DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: fabr on September 27, 2010, 08:07:14 PM
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Couple pics of the exploded spring slider and the cause. Blue loctite is apparently unacceptable in this application. eyes Note the absent setscrew. It was one of only 2 out of 8 still in place,3 were gone entirely. . The collars worked down and when landing like DS and I did it was all over. Sooooo,what's the trick to retaining the damn things? Red loctite?
THEN there was the flexalite fan/shroud. I'm calling them tomorrow.The blades were flexing enough that they were hitting the struts mounting the motors. Then the blades fractured and the mount also broke as can be sort of seen in the last pic. There were little square chunks missing from all remaining blades so I trimmed all the blades off about 3/8 inch to clear. Still lost 3 more blades.
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Sorry to hear! Hope all works out well. I'm still waiting for video!!!!!!
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I'm going back in a couple weeks if all goes well. In all honesty with all I had going on I didn't even think to turn the cameras on. :-[ :-[ eyes :-[ :-[ thumb down
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I've had one of my blades fail on that same fan once. I thought it was from a cornstalk getting wedged in there but now I'm not so sure.. thumb down I haven't lost one since, but I do carry a spare blade assembly.
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It was obvious that they hit the struts. Push the blade down approx 1/4" and it was a perfect match on each blade. We could hear them hitting but couldn't figure it out at first where it was coming from. I wonder if the blades could be mounted a 1/4" out further? Are they set screw retained? I haven't looked yet.
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At least the radiator didn't get hurt....
Time for a custom fan motor mount?
I hope someone would chime in about the crossover collars. I can't imagine why they would want to loosen the set screws so badly?
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I've not had the problem before either. As to the fan/shroud I'll let you guys know what flexalite has to say.
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It was obvious that they hit the struts. Push the blade down approx 1/4" and it was a perfect match on each blade. We could hear them hitting but couldn't figure it out at first where it was coming from. I wonder if the blades could be mounted a 1/4" out further? Are they set screw retained? I haven't looked yet.
C-clip with wave washer mounted, roll-pin on the shaft
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hmmmmmm
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Gees Fabr that's no f n good Mate! I'll hafta watch my shocks :o I wondered why you didn't seem too happy last night now I know why! eyes I hope things get better for ya bud.
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It was no biggy but it did make me take it a bit easier than I wanted to the last day.
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How bout some loctite on the collar itself? Wheres the pic of the you chiseled off in 27 pieces? Still a successful trip I'd say, and for those who have not seen that bike to vw coupler, pics dont do it justice. Its slicker than owl shit.
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Ya,that pic was of the good one. Heheheeee. We talked about making some from aluminu but with further thought I'm not going to. IMO,if the collars had not moved there would be no issue with the plastic sliders and the plastic is also a bearing material of some sort. Delrin maybe or something similar I'm pretty sure. Loctite on the collar may/may not work well due to the large thread clearances.Loctite won't fill large gaps BUT your suggestion makes me now think about using loctite liquid pipe sealant. It's possibly thick enough ,sets up firm but pliable.
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I have to report on the very prompt and no hassle way the issue with the fans has been handled by Flex-a-lite. They knew right off about the blade issue. Explained i needed to modify the blade tips by clipping the corners to avoid contact with the motor struts. They are aware of it occurring on high HP dragsters due to G loads and vibration. They are sending out 2 new fanblades and a new shroud. He tried to get me a complete unit but I'm happy with getting the blades and shroud no charge.
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Along with the collar coming loose with 2 set screws, which is crazy, and moving itself down. There was also the chamfer on that collar. How about a snuggy washer with flat edge to make contact with. Or turn the collar down to no more chamfer.
I take back them having to change their name to Flex-a-lot. Glad they made it easy to deal.
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Trying to follow along.......What collars are these? The ones between the two different springs, or the ones at the top that set preload? I've got a solution if they're the ones at the top. Got a pic of the full shock so I can see what you're talking about.
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first post shows all you need
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first post shows all you need
Still not following....at least refresh my memory on what shocks you're using and I'll go look and the manufacturer's site. eyes
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Pic #2. See the collar with 2 holes for setscrews,one missing? It sets the crossover point for the primary spring. The setscrews are backing off and letting the collar screw down. At some point the collarwill be below the coil bind point and when you go full bump the spring slider you see in pic1 will be forced over the collar-exploding the slider. The fix needed is a better way of retaining the collar adjustment other than the 2 small setscrews that have very little support to actually torque them down. There is very little clearance to do much though other than possibly a 2 piece set of collars similar to the preload collars. Seems to me to be the way to go.
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From what I can gather (and imagine) the slider typically is floating below the collar. Once the softer spring compresses a set amount, the slider makes contact with the collar and the primary spring takes over from there. Correct? So that collar can take a pretty hard hit from time to time causing the set screws to lose their set and allow the collar to vibrate and work it's way down the threads. Then the collar take a really hard hit and the slider gives up.
Your solution is to have two collars and tighten them against each other like double nutting a bolt?
I'll offer another solution. If you know where you want your collars, why not make a spacer like a crush sleeve that reaches all the way to the top? That way the few threads in the collar and the set screws aren't taking all the abuse that loosens them in the first place.
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I agree w/Boost kick Order 2nd set of collar tighten together w/triple loctite. Could just tig weld the bastards together for added safty. nono nono LMAO rofl LMAO nono nono
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From what I can gather (and imagine) the slider typically is floating below the collar. Once the softer spring compresses a set amount, the slider makes contact with the collar and the primary spring takes over from there. Correct? So that collar can take a pretty hard hit from time to time causing the set screws to lose their set and allow the collar to vibrate and work it's way down the threads. Then the collar take a really hard hit and the slider gives up.
Your solution is to have two collars and tighten them against each other like double nutting a bolt?
I'll offer another solution. If you know where you want your collars, why not make a spacer like a crush sleeve that reaches all the way to the top? That way the few threads in the collar and the set screws aren't taking all the abuse that loosens them in the first place.
yesNo,there should be no "hit" ever. Only way that is if the spring stacks solid. That's what happens when the collar works it;s way down. The spring should not stack solid. Maybe a collarof longer length allowing more material in the setscrew area would work. The collars need to retain adjustability for varying conditions.I'm thinking the 2 piece collars like the preload collars would be best. Maybe not tho.
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Any time the slider makes contact with the collar, it's experiencing a "hit". A small one, but a "hit" none the less. These little hits can loosen a set screw in short order. (you should know this, it doesn't only apply to shocks) Especially if the collar to shock body threads have a lot of play. I think your two collars tightened together will work, but if the threads are sloppy I would either get longer collars (more threads) or make some collars with less slop. Doing both would be the best.
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Another good reason to run single rate with a tender..........
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Any time the slider makes contact with the collar, it's experiencing a "hit". A small one, but a "hit" none the less. These little hits can loosen a set screw in short order. (you should know this, it doesn't only apply to shocks) Especially if the collar to shock body threads have a lot of play. I think your two collars tightened together will work, but if the threads are sloppy I would either get longer collars (more threads) or make some collars with less slop. Doing both would be the best.
DO you even know how the preload collars are designed on a Fox shock? Sloppy threads are a benefit as a tight fit will bind with mud/sand/muck. There is a mating chamfer on both that easily lock one to the other. they don't just jam against each other. They wedge together securely. Have you ever actually had a Fox coilover in your hands? It doesn't sound like it. BTW ,I do not agree there is a hit at all that affect the set screws. I do not believe that the slider contacting it has any effect on it coming loose as the shock body threads take any hit. The spring however does rub on the crossover collar in both bump and droop and ,IMO,is the culprit along with the easy deflection of the collar that defies proper torqueing of the setscrews.
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Another good reason to run single rate with a tender..........
IMO the choice is decided on the cars use whether single or dual rate would be better.In effect a single with tender is the same as a dual rate,just a variation of the same principle.One uses a slider and the other doesn't. Difference being the ability to choose/adjust where the crossover occurs with a slider involved.
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On King shocks they two separate collars that jam together to hold the secondary collar stop in place. What about getting 2 more fox collars and doing that same thing? 8) 8) 8)
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Just like fox does on the ride height jam collars on the top of the shocks