Author Topic: AR-51 build  (Read 136839 times)

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Offline Carlriddle

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #210 on: December 10, 2018, 05:50:15 AM »
You guys,  LMAO LMAO LMAO

Be sure ya leave enough room for the turbo and header in front, cause that will be next step.  Like drugs, little bit is a blast first time, then more more more more!!!!
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #211 on: December 10, 2018, 05:56:35 AM »
Yep, the fuel pump has that internal regulator.  No worries, as I will use an external regulator.

So I cut the car in half...  That sucked.  LOL

I did some initial math and a CAD-ish layout.
24" equal length arms, 10" center to center vertically on the chassis and the uprights.  At 40*, this gave me 21" of travel with 5" of ground to chassis with a 30" tire.  I will probably strap it to 20".  Huge improvement from the 15" I had.  Not sure yet if I want to run that added radius arm that goes forward or not.  I increased the width of the inner mounts to 16"  This was set up with 0* camber and 0* toe.

A question regarding non-plunging CV's.  I've heard different measurements.  Seems like the non plunging units are 1/8" to 1/4" narrower than the plunging counterparts?
Hell, I may just order one up to mock things up with.  So far, i'm planning on taking the pivot points of the upper and lower straight through the middle of the CV.

One last question.  Heim joints or bushings at the outer pivot?  Pros and cons? 

OUCH!
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2018, 05:57:45 AM »
You guys,  LMAO LMAO LMAO

Be sure ya leave enough room for the turbo and header in front, cause that will be next step.  Like drugs, little bit is a blast first time, then more more more more!!!!

I've got 7" from the header to the firewall of the chassis for a turbski location.
 8)

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #213 on: December 10, 2018, 08:45:51 AM »
That should work.  Yes a little narrower, 1/8" sounds about right.  You will want to use cv boot flanges with over cv type boots to get the angle you desire.  The flanges will require work, to allow cv balls to slip thru.  I did have luck with boot staying on smooth cv, maybe others did.  I use boots from front of the ford f150 think its 02 but same as the stub axles I run on outside of car. 

This should rip!!
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #214 on: December 10, 2018, 08:54:48 AM »
def want the radius rod forward! heims on all ends for sustainability for sure! always put the pivot through the center and 1/8" narrower but order 6 up ( always want a spare or two) and get it done!!  ;D ;D
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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #215 on: December 10, 2018, 09:11:26 AM »
btw......it is my personal opinion that 35* is prob the max down angle you want to go. that requires a considerable clearencing of the over the cv boot retainer. like carl said the f150 boots are great on the NP 930's. now on that forward radius rod......imo climb half way up the front side lower a arm, weld it to the arm with heim mounted on frame. draw a line from the center of the axle at the cv pivot ,at a 45* angle back to the frame for the mount point. where it welds to the lower a arm, weld a tube from there to the rear leg of that arm.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #216 on: December 10, 2018, 09:13:14 AM »
Nothing at all wrong with delrin bushings. For that matter,I'm in favor of their use wherever possible such as inner pivots of the arms.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #217 on: December 11, 2018, 07:13:10 AM »
All valid points.
Iv'e had good luck with delrin on the inner pivots.  I didn't know if having heim joints and a little means of adjustment for toe and camber would possibly mess up the plunge.  My OCD in making things complicated is to incorporate a tie rod for toe and using uniballs on the outer pivots.  Almost like a front upright? 

I will re calculate to 35* and re check my math too.  I've got to account for the 70 tooth pizza pan sprocket too.  That should be appx. 14" in diameter.  My 60 tooth is around 12-ish.
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #218 on: December 11, 2018, 08:39:04 AM »
Delrin inner pivots and heims on outer as you describe is a good way to go IF you are inclined to actually do the adjustments to get the best handling. In the sand it will make little to no difference in how it is aligned in the rear but for dirt or hard pack it certainly will. If it ever hits pavement it will definitely be a bonus.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #219 on: December 11, 2018, 11:16:21 AM »
username enemy has an a arm rear end with tie rod. he has a turbo busa with jeffco rev unit in it as well.

delrin is a very good choice and still doable on the bottom for sure. if you used heims on the upper ( frame side) then you could still make a very minor adjustment. so why not use a 2" longer axle with 35* down angle?? i ran 28" axle on my turbo busa. enemy does too and carlriddle as well.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #220 on: December 11, 2018, 12:18:33 PM »
If you use a 3 point attachment to the hub carrier,one top and 2 bottom ,you can still run bushings inboard top and bottom and still have toe and camber adjustment. Lots of ways to do it. Pick your poison.

I guess I hadn't paid enough attention to enemy's a arms. I wasn't aware of his having a radius rod . Honestly,I'd widen the inner pivot points and ditch the radius rod. I have had zero issues with that. Plenty strong.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #221 on: December 11, 2018, 12:24:08 PM »
As a side note,I have snagged the same tree in the trails twice now,at probably 30 mph . Both times it instantly stopped me ,slamming myself and my passenger into the belts rather abruptly  ;) . First time I bent the mid board hub carrier and I had 4 heim attachment. Second time nothing bent  but the bolts that attach the mid board hub to the carrier pulled about 1/2 of the threads out of the hub and that was with the 3 heim arrangement as I described above. Neither time did the a arms bend or tweak the frame attechment points. IMO,no need for a radius rod unless the frame attachment points are too close together.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 12:30:12 PM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #222 on: December 12, 2018, 05:35:56 PM »
If you use a 3 point attachment to the hub carrier,one top and 2 bottom ,you can still run bushings inboard top and bottom and still have toe and camber adjustment. Lots of ways to do it. Pick your poison.

I guess I hadn't paid enough attention to enemy's a arms. I wasn't aware of his having a radius rod . Honestly,I'd widen the inner pivot points and ditch the radius rod. I have had zero issues with that. Plenty strong.

as long as those arms go into the carrier straight then yes that would work. 
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #223 on: December 26, 2018, 11:14:40 AM »
So, after my highly technical "CAD" modeling, I have the center section drawn up, I've drawn up the full suspension cycle using a 24" axle pivot, 24" pivot points on my arms, 10" spread I was able to get just shy of 20" of travel with 38* of angle.  The below drawing is the front bulkhead section.  As you can see the notches for the chain clearance.  The rear bulkhead will have those omitted.  I will use the same means of adjustment as the AR had. 


I literally drew the entire back half of the car.  I even "modeled" where the front sprocket will be so I could see where the chain will go through the bulkhead.  I also got the points where the back of the engine will be mounted.  The mid rail of the car will be adjusted a little so the lines of the car will match the new back half.  I even mocked up the chassis shock location too!  I will be using the 12" stroke shocks I have and I have a 1.66 to 1 motion ratio.  The lower rear arms have been mocked up as well.  I had to make sure the CV will clear the arms at full droop.  It's tight, but it looks like it will work out! 




I think I will be buying steel and water cutting tomorrow and friday!

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #224 on: December 26, 2018, 07:53:57 PM »
Nice job. Nuttin' beats good planning.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

 

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