Twin cooling fans............wiring?

[robndeb]

As soon as I start the engine, I turn on the fans, they stay on constantly.

[Boostinjdm]

Very true boost but again why fix something thats not broken.

I was looking at the current draw as the main problem needing an answer.  I think the fans are prolly fine, just poorly installed.  You might consider folding the mounting plat in the center so that each fan trys to pull the air from around the outside of the seats.  Those two fans, even if they are cheapies should provide enough air if installed correctly.

[fabr]

They ARE providing enough air AS IS.The thing stays in the correct water temp range.What more is needed? Nothing. True there may be better ways to shroud fans and if we want to turn this into a thread about best practices fine but Rob does not have a problem IMO in the least so WHY do anything different?

[fabr]

As soon as I start the engine, I turn on the fans, they stay on constantly.

WIre it direct to the ignition switch through a relay.Rewire the fans to be parallel if you wish and forget it.No need for anything more unless you just want to do some sheetmetal for practice.  IMO ,again,don't fix what's not broken.

[Boostinjdm]

True there may be better ways to shroud fans and if we want to turn this into a thread about best practices fine but Rob does not have a problem IMO in the least so WHY do anything different?

He asked for help which tells me he thinks he has a problem.  I thought you were a stickler for doing things right?  The shroud in my opinion is the problem.  Fix that and it will run cooler, draw less power, and the fans will last longer before wearing out.  Even if it doesn't need "fixed"  I would say it would be a good improvement anyway.  If your brakes hardly work but still slow you down, is that good enough?  Or would you fix them?

Here is a simple experiment that will either prove I am right or wrong.  Wire the fans up parallel.  put your meter on them and turn them on, record reading.  Then unbolt the shroud and hold it away from the radiator so the air can flow freely and take another reading, I bet it draws less amps and you should be able to hear the fans running faster.  simple and free way to tell what corrective measures need to be taken.

[robndeb]

WIre it direct to the ignition switch through a relay.Rewire the fans to be parallel if you wish and forget it.No need for anything more unless you just want to do some sheetmetal for practice.  IMO ,again,don't fix what's not broken.

I'm glad that my temps are within normal specs. I'll keep things as they are and just replace the fans with new ones. I don't like the way that they sound, slight grinding noises. Now just to find the best performing fans that draw the least amount of power.

[Nutz4sand]

Being I am not there seeing this I gotta say a couple things. First. I do agree a good bit with Fabr that it seems to be ok and thus might not need more love.

BUT as noted in another thread on this board IF the fans are wired in series like you first mentioned and one of them DOES fail the other will stop. (Unless it shorts directly across the bad fan then the remaining fan will get 12 volts! Which would help it draw more air. I would not count on this!!)

Going to parellel as you tried made current an issue it seemed on your charging system.  Also noted with lights on and parellel it was having issues. So that might limit night riding. If you do that. They boot us out of the Silver Lake dunes here in Michigan right after dark so you cannot do much night riding. We used to get out earlier to get in line (yah we have a tiny parking lot here and have to get in line to get in if there is any real crowd. It sucks!) But when I first went to Glamis we would go out a lot at night and it was intensly fun!

One other thing I noticed that I did not see was you never mentioned what the ambient AIR temps were while you were riding around? (I don't think I missed that?? I even relooked) If it was cooler those days then a few degrees cooler will make a buggy run a good bit cooler. But you get a hot day it might not cool as well. Forget about a good run some night when your friends want to go and its hot. That would be a bummer. (assuming fans wired in parrellel and trying to run the lights. I know you put them back to series. But will series cool enough on hot days/nights??) 

Plus if your taxing the electrical system and burn it out you might be sitting a good ways from camp. If you do not have someone to tow you out and leave your rail there to walk out I have heard of dipweeds finding brokedown rails at Glamis and stealing them or at least stuff off of them. Not good. Tires are easy to steal and hard to ID on another rail racing by.

You might find fans that bolt to the shroud you have just as it is if you simply replace them. But if not and you need to modify it why not do a bit more while at it?

You could make the whole system a little better and thats never a bad thing if you tired some simple mods to the shroud as mentioned. Including a separator strip that would isolate the two fans in the middle of the shroud so that you could run only one if needed and take it easy to get back to camp. (A soft strip of seal that goes right to the fins and touches the shroud between the fans) Plus the mentioned ways of allowing the fans to draw air through the whole radiator area. Not just the fan diameter. (Edit: this should have read push air not drawn in this case.)

 Get lower current draw fans that are set up to be pushers (the blades MADE to be a pusher. That makes a big differance in air flow!). If the place you get parts from says they do not exist then ask for better help or go to another store.   

As noted it may be fine with just new fans if these are ailing but the little bit of work to make it more reliable would be worth it VS the extra heat. Plus if you ever try to boost motor power then you will need more cooling for sure. Even a day of hill climbing drags as it is now with friends may make it run hot and make you sit and watch and cool down while they play. Its a matter of if that may be ok with you IF it happens to happen. But it would be more fun to have it do what you want. Not the other way around. (Sorry Fabr!    ) Its just my thoughts on it.   



 

[robndeb]

The fans are definitely being replaced. I will wire the new fans in parallel, just for safety. More charging capacity is my real issue. Who makes a good high output stator?  Are they easily replaced?

[fabr]

Being I am not there seeing this I gotta say a couple things. First. I do agree a good bit with Fabr that it seems to be ok and thus might not need more love.

BUT as noted in another thread on this board IF the fans are wired in series like you first mentioned and one of them DOES fail the other will stop. (Unless it shorts directly across the bad fan then the remaining fan will get 12 volts! Which would help it draw more air. I would not count on this!!)

Going to parellel as you tried made current an issue it seemed on your charging system.  Also noted with lights on and parellel it was having issues. So that might limit night riding. If you do that. They boot us out of the Silver Lake dunes here in Michigan right after dark so you cannot do much night riding. We used to get out earlier to get in line (yah we have a tiny parking lot here and have to get in line to get in if there is any real crowd. It sucks!) But when I first went to Glamis we would go out a lot at night and it was intensly fun!

One other thing I noticed that I did not see was you never mentioned what the ambient AIR temps were while you were riding around? (I don't think I missed that?? I even relooked) If it was cooler those days then a few degrees cooler will make a buggy run a good bit cooler. But you get a hot day it might not cool as well. Forget about a good run some night when your friends want to go and its hot. That would be a bummer. (assuming fans wired in parrellel and trying to run the lights. I know you put them back to series. But will series cool enough on hot days/nights??) 

Plus if your taxing the electrical system and burn it out you might be sitting a good ways from camp. If you do not have someone to tow you out and leave your rail there to walk out I have heard of dipweeds finding brokedown rails at Glamis and stealing them or at least stuff off of them. Not good. Tires are easy to steal and hard to ID on another rail racing by.

You might find fans that bolt to the shroud you have just as it is if you simply replace them. But if not and you need to modify it why not do a bit more while at it?

You could make the whole system a little better and thats never a bad thing if you tired some simple mods to the shroud as mentioned. Including a separator strip that would isolate the two fans in the middle of the shroud so that you could run only one if needed and take it easy to get back to camp. (A soft strip of seal that goes right to the fins and touches the shroud between the fans) Plus the mentioned ways of allowing the fans to draw air through the whole radiator area. Not just the fan diameter. (Edit: this should have read push air not drawn in this case.)

 Get lower current draw fans that are set up to be pushers (the blades MADE to be a pusher. That makes a big differance in air flow!). If the place you get parts from says they do not exist then ask for better help or go to another store.  

As noted it may be fine with just new fans if these are ailing but the little bit of work to make it more reliable would be worth it VS the extra heat. Plus if you ever try to boost motor power then you will need more cooling for sure. Even a day of hill climbing drags as it is now with friends may make it run hot and make you sit and watch and cool down while they play. Its a matter of if that may be ok with you IF it happens to happen. But it would be more fun to have it do what you want. Not the other way around. (Sorry Fabr!    ) Its just my thoughts on it.  



 

All good advise and can't argue with it.

[Boostinjdm]

All the power you could want.
http://hayabusaalternator.com/home.html

[robndeb]

Sweet, a bit pricey though.
Maybe if I have enough left over from my tax return.

[Admin]

The fans are definitely being replaced. I will wire the new fans in parallel, just for safety. More charging capacity is my real issue. Who makes a good high output stator?  Are they easily replaced?

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/press/2007-03-06High_Output_Hayabusa_Kit.pdf

270.00 bux....

Rick's Motorsport Electrics
30 Owens Ct.   Suite 2
Hampstead NH 03841

Toll Free    800-521-0277

[Jerry]

Hey Bugpac is there anything you can't get or find....

[robndeb]

I got bored today and tore apart the fan motors. The halves of the motors needed to be pried apart, some kind of glue was used to seal them. One motor's brushes were almost worn down to nothing. The other one looked new, just full of dirt. I sprayed the good one out really well with electrical cleaner and re-lubed the bearings and reassembled it. I modified my original shroud to house the single fan in the center, and since the fan gets all 12 volts now, seems to put out more air than when both of the fans were wired in series. I started the engine, turned on the single fan and turned on the lights, all good on the volt gauge. I let it idle for a half of an hour and it never got above 180 degrees. I can't wait till President's weekend in Glamis to test it out.

[Boostinjdm]

did it get hot idling before?  sounds like you got a workable solution.