DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => "AP" Member Project Logs => Topic started by: boltz on January 18, 2017, 09:30:23 AM
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Ok.... After the Joyner was stolen for the second time I decided to get rid of it. Part because I got tired of going and getting it from thieves and second because everything was gonna have to be gutted to end up with what I wanted in the end. So with that we are now the proud owners of a VW Bug.
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Progress so far. I had initially decided to get all the lights rewired and working and get it street legal and drive it back and forth to work while coming up with tools and parts to start the project. However upon further inspection of the floor pans found large holes and a ton of rotten metal. So off with the body. Motor was running rough so i pulled it and took it to a friend of mine. After reattaching the rocker arms the motor runs like a top. I have since reinstalled the motor and am waiting on new floor pans to arrive to start the rebuild of the floor.
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Next is to decide on drive train before i get to far into planning the cage. I have a 383 stroker that i would like to use for this. I have done a bunch of reading on the stock trans and i do not believe it will hold up to the torque the stroker makes. while researching trans i lookied into 6 ribs and into vanagon transmission alternitaves and man there is a massive amount of people on both sides of the fence as to if either of those will handle the torque and horse power of the 383. I have looked at Mendeola's and they are out of my price range. What do you guys think? Will a setup such as a 091, 002 handle the 383 or should i start saving for something like a Mendeola?
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An 091/094(vanagon) with all Weddle internals will hold up. Reverse is iffy at best. with an 091 .The 094 reverse is MUCH stronger. A fully built 091 will run $5K plus or minus a bit. All other VW trans will not last.
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Well that is cheaper than a Mendeola...lol
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The mendi's use the same gear stacks as the vw's.
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Hmm. That's interesting to know. What about Porsche trans? Like the G50? They are for higher horse power. Maybe I should consider doing something like a 2.5 Subaru with a turbo. Not as heavy and less torque. What's your thoughts?
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I also hear the service on a mendi is pricey and recommended like every 5k.
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Any leads on where I could look for a used built 094 if they exist? I know where I can get a stock 094. Are they a bear to tear into? Trans work is new to me. So not sure about building one myself.
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Next is to decide on drive train before i get to far into planning the cage. I have a 383 stroker that i would like to use for this. I have done a bunch of reading on the stock trans and i do not believe it will hold up to the torque the stroker makes. while researching trans i lookied into 6 ribs and into vanagon transmission alternitaves and man there is a massive amount of people on both sides of the fence as to if either of those will handle the torque and horse power of the 383. I have looked at Mendeola's and they are out of my price range. What do you guys think? Will a setup such as a 091, 002 handle the 383 or should i start saving for something like a Mendeola?
Nice to see a fresh project! I would not run a 383 stoker on any stock style VW even after you spend about $5k to build it. The 094 is the strongest stock style but even that will be short lived with that motor. I would even hesitate with a Mendola 2D if that motor is built.
But the used market is rather soft and you could pick up a used Mendeola 2D for around $5k and you could use that. But you are talking about major power on a stock pan too. I hope you plan on doing some major upgrades.
I hate to be a heart breaker but if you can not afford a Mendeola right now you will not be able to afford the axles, hubs, cv's, shocks, and all the other components associated with running a healthy V8.
I would recommend if you are on a budget that you look at a 4 or 6 cylinder motor.
What do you plan on using the bug for? Dunes, dirt, street?
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Plan on running it on a little bit of everything. Motor is built. Let me rephrase. A 13k trans is not out of my reach. Just not practical for a while. Pan will not remain stock. Just gonna refresh it for now so the car can be made mobile again. I'm figuring I'll have around 1800 to 2500 a month to build with. I have to start over with tools and a building. After a lengthy fight through a divorce I threw my hands up and walked away with my truck and the clothes on my back. So it's taken a bit to get back to work and buy another house etc..etc.. So maybe selling the 383 and going Subaru is a better idea. I think with the 383 I'd be fixing stuff all of the time. Momma always said "Better to have less a$$ and more pants than more a$$ and not enough pants". So maybe less motor and a stronger trans and axles will yield less issues down the road. Oh and good to hear from you guys. Thanks for the input.
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Cool project. What year is the bug? I see it has the older flat windshield and swing axle. Like others have said, the 383 could be a problem with most VW trannies. I fully built 091 would work with a smaller motor, subi, ecotec, etc, if you don't shock load it (jumps, whoops at high speed, dump the clutch to wheelie, etc). A good place to find a used 091 already built is glamisdunes.com or race desert.
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Plan on running it on a little bit of everything. Motor is built. Let me rephrase. A 13k trans is not out of my reach. Just not practical for a while. Pan will not remain stock. Just gonna refresh it for now so the car can be made mobile again. I'm figuring I'll have around 1800 to 2500 a month to build with. I have to start over with tools and a building. After a lengthy fight through a divorce I threw my hands up and walked away with my truck and the clothes on my back. So it's taken a bit to get back to work and buy another house etc..etc.. So maybe selling the 383 and going Subaru is a better idea. I think with the 383 I'd be fixing stuff all of the time. Momma always said "Better to have less a$$ and more pants than more a$$ and not enough pants". So maybe less motor and a stronger trans and axles will yield less issues down the road. Oh and good to hear from you guys. Thanks for the input.
This is very true. I have always oversized the tranny to the engine. Much more fun and less breakage.
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It is a 1970. I don't know a bunch about them. I know it has a motor out of a 74. Was file injected that was converted to carb. I think swing axle means it has tubes on both sides right? Mine has axles. Maybe someone changed it from original. I might have a good deal on a split window bug that I might pick up. Not sure yet. Really in the end all I am gonna use is the body off the bug. Like the idea of shutting the doors and staying out of the elements. Also the idea of street legal is cool. Thinking subi motor with an 094 would be an ok setup.
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It is a 1970. I don't know a bunch about them. I know it has a motor out of a 74. Was file injected that was converted to carb. I think swing axle means it has tubes on both sides right? Mine has axles. Maybe someone changed it from original. I might have a good deal on a split window bug that I might pick up. Not sure yet. Really in the end all I am gonna use is the body off the bug. Like the idea of shutting the doors and staying out of the elements. Also the idea of street legal is cool. Thinking subi motor with an 094 would be an ok setup.
You are right, I looked too quick, it is an IRS tranny. 5:
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It is a 1970. I don't know a bunch about them. I know it has a motor out of a 74. Was file injected that was converted to carb. I think swing axle means it has tubes on both sides right? Mine has axles. Maybe someone changed it from original. I might have a good deal on a split window bug that I might pick up. Not sure yet. Really in the end all I am gonna use is the body off the bug. Like the idea of shutting the doors and staying out of the elements. Also the idea of street legal is cool. Thinking subi motor with an 094 would be an ok setup.
If you are doing the dirt and street only you could even get away with something like an ecotec. My buddy ran a big baja bug with a Tatum billet A arm front end with a stock ecotec and it ran great in the dirt and to the swap meet. It did struggle in the dunes though. Too bad you weren't looking a couple months ago. I had a built 091 and 2.0 subie for sale that would have been perfect.
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It is a 1970. I don't know a bunch about them. I know it has a motor out of a 74. Was file injected that was converted to carb. I think swing axle means it has tubes on both sides right? Mine has axles. Maybe someone changed it from original. I might have a good deal on a split window bug that I might pick up. Not sure yet. Really in the end all I am gonna use is the body off the bug. Like the idea of shutting the doors and staying out of the elements. Also the idea of street legal is cool. Thinking subi motor with an 094 would be an ok setup.
thumbs up on subi/built 094 or091 .
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I wish i would have had this project back then. I would have been interested in your old setup. Subi it is then. I can order the stuff to build the 094 and build it myself. From what i have read so far the 094 is the easiest to build due to not needing specialized jigs or tools.
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Thinking about going this route for the front end and a few other elements of the bug. I like the look of the A-Arms. In the end the idea is i want to be able to take the body off without a lot of disassembly. I want to be able to put the body on and keep all the elements out. I seen the black one with a Tatum front end you were talking about. I like the loos and stance of that thing.
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I wish i would have had this project back then. I would have been interested in your old setup. Subi it is then. I can order the stuff to build the 094 and build it myself. From what i have read so far the 094 is the easiest to build due to not needing specialized jigs or tools.
My dad bought my old setup to put in is car and he may be interested in selling it cause he is not sure about going back out to the desert due to heath issues. Its still sitting on the garage floor if you are interested I can ask him.
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Yes ask him for me please. That would be awesome. Sorry to hear about the health issues with your dad. I hope everything works out ok and will keep you guys in our prayers.
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This is the one my buddy built
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2649.0 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2649.0)
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Thinking about going this route for the front end and a few other elements of the bug. I like the look of the A-Arms. In the end the idea is i want to be able to take the body off without a lot of disassembly. I want to be able to put the body on and keep all the elements out. I seen the black one with a Tatum front end you were talking about. I like the loos and stance of that thing.
Are you going to design yourself or buy an A arm front end ready to go?
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Designing it myself. Just want to do it a little different than the norm. Which is why those on the red car caught my eye.
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Funny enough I have that car as my background on my laptop. The black bug your buddy built. I like the stance of that thing. It's def a sweet ride.
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this should be a good build!
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I am hoping it will be. It will be a slow one for sure. Got to buy all new fab tools for this build. Nasty divorce took care of ALL of my tools. Did not take care of the snap-on bill though. LOL Will get there though. I know this is an RC car but i think im going to do my roof rack like this and mount my LED light bar on the front of it.
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Hey Dsrace.. will these A-Arms work? Or is this some kind of proof of concept?
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i don't know if that's a concept design but looks like a pic in a shop. will they work.....yes if built correctly. are they over kill for sand....yes imo but not a bad thing either it really comes down to need or whats available.
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if i were to guess i would guess the uppers are like that for room for the shocks and clearence of the hood in a limited space area. that's my opinion and cannot say for sure because i know nothing about that build.
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Arm design / placement doesn't really boltz.
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read through this thread and see what idea's you get. the one punkur posted is a damn nice build and that red one looks good too.
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2143.0 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2143.0)
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Thanks DS. I've read through that build log probably 5 times. Biggest thing I'm waiting on is for work to pick back up. Everything oil and gas related is stupid slow right now. Every time I think it's gonna turn around it flat lines again. This company I am with has been real good to me. Loyalty binds me to them for now. But even it has its limits. Maybe next week will be better. *fingers and toes crossed*
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Good talking with you last night Boltz. I hope I helped clear up some questions so you have a better idea of what you want to do. Cant wait to see where you take the build
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May all go well, blotz. I hate that the one thing that would pick up work for you, rising gasoline and natural gas prices, would have a negative effect on most others.
I love A arm bugs, so I can't wait to see it run! I know, not as much as you!
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Wishing you the best results on the project!
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Ok so work looks to be picking back up finally. Thank God. It was great talking to you to Punkur67. I think I have a more clear idea of where I am going. Power plant will definitely be the 2.5 turbo subi I acquired. Now to decide on trans set up. Has anyone hear heard of Subagears? They make a locker and reverse cut ring and pinion for the stock subi 5 speed. I'll either go that way or build out an 094. Got some 3x5 trailing arms on they way and possibly an entire Baja bug. Depends if I can make the trip to Cali worth it. One thing is for sure. I want to do this one right. I've given myself about a two year window to finish is. Not gonna rush it. So updates will keep coming just not at a fast pace. Not gonna sacrifice quality over a desire to go play. It will pay off in the end.
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Guy on MBN using subi trans with his subi motor. I think he copied there idea, but removing the diff that sends power to RWD in car replace with a locker and a custom cover plate. Guessing still need diff gearing for the offroad, but it was pretty slick. How it compares on price, or reliability??
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Not sure how it compares. That's why I was asking around about it. Seems solid. The trans can be had for about $400. The kit from them is about $2300. Definitely gonna do some more research.
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The 5 speed would be nice but i would hate to spend $3k on a trans that may or may not work. It seems like a big gamble to me. I would definitely like to see how it would hold up though. Have you contacted the company to see what its capable of?
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AND if it didn't work out it would be a major job to re-do it.
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I would save a little more money up and go with one of these two options
https://weddleindustries.com/transaxles/vw-transaxles
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I would save a little more money up and go with one of these two options
https://weddleindustries.com/transaxles/vw-transaxles
100% agree. This one would be my choice . 094 4-Speed Racing Transaxle, base price - $5495
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Yep I agree. Not sure I want to be a ginnea pig for this. Kind of pricey to blazing the trail for a new idea. Like I said. I got plenty of time on this build. No rush. I think I will just stash away until I can get a built 094. Or buy one and build it up. So with that decided. How hard is it to build an 094? Is there special tools or jigs that I will need? I know on the 091 there is a jig that is needed to tear into it completely.
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SFAIK,there are no special jigs needed to build an 094. A jig or a modified case MUST be used to setup an 091.
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That's what I thought. Thanks Fabr
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Ok so I think I have the trans option hammered out. Gonna go with a mega sand 4 speed for rear engine. Hey Fast what's your take on a megasand? Gonna use it as an all around bug. Some off-road/sand/street use. Didn't you use to run a megasand? How do you think it will hold up? Power will be a stock turbo Subaru.
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DSrace is using one in his swap over, hes been doing lots of research. He may even turn loose of the extra one he has?
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That's the one I am getting. The rear engine one that he has. Talked to him for about 5 hours. Great fella to shoot the sh!t with and he has a metric ton of knowledge. He is gonna build my front end. Been going over ideas with him about it. I think secretly he wants a Baja Bug. He just doesn't want to commit to the dark side. Maybe he will catch the "Bug". Lol pun intended
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Maybe with some luck he will get the "Bug". Lol
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Anyone else know anything about mega sand transmissions while we are waiting for Fast to chime in?
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Not me.
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Great!! I had a hunch that was it. If we drink when we talk one of the phones dies! LOL
Theres a bunch of them running in Utah and Idaho. Some left in Glamis area too.
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Well I can't promise I'll make any trips this year. Or maybe not next year. Gonna go nice and slow and do this thing right
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Well I can't promise I'll make any trips this year. Or maybe not next year. Gonna go nice and slow and do this thing right
Always the best plan.
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I agree. I want this thing to be amazing.
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Maybe with some luck he will get the "Bug". Lol
i've got the bug but it's not for a bug ;) ;) ;D ;D rofl rofl but i do like some of the builds i have seen just can't afford two money pits like fabr :D :D saving up for a bigger money pit on the down low so it's a surprise some day LMAO LMAO
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and you need to grab a quad and come hang out by the fire for a few more ideas on one of our dune trips. fabr and fast have a lot of good info they can down load on you but might want to check the weather forecast before you run over this time LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO ;) ;)
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Lol. Weather forecast was good the last time I headed that way. It didn't update with freezing temps and possible blizzard like conditions until I was about an hour away from getting there. Nothing screams good ole times like having an electric heater inside your sleeping bag. rofl
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Needless to say that trip did not sell me on playing in the sand. All I could think was "omg what did I get myself into with these crazy fookers" and "these are some dedicated folks right here" even still despite a wheel flying off the trailer, single digit temps, freezing rain, a tent that leaked and did nothing to protect us from the frigid wind, the buggy breaking down, and going on the coldest ride in history with fast, we had a blast. I had to sign the strap of shame when fast towed us back in. But lucky for me I was shivering so badly that you will never be able to read my name. Lmao
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Yup,that trip sucked big time for all of us.
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this is a pic from that trip.... some of us stayed and rode lol then one nice day for the whole trip when the sun came out..
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi218.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc317%2Fdsrace%2Fclay4.jpg&hash=3a9e59f2a4a7a6a408a2d680118aa75e338ba20d) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/dsrace/media/clay4.jpg.html)