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Author Topic: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results  (Read 31668 times)

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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2011, 08:41:43 AM »
Quote from: Lance-W on May 26, 2011, 08:26:15 AM
The bearing grade PEEK (Bearing Grade, Ketron HPV) shown here says "easy machining"    http://www.boedeker.com/peek_p.htm
Yes. I see this grade as being a better choice possibly but similar to the one you show.  http://www.cncplastics.com/PDFs/peek/Bearing%20Grade%20PEEK%20Standard.pdf   It has moly,teflon and carbon fiber at 10% each blended in. Also is a bit softer at only 13,000PSI compressive strength.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2011, 08:42:38 AM »
Quote from: Lance-W on May 26, 2011, 08:39:42 AM
You want to ask for an Applications Engineer.  That usually gets you past the sales weenies !
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Lance-W

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2011, 08:45:13 AM »
Heat deflection temperature 325 degrees.   Wonder what exactly their definition of heat deflection is..................

Quote from: masterfabr on May 26, 2011, 08:41:43 AM
Yes. I see this grade as being a better choice possibly but similar to the one you show.  http://www.cncplastics.com/PDFs/peek/Bearing%20Grade%20PEEK%20Standard.pdf   It has moly,teflon and carbon fiber at 10% each blended in. Also is a bit softer at only 13,000PSI compressive strength.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2011, 09:30:09 AM »
My understanding of heat deflection temp is the temp at which deflection occurs due to temperature or when physical properties are lowered due to temps.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline fastcorvairs

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 09:58:35 AM »
Master

Is the area that the lovejoy runs in completly sealed.  If so how about running oil from the trans or the engine thru it?  Put a trans pump on it. 
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 10:12:56 AM »
Not sealed or I would do just that. No way to seal it either.  thumb down I see no way of doing it either. I'm not really thinking temps were the issue.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Lance-W

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 10:30:32 AM »
Torlon?

I went back to Boedecker and found a table you can sort by properties.  Torlon has high temp (500) capability and 12000 psi

http://www.boedeker.com/mtable.htm
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Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2011, 10:42:31 AM »
I remember when I was little(well I was 12lbs when born, so never really little) crushing a superball (you know bubble gum machine stuff) in a vise would make small slivers that looked "cut".So you may just have a pressure issue.I wonder if going to a more flexible rubber rather than PU(or hard material in general)would work?Let it deform and spring back?

Actually now that I think about it how about vulcanizing the rubber between your drives?Remove any room for rubbing?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 10:45:05 AM by Hammerworks »
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 10:59:10 AM »
Yes! I think the blown up superball is a good example of what the shredded spider looks like. I agree that may well be what caused the destruction.  Can't vulcanize the spider to the jaws due to assembly issues.  I have used Flexane PU to cast parts assemblies that took a beating in the past(custom shock eyes for a McPherson Strut suspension top mount) but do not believe it capable of this. Unfortunately there are no off the shelf spiders available except the PU ones.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2011, 11:21:56 AM »
Maybe you have a clearance problem.  Are you sure the spider didn't squish out enough to hit the housing and roll off pieces?  Squeezing out .080" wouldn't surprise me under that load.
Does the Peek stuff have to be machined or could you WJ it from the correct thickness sheet?
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LiveWire

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2011, 12:15:25 PM »
I can also see .080 getting used up quick once there is pressure on it. I wonder if you shave a little off the fingers if you could press a sleeve on there to hold it from touching something not moving at the same speed. You could take more off one side of the coupler so that the sleeve was only touching the other side, not both.

I think it would increase the capacity too. I would bet that if you put a super ball in a tube, it would take a hell of a lot more force to make it break apart than squeezed between 2 flat surfaces.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2011, 12:46:44 PM »
I see both of your points .I have seriously considered them. Boost ,IMO,if the spider is extruding and rubbing off (and it may well be) then clearance isn't the issue as much as the extruding. LW,I am considering the sleeve thing right now. If the spider IS extruding then containing it might stop the problem. Boost,the WJ won't work as the jaws are curved 3 dimensionally.  The more I think about it I think I'll look into various elastomers.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2011, 02:43:22 PM »
Say it extrudes out far enough to touch the inside of the tube(I think thats what you mean)can you imagine the friction/heat that would cause?Instant rubber brakes.

Looking forward to seeing how this is resolved and your success with the project.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2011, 04:04:30 PM »
There was really no evidence of it contacting the tube ID. The spider COULD have extruded enough though to allow the jaw tips to act like a pain of nipper jaws as the torque is applied and reapplied repeatedly and slowly eat away at the spider possibly. The factory lovejoy jaws have slightly radiused tips and the ones I'm using don't. A lot of possibilities . Gonna take some R&D to cure.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Engineer

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Re: Busa/VW091 Adapter Testing Results
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2011, 05:06:49 PM »
Quote from: masterfabr on May 25, 2011, 07:08:30 PM
Maybe I spoke too soon. ;D ;D Pic 1 is of a good spider of the strongest (green 298 lb.ft. nominal/597 max)available polyurethane spider for the curved jaw lovejoy the VW091/busa adapter uses. Pic 2 is of what I used-or whats left of it anyway(red 298 lb.ft. nominal/479 max ) . The normal/maximum temperature for the red is 212F-248F.  The green is slightly higher at 230F-266F. They are both rated for 7100 rpm . The busa at 10,500 rpm has a countershaft speed of6579 rpm so that is well within spec. Anyone think that at the current busa power level of approx 220 HP the green spider can survive? The red one sure as hell didn't!  rofl thumb down thumb down eyes My other option is to make my own spider from some other material. I don't know if this was a capacity or temperature issue. Opinions are solicited!

Dayum.  Catostrophic failure.....  ;D

As tight as the clearance is between the jaws and the case not very large of parts could have gotten out.  So if they grew out past the jaws then they would start burning on the case.  Can't see that in the picture but can you see rubbing on the removed part of the tube?  Probably not the way the outside of the jaws don't show anything rubbing.  O course if it was gone on your first trip then corrosion may have hid the evidence since.

Whatever material you put back in, I suggest running it for a short time then pulling the cover and taking a look before the evidence is ground to powder.  :o
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