DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Machinery, Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Topic started by: dsrace on January 24, 2012, 10:06:11 PM
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well it took some time and a few calls after tracking down the first number and some info but I found the guys that can get the bolt on kits to add shock absorbers to the toy hauler/campers/trailers that don't have them. the listing I found was for c-channel and boxed frames which I think are more for rv's calss c and a than tt's. my 295 wolf pack has an I beam frame. monroe shows a kit but when you call they have discontinued, I found the guys that are continuing to build that kit and can line you up with kyb mono max shocks as well at a very good price. the mono max are far far superior to monroe! if your interested in getting one of these kits I suggest you call and talk to Ross at 401-515-4601. measure up the leaf spring width, measure from the bottom of the leaf spring square plate to the center of the frame member for shock height and add 2 inches and look at the tag on the axle for what it's rated and measure the dia of the tube before you call.
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/mon_retrokit.cfm (http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/mon_retrokit.cfm)
this is a list of the basic measurements to make and right down before you call.
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Anything for torsion axles out there?
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they claim to have that kit too but you would need to call ross to know for sure if he can get them or is still making them. I ordered a set for mine should have them in 2 weeks then I can see just how there made! but I have to say I have been thinking about that for some time with the old camper and the hauler enemy now has that shocks sure would have been nice in the wind!! I'll find out real soon! I have notice running empty that airing down from 80 psi to 65 psi really takes a lot of bump out on rough roads so i figure a good set of shocks will do much more.
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Shocks on a trailer is one of the best things ever. Once you tow with one, you will never go back.
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this is a nice read up or write up that might interest some.
http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/01/31/rv-shock-absorbers (http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/01/31/rv-shock-absorbers)
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fabbr read down on this link for your torsion axles.
http://www.monroeheavyduty.com/products/trailer_retrofit_kits.asp (http://www.monroeheavyduty.com/products/trailer_retrofit_kits.asp)
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Some nice to know information. Would never thought of putting shocks on the trailer. Hmm
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My little toyhauler has shocks and I was shocked when DS said his didn't. Some of the cargo type trailers I can understand but damn a $25k trailer shouldn't be bouncing down the road. Very good idea to instal on about any trailer.
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Almost all trailers are built without shocks. Shocks are a luxury add on.
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yep but they all should have them imo!
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Agreed but the tight asses buying them don't want to pay the difference. The market (tight asses) decides what is used.
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yep!!
the only campers be it fith or bumper that I have seen with shocks were either ordered that way or had an msrp or 75k or more and then you see triple's under them too. othere wise like fabbr said the cheap ass's set the pace for the mid range equipment out there. this new one I got did bounce bad but that was in IA!!!! once we crossed the river into nebr it was so smooth I actually forgot it was behind us at times. now not all roads will be smooth for a couple of hundred miles and that's why we let the air pressure down to 69 psi from 80psi when the chop started. now this wouldn't work if we would have been loaded but empty it's ok but doing this took 50% of the bounce out so I know shocks will do soooooooooooooooooooooo much more!! for $400 for all 4 shock and the upper and lower mounting brackets who wouldn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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be 600 + for us triples. Guess it'll just keep bouncing along.
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be 600 + for us triples. Guess it'll just keep bouncing along.
ya that sounds about right and that's with the goo kyb. the monroe shocks they list are like 30% cheaper but not worth it imo. did you find the torsion axle spec?
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Saw it but I have I beams.
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Don't forget to have the trailer wheels balanced.
It cracks me up that people need their car and truck tires balanced but do not think of this for the trailer that is towed the same speeds.
Just cause you are not riding in it and can not feel it shake does not mean they dont.
The balancing cost is well worth it for tire life alone.
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All this trailer bouncing and KY talk has me thinking, WTH!!
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Don't forget to have the trailer wheels balanced.
It cracks me up that people need their car and truck tires balanced but do not think of this for the trailer that is towed the same speeds.
Just cause you are not riding in it and can not feel it shake does not mean they dont.
The balancing cost is well worth it for tire life alone.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!! When I buy tires for any of my trailers and tell the guys to balan ce them they always look at me like I'm crazy. BS,THEY are. LOL!!!!
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oh hell yes I get mine balanced!! those bearings aren't that great they install in the hubs.
fabbr my frame is I beam too. the specs on the c-channel frame are based on a 2" wide c-channel so my 3" wide I beam will actually have the shock 1/2" out farther than the c- channel style. that is the brackets I ordered and if I have to cut them down to hug the rail I will as a matter of fact I intend on making 2 additional brackets for each shock to try and get them into double shear even though it's probably not needed I would just feel better. now I had ross forget about the monroe shock absorber and went to an 18.6" ext length kyb heavy duty. the kyb's on my truck are the heavy duty tow. I had monroe's on there before and those were supposed to be heavy duty for towing but brand new felt like I was riding on leaf springs so I took them back and they replaced them with another set and same results. they did refund my money. I bought the made in japan ( instead of made in china monroe) for the kyb and what a difference!! I could put my body weight into the monroe's and compress them about 3 -4" and the kyb's didn't budge 1/4" but man the truck doesn't fish tale when I hit the wash boards on the county rds anymore so that is why I chose them. stiffer shock, slower compression and rebound, figure it should help in the wind.
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also something few seldom check is the axle nut tq. everyone checks wheel nut tq but after a few miles off new the tapered bearing on the spindles seat and then they are loose!! my last TH ( toy hauler ) I was checking the brakes and before I removed the wheel I pushed and pulled on the wheel while it was off the ground and it moved in and out about 1/8" to 3/16". I then looked up tq and re-tq'd to find that one cotter pin hole tighter put it right back on the money. but now like I said after they seat from new they really need to be re-tq'd but who ever checks that?! I know I do now cause with that much movement it's going to add to harder towing!
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the kit I will be using once they get here is RB512 Monroe Trailer Kit for my I beam. might need a spacer or cut down won't know till I get it in. one thing I did ask that there ad doesn't say is how much pre load which he didn't now and weather or not 2" - 3" needed to be added for taking a measurement off the axle while the weight of the camper is sitting on it. he figured 2" additional length would be good, agree cause a 6" stroke shock should be sufficient for this since I don't plan on jumping it. rofl
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oh hell yes I get mine balanced!! those bearings aren't that great they install in the hubs.
fabbr my frame is I beam too. the specs on the c-channel frame are based on a 2" wide c-channel so my 3" wide I beam will actually have the shock 1/2" out farther than the c- channel style. that is the brackets I ordered and if I have to cut them down to hug the rail I will as a matter of fact I intend on making 2 additional brackets for each shock to try and get them into double shear even though it's probably not needed I would just feel better. now I had ross forget about the monroe shock absorber and went to an 18.6" ext length kyb heavy duty. the kyb's on my truck are the heavy duty tow. I had monroe's on there before and those were supposed to be heavy duty for towing but brand new felt like I was riding on leaf springs so I took them back and they replaced them with another set and same results. they did refund my money. I bought the made in japan ( instead of made in china monroe) for the kyb and what a difference!! I could put my body weight into the monroe's and compress them about 3 -4" and the kyb's didn't budge 1/4" but man the truck doesn't fish tale when I hit the wash boards on the county rds anymore so that is why I chose them. stiffer shock, slower compression and rebound, figure it should help in the wind.
Post some pics as yu install the kit. Will ross post a pic of the leaf and torsion setups in general?
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also something few seldom check is the axle nut tq. everyone checks wheel nut tq but after a few miles off new the tapered bearing on the spindles seat and then they are loose!! my last TH ( toy hauler ) I was checking the brakes and before I removed the wheel I pushed and pulled on the wheel while it was off the ground and it moved in and out about 1/8" to 3/16". I then looked up tq and re-tq'd to find that one cotter pin hole tighter put it right back on the money. but now like I said after they seat from new they really need to be re-tq'd but who ever checks that?! I know I do now cause with that much movement it's going to add to harder towing!
+1!!!!
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Saw it but I have I beams.
Wouldn't the C channel kit work?
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Not without mods from what DS posted. Need more info. If I have to remake the brackets why buy a kit?
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Not without mods from what DS posted. Need more info. If I have to remake the brackets why buy a kit?
very true!!
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Post some pics as yu install the kit. Will ross post a pic of the leaf and torsion setups in general?
ross is actually a tech for shock wharehouse and not for monroe. he was patient with me and didn't have answers for a lot of my questions but was willing to call the monroes tech's and get the answers and call back however on the brackets or kits monroe offers , the monroe tech's didn't even know these kits existed in there own wharehouse!! that is why Ross bought out the last 9 kits they had on the shelf and is having them reproduced at a local shop. now he was very willing to learn as much as he could during my calls and does hope to continue to sell them. I told him he needs to simplify the intstrutions and have some better info on hand as well, he plans on it.
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I'll wait till then .
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I'll wait till then .
when i get mine in hand I will snap a few pics and post them up and as I install or modify then install them. ;) I thought as a base line and with the instrutions it might be a little easier but time will tell.
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I don't know if my hauler is just heavy or what, but I don't get much bouncing from it. I am curious how you would mount the shock to the arm on a torsion type axle.
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I don't know if my hauler is just heavy or what, but I don't get much bouncing from it. I am curious how you would mount the shock to the arm on a torsion type axle.
Ditto.
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I would imagine similar to a vw beam arm. on really poorly poored or rough roads like IA or oklahoma I do get some bouncing and some is to be expected but it got so bad in IA is started bouncing us out of are seats kind of so that's why on the shocks plus to help with lean in the wind.
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imo YOU WON'T SEE ANY BENEFIT from the shocks in the wind.
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what i am referring to is when you get hit by a side blast and the camper or trailer leans over then a wind block and it stands up and bounces off the springs a bit and back which isn't that extreme but slowing it down is the goal anyway and minimizing any hop from rough roads.
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Glad to say I have no issues like that. Maybe my 43 foot low rider is heavy enough to not be affected like that. On the way to/from Yuma following fast and his tall riding rig I didn't notice his being pushed over like that either. Bottom line,never been an issue with anything I ever pulled other than a very light 16' camper trailer. Hated that thing.
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I have not had an issue with bounceing. Now I have experieced it, but only on really crappy roads Iowa, and Oklahoma. I don't hardly feel the wind effects. But I have a long truck, crew cab long box. In all my years running to get cars for the dealership I learned that the longer the tow rig, the better it was going down the road. Just the big footprint.
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I haven't had any problems with this trailer either cause I haven't pulled it with my truck yet but with deano's truck on the crappy rd in iowa it did hop up and down a bit but never a side to side bounce of course his 5th wheel plate was locked down too, but I did feel that with the 35' bumper pull and just hoping with this upgrade never to feel it with this unit. of course this TH is 11'6" tall and the old one was 12'3" tall where the cargo trailers are more like 8'6" plus say 10" for ac? the TH's have taller side walls and wind has more control, I just want to slow the effects down and I know this will smooth the ride out. fabbr yours is torsion axles which are less bouncy than leaf's but dunes are leafs. the bounce forward and back was the worst imo and I never experienced that the bumper pull just the swaying issue which imo was due to too much tounge weight since they set it at 18%! so with the rail backed it the weight was amplified. we'll see, i'm just hoping it smooths it out for the most part like pulling on I80 through ne.
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:i
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I posted the info and a q or 2 on a camper site to see what others have experienced, this was one reply.
dsrace wrote:
there seems to be real debate on whats better, st or truck tire but doesn't a truck tire have more side wall flex even the 3 ply side wall truck tires?
Yes, you are right. Bottom line is the LT tire has much greater capacity / reliability testing requirements via FMVSS than a ST tire. This means that in the real world the capacity numbers on an LT tire have a built in safety margin between 10 and 20% where as an ST tire capacity is the maximum capacity with little to no safety margin built in. The other important thing to note in the LT Vs. ST battle royale is that ST tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph. LT's are rated for higher speed limits seen in states like Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Texas and others....
Personally, I don't own any ST tire now and will only buy them under duress.. I did run the ST's that came on my Rage'N with one valve stem core problem from its birth in January 2008 to August 2011. I don't even have ST tires on my 3-rail dirt bike trailer -it has P- metric Falken tires that match up to the 2K axle rating. You do have to derate P-Metric tires for trailer use. Formula is "Capacity divided by 1.1 = Trailer capacity"
Back to the shock issue. My trailer has had Transmaster ST235/80R16 LRE 3500# rated tires and the current Bridgstone M895 LT235/85R16 LRE 3042# rated tires on it with the same shocks and towing stance set up. Axles are 6K rated. The trailer rides better with the LT's than the ST's. The ST tires "bounced" multiple times after hitting a roadway irregularity. Not an uncontrolled bounce but noticeable. The LT's don't bounce at all. they are calm and controlled. If you put both these tires side by side and inspected them, flexed them and lifted them -the choice is easy even for a layman without experience in fleet tire purchasing....Even the sales guy at Discount Tire finally understood what I was saying/doing once the tires were side by side.
Tire temps with my IR gun are lower too. Not a great difference seen but lower.
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Better have a talk with your insurer before you go down that road choosing LT over ST tires..................
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If you want air...... http://kelderman.com
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try this.... http://kelderman.com/product/rv/trailer
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try again.................
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Better have a talk with your insurer before you go down that road choosing LT over ST tires..................
hadn't planned on changing just thought his info was interesting. that $400 price for the shock brackets included the kyb shocks too btw. everyone that has added shocks says it was a noticeable difference and would'nt go back. that's what I thought I would read I'm sure I'll feel the same! I can see what he is saying as far as speed rating goes and from what I have read most are going to 17" rims for the shorter side wall I guess to minimize side wall flex. this would be a costly change and I don't see the need for it in my app but still interesting reading anyways.
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try this.... http://kelderman.com/product/rv/trailer
thanks for the links but not what I was wanting to do, just shock absorption.
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To be honest I've never had any issue of any kind with how ,all but one ,of my trailers have pulled. Only reason I am interested is to keep stuff in my cabinets. LOL!!!! I know shit is bouncing all over the place. Shocks would help IMO immensely with that.
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BTW,ST tires should never be run at anything other than max PSI.
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no tire should be run over it's spec! I actually run all my st's 5psi under max when loaded but that's my preference. I can say going from a D range to E range does add some noticeable bounce but not bad. I too would like to keep stuff in the cabinets rofl this should do the trick. ask dunebound 69 about keeping his organizers in the cabinets! LMAO LMAO rofl rofl it wasn't funny to him but I had to laugh when he opened he door and saw that mess. lol oh that one sucked!
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Ya,keeping stuff in the cabinets is the only reason why I'm interested in adding shocks to the trailer. I'm thinking just adding to the front and rear of a triple torsion would help tremendously. Might not even be needed ??????
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Or you could take Obama's advice kick pay in some extra taxes and maybe they'ed pave the damn roads. Now there's on in N Ala, the concrete rd is paved just right at 63mph all you'd need is spurs to think your on a bull. And I've got shocks.
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Several Most around here like that.
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before we aired down the tires the road is so bad in IA while deano and I were talking, we were bouncing so bad in the truck it sounded like we were trying to talk through a fan! after we aired down 50% of that was gone. no the way the TH is set up they put more weight on the pin so they can use lighter axles ( bs1 ) which I new but with out weight behind the axle counter balancing it, well it's going to bounce a bit really more like small bucking motion but like I said once we crossed the state line smooth as silk! not all the roads are great by any stretch of the imagination so it will help none the less but I'm sure I'll still find some roads to test it out from time to time but hey what do you do. there is a reason the high end units come with them already installed! the extra 6" of width is very nice compared to the 30wp bumper drag we had but the bathroom is smaller actually I liked the lay out of the other better but this one has room for the toys and I shouldn't have to change tires to get in but I will have to make quick release brackets for the jacknife couch beds in the rear cause they are mounted in the back up against the door opening but that'll actually be an easy fix once the weather gets nicer and if I don't get done by spring oh well they will just come out for the trip cause my beds in the front so I don't care where the kids sleep!! rofl
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Found this on the interwebb just now. Lot better price. Not rubber cushioned like the 600 $ one but still greaseable. And at 162$ not bad. This one is for the triple axle trailers.
http://www.easternmarine.com/hd-triple-axle-suspension-kit-k71-360-00 (http://www.easternmarine.com/hd-triple-axle-suspension-kit-k71-360-00)
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Found this on the interwebb just now. Lot better price. Not rubber cushioned like the 600 $ one but still greaseable. And at 162$ not bad. This one is for the triple axle trailers.
http://www.easternmarine.com/hd-triple-axle-suspension-kit-k71-360-00 (http://www.easternmarine.com/hd-triple-axle-suspension-kit-k71-360-00)
ya that's just a wet bolt kit and very important at the very min but the ez flex is definitely better imo nice find