXZ's! :m
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Well I tracked down my old buggy. Traded hands 4 times since I got rid of it. Every owner loved it and beat the piss out of it. Never broke and was ripping down the road while I was on the phone with the last owner. He had just paid $3500 for it so it hasnt lost much value. Theres a sense of pride knowing All my work held together with no failures these last few years!!
So I purchased a 2007 Gsxr-600 over the weekend. less than 10K miles on it. Need to get a stock header, gauge, and fuel pump for it. paid $650 for whole engine setup: engine, harness, ignition with key, hand controls, ECU, rectifier, throttle bodies, cracked airbox, front brake calipers with master, two brother muffler, and some other odds & ends. I feel that was a good price after picking up my jaw from the ebay prices....
My goal is to be using DOM tube this time. instead of the HREW or whatever it was I used last time.
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DOM would be a good choice . No real need for 4130 with a light car. DOM 1018 is plenty strong enough with decent wall thickness.
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Woohoo! Glad to see ya back and itching for more. With deep enough gearing the trails can be a blast and quick with a m/c engine.
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My last buggy used a 12or13 tooth front sprocket and a 60tooth lady shark rear from Dough Heim. combined with 25" tall rear tires it flew! I had a 72 tooth on it for a short time but it was too low at the time. I may design this new rear end around a 72 tooth this time. More chain. (if i go chain route, also looking at shaft driven rear end ideas)
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not sure if doug still has the zx900 yet or not. those are very good engines and that 600 should be too. i would def go 13/70 on that 600 depending on tire size ( 28" tall ) and weight.
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is a .120 wall thickness good for mini buggy UTV style rig. maybe like 1.25" OD.
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.095 is USUALLY plenty,IMO. What is your target weight approximately?
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fabr is correct........ on 1.25" od for a mini .095 wall in a good 1018 or 1020 dom is plenty and properly braced. in fact i would prob use .083 wall for the up and down bracing and .095 for the main frame members that carry shocks and engine cradle. make sure and spread the load well where motor mounts, shocks and suspension tabs are attached.
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previously I used 1.125" OD tube... is 1.25" preferred?
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fabr is correct........ on 1.25" od for a mini .095 wall in a good 1018 or 1020 dom is plenty and properly braced. in fact i would prob use .083 wall for the up and down bracing and .095 for the main frame members that carry shocks and engine cradle. make sure and spread the load well where motor mounts, shocks and suspension tabs are attached.
Ditto!
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previously I used 1.125" OD tube... is 1.25" preferred?
absolutley
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So I'm getting prices of $5-5.50/foot for Dom from my local steel places. That seems high. Two of them their "steel guy" recommended that I should be using their "mechanical HREW round tube" which is $1.50/ft. Any more advice from you guys based on that?
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I think you should look for another supplier. Yes,that is high,IMO. There is a big difference in hot rolled tube and cold rolled DOM . DOM will have consistent wall thickness and will reliably bend in the bender. It will also weld up much nicer.Anything hot rolled will have mill scale on/in it and is a PITA to do quality welds. I would never,ever use HREW for a cage. Their "steel guy" is just trying to sell you what they have on hand and likely do not have a good source for DOM. I hate it when a vendor "recommends" an inferior alternative just to make a sale.
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i have to agree with fabr. electric weld tube is not prefferred as it does not have a uniform wall thickness and it has a welded raised seem (inside). dom is a uniform wall thickness so no thin/thick spots. now if you really want to use erw tube then go .120 wall. now if i remember right the erw isnt offered in .120 but rather 11gauge. anyway there is a price diff and with the new terriffs i dont know what its gone into. now in the small town of norfolk it will be higher than lincoln or omaha.
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Its funny because not only do we have a massive Nucor steel plant, right next door is Norfolk Iron & metal which sells steel globally.. yet they wont sell to a random person. I've called several places in the Omaha area, as well as the Sioux City area and noone has 1.25" x .095" DOM.. Crazy. Not that I need it Immediately but heck, id like to find a decently priced source. I found it online for $3.67/ft but with a $1000 delivery charge lol. Cant win.
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Just had a refreshing phone call from a company I had previously bought metal from. Called them yesterday for a quote on 1.25"x0.095" DOM tube. The owner who I know calls me up and says: "Matt...do you know what DOM is?" I say "drawn over mandrel, smooth interior, consistent thickness tube"... he says "No seam. Its MACHINED!!!.... I can get it to you for $26.73 per foot" I was in shock... like what?? I told him other places were around $5/ft. He goes off on a rage and screams at me to stop wasting his effing time, to quit blowing smoke up his a$$ that DOM is machined tube and super pricey and that the steel places are not selling me true DOM. So i texted him the screenshot of my other quotes lol. Told me to buy it from them cause its not real DOM and to stop wasting his f*cking time.
Awesome way to do business!
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First off DOM is NOT machined . It starts out just like CREW(cold rolled electric resistance welded) which is usually 1010 steel. Dom is usually from 1020 or 1026 which is slightly stronger to start with and is identical to CREW at that point. It becomes DOM after it is Drawn Over Mandrel. It DOES have a seam but the cold working process (DOM)makes the seam nearly undectable and for all intents and purposes seamless . It does have a seam though. Then there is true seamless such as CDS (cold drawn seamless) that is actually made by being extruded.
IMO ,the arrogant asshole that you know and quoted you CDS just because you incorrectly told him DOM is seamless (most people refer to DOM as seamless) is an absolute asshole. He knows what you are wanting it for and IF he had a brain would have directed you to what he should have KNOWN you were after or politely declined. Same with the other places. Keep looking for a supplier that is in your area that deals in it,there HAS to be one somewhere near you.
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Here's a link to a good description of the types of tube and briefly how made by people that know what they are selling.
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/difference-between-erw-dom-and-seamless-tube/
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BTW,that $1k freight quote is BS. The amount of tube you'd need shouldn't cost much more than maybe $250. Most suppliers get big,really big freight discounts that you and I do not.
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Ive been saying 200-300ft... I used that much last time. Maybe I need a more minimalist design ha.
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Here's a link to a good description of the types of tube and briefly how made by people that know what they are selling.
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/difference-between-erw-dom-and-seamless-tube/
very good infor right there.
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Ive been saying 200-300ft... I used that much last time. Maybe I need a more minimalist design ha.
300' sounds about right for 1.25" and 1" od to be honest. hell the front ends i build and sell have 26' in each onr including a arms.
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that mans behavior is waaaaaaay out of line.
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Just for grins and giggles I checked a place I use for small quantities of all kinds of tube/bar/plate etc.- onlinemetals -to see what they charge to ship 200 feet of 1.25x.095 DOM. Their foot price was 5 something and the freight was $241.96 . They only sell up to 8 foot lengths though. They might offer it in 21' though if you called them. I can't help but believe you can beat the price though.
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300 foot was $363.83 . That is likely a realistic price if needing shipped to you by most any supplier and should be less when you find one closer to you AND with a better per foot price..
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Ill keep looking
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call tmco in lincoln and in to metal. they sell what they call random lengths which are 17 to 24'. i have never recieved shorter than 20'ers. i know in my bare frames i figure on 8- 20' sticks 1.25" od and 2 sticks 1"od . so 10 sticks 1.25" od wouldnt be out of line for front end and frame plus screw up.
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Here are a couple places reasonably close to you. Might try them.
http://statesteel.com/our-products/ Grand Island,Neb
http://www.salemsteel.com/locations.html St.Louis,Mo
http://www.centralsteel.com/products/TUBE.php Cincinnati,Oh
I found some further away also. You're just going to have to search it out/try DS's suggestions to find best deal..
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YES,always ask for randoms. always better pricing! Thanks DS,I had forgotten about that fact.
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yea good idea about randoms.
i got a call into state steel earlier. they were gonna call me back with pricing. The best price I found online was $3.76 or something like that but that was the place that wanted $940 for freight on 15 sticks of 20'. I need to pick up a new drill press, band saw, and chop saw. The stuff I was using 10yrs ago was already past its end of life lol. Need to wire in 220 outlet in the garage. I just moved to an acreage back in May, so starting fresh with alot of stuff.
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Voodoo, I've got John Deere pricing with State Steel, Chicago Tube and Iron, Central, Leibovich, Metals USA, Ryerson, and a couple others. If you are in the Des Moines area, I'm certain I can get you one heck of a deal. I'll check to see what we last paid for both of those.
One of the perks to working for the number one supplier to JD.
That and 8 million dollars worth of lasers. 😉
~Adam
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:s
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Hey Adam!!
I remember when you first came on here, I was watching all your posts to your build.
I'm about 4hrs from Des Moines. it would just cost some diesel to take a take trailer there.
I did get good news. I asked if my local metal specialties place that previously quoted me $5.00/ft if they could do any better. The owner replied that if I do order 300ft, AND I can wait for their next order of steel (which I could, no hurry) that he could give me a better price.
so pending what Adam can get it for me for, and fuel cost....might be making a trip to Des Moines!! :) 8)
**Missed this place & you guys.. glad to be back!
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I found these wheels for $125. From a polaris ranger 900.
fronts: 12"x9"
Rears: 12"x11"
decent price or do you guys think they are hideous? lol
(https://s8.postimg.cc/l1d26rub5/Polaris_Ranger_900_Rims.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l1d26rub5/)
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They're not hideous,they're just ,wellllll,not pretty. :)
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Voodoo,
My quote is out to all of my supplier contacts... I'm awaiting an email with the best pricing. ;)
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Nice job,Grimm
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Yea man awesome!! Thanks!!
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Well... The best I've got so far is $17.2 per 20' of 1-1/4" 13Ga A513, which equals $0.86/ft and $15.2 per 20' of 1-1/4" 14Ga A513, which equals $0.76/ft
My company charges me 15% above cost for everything! If we do the math... $0.99/ft and $0.88/ft. I will check with the VP, but I'm not certain if they add sales tax or not. Either way, it may be worth your time and fuel. ;D
~Adam
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how the hell could I say no to a deal like that?? jeez much cheaper than I had thought. thats an amazing price. the 13ga is .090. im guessing thats close enough to .095? lol
also, I previously used 1-1/8 tube for my suspension arms.. i feel like 1.25 is going to look too big, what should I be using?
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1.25
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Adam,is that A513-5 or A513-1? Also is it 1020 or?? If it is A513-5 in 1020 that is a killer deal. 13 ga is what he would be after.
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That's type 5 1020. I'll include the certs as well, and yes that's a one helluva deal. We buy $ millions worth of material per year as we're JD's number one supplier. 😎
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Also, 13ga is 0.095" wall. 😉
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:s :s
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Heck I don't know... Lol 13ga it is! So how does this deal work?
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The quote is good for 30 days. Let me know how many feet of exactly what you want, and I'll get it ordered.
PM me your contact info, and we will get the logistics ironed out.
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Order plenty. At that price there's no reason to worry about bending something wrong or missing a cut or effing up a cope. Also take DS's suggestion to go smaller and possibly 14 ga for any web/diagonal tubes. It will look more professional as the diagonals do not need to be as big as main structure tubes.
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Fabr, what sizes would you recommend. And I'm not sure how much to order because I don't have a plan yet. I was just going by 300ft because I know I purchased at least that last time and wasted a decent amount.
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the 1.25 13 ga and probably 1.0 14 ga . Better get a plan and not let this slip past you.
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Am I correct you are planning a 1 seater?
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Two seater, small UTV style.
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at those prices i would buy 250' of .095 (13g).....150' of .083 (14g) and i would buy 60' of 1" od .083 (14g)
the 1" od is for interior frame bracing and misc bracing. the a arms will need to be made out of .120 wall 1.25" od 1020 dom imo. that is what i make mine out of. so may want 40' of that and if you plan on making rear a arms then get 80'.
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Previously I used some heavy ITP cast aluminum rear rims. I can find similar wheels, but have been seeing 12" steel ATV wheels. really cheap. Any reason I would not want some gloss black steel wheels?
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I'd suggest bead lock wheels if running paddles and low air pressure. Steel,aluminum doesn't matter too much.
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AND im back! I picked up 200ft of 1.25" 0.095 wall DOM tube at $3/ft. And 40 ft of 1.25" .120 wall @$4/ft both are 1020. I have kind of decided to go down the path of using polaris rzr parts for my build. less work, easy to replace and find parts.
So it only took 2 years to find the right deal for the tubing haha.
Also picking up a bunch of heavy steel tubing for a sawmill im building. going to have two projects going at once.
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It came in 24ft lengths. Was slightly sketchy hauling on my 16ft trailer.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4DLsjwF/0430201353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4DLsjwF)
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Keep us posted. I agree it is probably good to use Polaris or probably less expensive Yamaha yxz driveline and suspension parts.
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He’s back! Lol.
I usually run tube down middle up the tongue as far as can.
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I usually leave that job for my fiance.......
jokes aside.. The bundle is heavy, and the forklift guy dropped it there on my trailer and per pandemic rules for that company they wont handle your material beyond forklift loading.
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welcome back
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Hey Brian long time no talk! Hows it going?
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pretty good matt. so are you building a 1 or 2 seater?
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2 seater, more of a Sidexside type deal. Was thinking about going with something other than chain drive this time as I'd really like reverse.
Also in the midst of getting sawmill build going.
Got my steel for the mill bed too.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4KWLmxXL/0504201613.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KWLmxXL)
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Ok, need some opinions.
I have a 2007 suzuki gsxr600 engine, tank, fuel pump and the works to go along with it. I had planned to use that as my power plant.
However, a somewhat local person is parting out a 2013 ranger 900. They offered me the whole drivetrain, engine, trans, axles, harness, suspension arms and so forth for $1000.....
Should I go the ranger route or do my own shit?
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Given those choices and if not wanting a chain,I'd go the Ranger route. IMO,the 600 would not be a good choice either way for 2 seater.
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the 07 suzuki 600 is 106hp and 45lb ft or torque. I used an 03 suzuki 600 in my last buggy and it was 2 seats and flew!
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are you running on dirt or in the sand?
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i would have to agree with fabr. in the sand you will want a 1000 or larger. 600cc geared down will get around but not as much fun as one expects. that 900 ranger with taller tires may do great. is that a belt drive? on dirt only.....both will work with the gsxr600 being the fatest.
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98% dirt and atv trails. I mean I wouldnt mind a 1000cc engine but they are just too much $$. I got a sweet deal on this engine & setup that I couldnt pass. Think of it this way, my little polaris 300 offers enough fun on the areas I ride.. lol so the 600 will do!! haha. I appreciate how you guys always are on the lookout.
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Justin's 750 hauled the mail.
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true, his 750 was gear right for his 1 seater. based on the short video's i have seen, his busa is far more power lol even n/a lol i know he clinched hard enough to rip seat foam when it wheelied off the dune top for the first time LMAO
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WELL..... Nothing has progressed on the "new buggy build" because I have decided its not worth it anymore.
I almost bought my old buggy back, but then the owner sold it and lost the contact info for the new buyer so that option disappeared.
I have DECIDED to go with a production SxS...
Since I live on a 40 acre farm, id like to get something with basic utility but mostly for play and tearing up the trails around me.
The picture is a google maps capture of the sand trails 2 miles south of me.
I've looked at rangers and RZR's mostly. I've ruled out the yamaha yxz because it seems to be purely sport. I also am not a fan of articcat, or the can ams for whatever reason.
Not sure I can swing a brand new unit either so far have been looking at private sale.
I've been told look at nothing less than the RZR 1000's.. I'm sure that will be able to hold some fire wood on the back and pull a yard wagon without a problem lol...
Opinions?
(https://i.postimg.cc/9DhDXXhF/SAND.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DhDXXhF)
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i do not know the weak points or good points of the sxs world. i would bet then rzr would be a good choice with all the aftermarket support. i personally like the wild cat xx but the motor seems to be built a little on the light side. i also like the turbo x3 models but they too have some issues as does the rzr's. just have to find our which has the fewest issues in stock form and have fun.
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Welp.. I made a deal on a SxS. Getting this 2019 Polaris General 1000 Ride Command edition. With added polaris front and rear bumpers as well as rock guards. Has a vented glass windshield, and plexi rear window. Comes with squared Tusk Terrabite wheels and 30" tires. I really wanted a sport utility. Something we can use on our 40 acres and tear up the trails!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vr2hY8g5/164432893-3798247430211627-4425897306311933804-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vr2hY8g5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DW9Q0wVV/165219813-3798247410211629-631589913111919492-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DW9Q0wVV)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDFH0k8M/165321635-3798244810211889-8792968176096336264-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDFH0k8M)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8jNHLc7N/165491842-3798247413544962-2642879577786982536-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jNHLc7N)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSKY87VZ/165557164-3798247420211628-7181247474270727603-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSKY87VZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRWJBND6/168434217-286381386531718-3010406818295468577-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRWJBND6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XXwLZd7s/168459191-1883738841801916-7812621911684502116-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XXwLZd7s)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVFq7Z4C/169594621-292419492502266-5029012174420816822-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVFq7Z4C)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KKMqJVx2/169861455-5181597251914746-4717769238568556538-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKMqJVx2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bd3TH8kn/170018000-754628175236100-1030550748966267478-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bd3TH8kn)
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congratulations i think you will really enjoy that sxs. looks like it's strong enough for a snow blade as well. should be a blast in the trails as well as work well on the acreage!!
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Those generals are real workhorses.